Memory loss and other strange phenomena

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Wilbur, Jul 4, 2017.

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  1. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron with Honors

    I'm not sure whether this topic has been discussed before on the board: if so, apologies for starting a new thread.

    I'm just wondering whether anyone experienced memory loss or other strange, related phenomena, during or after their time in Scn. Let me explain (as best as I can) some strange things that I have experienced. I'm curious as to whether the symptoms sound familiar to anyone.

    Just after I left staff in Scn, I noticed that my ability to recall things was deteriorating, and my thinking wasn't as clear as it had previously been. I was only in my early 20s. I had started smoking cigarettes around that time. Although the ED of my local org insisted that the memory deterioration was because of my out-ethics irresponsibility, leaving staff. I knew that was bullshit, and attributed it to the smoking. However, most smokers that I ask don't think that their memory deteriorated after they started smoking (ha, perhaps they simply can't remember). Has anyone else experienced this after starting smoking? Or after leaving staff/SO/Scientology?

    Another strange set of things I have experienced on several occasions (which I think is somehow related to the above): one is, I am looking for something. I look all over the desk for it. It's not there. I search the desk again. It's definitely not there. Then upon looking for a third time, I see that it is RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. Somehow, my perception apparatus just ignored the fact that it was there, like in a hypnotic stage act where the hypnotist tells the subject that someone/thing isn't there. I have a friend with a very sharp mind and very good memory. When I spend time with her (which is very often) it is SIMPLY IMPOSSIBLE for me to be RIGHT. I suggest we go to X and then to Y. She knows a more efficient route (and is right). I make a simple and obviously right statement about something. She contradicts me immediately, without a moment's thought, and as soon as she says it, I know that she is right, and I was wrong. It will happen every few minutes. It has gotten to the stage where I dare not venture an opinion, or make a decision, about anything in her presence. Then there will be strange synchronicities. For example, I will be about to say something on a topic we were not talking about. Before I open my mouth, she will say something on the same topic, that makes whatever I was about to say wrong. It makes me feel like a paranoid schizophrenic. Because this happens so often, and so predictably, that the most 'logical' explanation is that I am in some kind of matrix, and somebody is trying to do me in by feeding my thoughts to this other person, and giving them the thoughts needed to make me wrong. I often stay quiet and analyse what just happened. Sometimes there is an explanation. Sometimes, I have to conclude that this person is doing something supernatural. Not because I necessarily believe that is the case. But simply because, as Sherlock Holmes would say, when you have ruled out all likely explanations, then whatever you are left with is the true explanation, no matter how unlikely it is. And it ISN'T A PLEASANT EXPERIENCE. It happens ALL THE TIME.

    The person herself seems completely unaware she is doing it. She can't help it. In exasperation, I have pointed it out on several occasions. The result: it gets WORSE. She does it more frequently. I find this truly bizarre. It even extends to things that simply CAN'T be the result of a mental computation (though her mind seems to be like that of a computer). She will make a guess about something (for example, where a place we have never been to is: do we turn right or left?). Her guess will always be right. I quiz her about how she knew that. "It was just a guess". I ask her, did she have some information I didn't have. "No".

    I now fully understand what it must be like to be a paranoid schizophrenic. I don't think I am one, because usually this person and me both agree on what just happened. The only difference is that I see that what happened just made me wrong, whereas the other person doesn't necessarily know what I was thinking just before she opened her mouth.

    I know that this sounds bananas. Has anyone else experienced something like this?

    The interesting thing is that the person to whom I refer would, by Scientology criteria, be an ideal person. Enthusiastic, very able to get things done, smart, perceptive [EDIT: 'perceptive' is an understatement: she once went out. Before she got back, I picked my wallet up off the table, went to a nearby shop, bought something, came back, and put my wallet back on the table. As soon as she returned, she knew I'd been out, because my wallet had moved a few inches on the table], works on a task until it is done, high level of ethics, etc. Apart from the above, the only negative thing I can say about the person is that she is very stingy in giving praise. And CAN'T CONCEIVE of ever being wrong. But those weird synchronicities tell me there is more to it than that...

  2. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Well, I'll comment on the visual aspect - in a book called On Being Certain, the author discusses that problem. It is the way the mind works, how it processes images. It is similar to watching a movie, you have individual static images that the mind blends together to make motion. I have had multiple experiences like that, such as reading a sentence, seeing a word, and suddenly it changes from the one I thought was there to the one that was actually there. It is similar to those video algorithms that only show the changes and keep the background static. The other day I was looking for the airgap cover for my dishwasher that I had removed - I looked in vain for the silver cap, only to see it 15 min later - it was white. My preconceived notion of what it should have looked like prevented me from seeing the actual thing.

    He discusses this aspect in baseball how a batter will see the pitch and try to anticipate where it will arrive, so the mental pictures come in out of order, then reorder / smooth themselves into a consistent motion. He explained it better than I am doing, but it is not an unknown phenomenon.

    As to the memory stuff - look for a book called "Why isn't my Brain Working?" on amazon - I started taking some of the vites he recommended to good effect. Another was the book on AHHD by Dr. Amen. If you look online, no doubt, someone posted a debunking of it or claiming it isn't very effective, however that may be, the vites worked for me. C'est la Vie.

  3. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron with Honors

    Thanks Mimsey. I really appreciate your recommendations. I've just ordered the first book you suggested, after reading your post. Hopefully it will be useful.

  4. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Hi W,

    I've had some similar problems, yes.

    Especially.....looking for something as you describe, happens occasionally.

    I'm off to work right now, so can't post more....

    But for me....Yes, I've got lots of unusual phenomenon happening....AFTER I LEFT the cult. Really devastating stuff to a person.

    I was in for 27 years...and out now, since about 16 years out. I was about 45 years old when I am now 62.

    I think age might play a factor....?

    But my situation has been like chinese water torture or "death by a thousand cuts" other words, one tiny doubt or "problem" over and over again for 16 years....and there is accumulated damage.

    Schizophrenia....? Well, I have many of the symptoms.....But, I have read that for a 45 year old is VERY unusual to develop schizophrenia..."over night."

    So....coupled with being in the Cult....and my certainty that what problems are happening are related to the Cult.....then no, I don't think a label of schizophrenia is proper. ( Even if the symptoms are there....)

    I would point out that you may be contacted via PM....and offered help. Some here on ESMB do this. I would say be very wary of this. But to be fair...its only happened twice for me. But others here do continually offer "other avenues" of therapy of a sorts...

    What ever happens, your life will go on....

    I find that generally speaking....this sort of discussion does not happen here on ESMB.

    Most are stating that the Cult was all fake.....and process "changes" were all fake...

    Just thought I'd point that out now.

    So far, I have not found a solution to my on going problems in this area....and have for the most part, have stopped looking for them.

    But I am glad you posted about them....and that I am not the only one suffering from "unusual phenomenon..."

    All the best,
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  5. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    As far as this girl you mentioned always being right....and saying what you have been thinking....

    Well...if you were thinking it .....then you were first.

    To is just too complex for anyone to always "be right."

    When you look at the economic differences....and all the strata of fields of endeavor that life acts in and upon.....Sciences, Arts, Business...and Labor...and would be impossible for one to "always be right...."

    Certainly the CEO of any business does not look at things the same way a man working on that Company's loading dock does.....

    Hobbies....and weekend sports activities....and or pleasure outings.....WoW.....what a diverse selection there is.

    Just one simple hobby.....the depths that one can plumb.....say in a "music listening system..." would easily fill a big library....just for that one topic alone.

    Life is just to multi-faceted and to complex for what you are saying to "happen...." IMO.
  6. clamicide

    clamicide Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well, as far as memory. Trauma can do that stuff. PTSD from the cult messed with my memory big time. I think, additionally, having to date and locate and recall stuff that showed up on the meter whether it was true or not helped to further scramble me. I didn't put much credence in PTSD after the cult--it wasn't until I saw the fMRIs of folks who have it that it became very real that it was something physiological happening and not "just case". Unloading the cult language and forcefully relearning English helped open my brain up and things improved over time greatly.

    Unfortunately, I was assaulted right at the end of April. I was knocked out in the incident. Now, luckily, I do see a therapist regularly (found that is basic self-care that I need on the job that I work currently) and have been through a bit of unpacking of trauma and effects before, so I'm not caught off-guard, but it's been rough. Although, there is some effects from the actual impacts to my skull, the doctors think most of what I've been going through is my PTSD sort of reactivated. My memory has been TERRIBLE!!! I've been back at work, but I'm keeping a notebook by my side (when I remember it) to note down what I need to do. I've lost 3 sets of earbuds and a set of headphones and some of stupid mistakes I've been making? Egads... it's almost demoralizing, but I am familiar with it now and I can see the improvements again.

    As far as the stuff with your friend--I might chime in later when I get time (I'm on my lunch).

    Ha! As I was finishing this up, a co-worker asked me for our bank and I could not remember it for a good couple minutes -- and I had called to check my balance just a few hours ago. You kind of have to roll with it or it can really piss ya off... it is what it is.
  7. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    I think it happens occasionally to most of us losing our keys or whatever it is and it's right in front of our nose. Just never saw it. Maybe we're so tied up in our thoughts at the time we aren't really looking and seeing at the same time.
    Not necessarily a post cult thing and stress makes us operate less optimally sometimes as well. If it is due to ongoing stress I'd be looking at what is behind it. Certainly, post cult stress has played havoc with a number of members here as well.

    As for your "friend", she doesn't seem to have a lot of respect for you.

    My sister in law has a similar thing. She doesn't suffer fools (people like that aren't usually much better than that either, lol) and thinks no one knows it like she does. I have worked for many bosses like that who have developed or always have had ego problems. It seems to be there are many people in the world just like that. "You're wrong, I'm right" types. I usually find them to be toxic personalities, best to be left to their own devices. The trouble is, they leave you feeling pretty worthless and they see nothing wrong with pulling your spirits down.

    Got to go to work now. Catch up later....
  8. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    This maybe only seems outrageous to someone who doesn't appreciate the spiritual side of human life and thinks it's only bodies interacting. Consider a human being as having all sorts of energetic "streamers" etc around them, and it's not so strange.

  9. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    I don't think anyone has "solved" or figured out what this phenomenon or spiritual structure might be....

    But, this is one idea about it....
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  10. Leland

    Leland Crusader


    IMO, most of ESMB is about stopping the Cult now.....


    What happened to people when they were in the Cult......and getting over it, "peeling the layers off" once out.

    But very little if any at all about what I am interested in....which would be some sort of "spiritual" ( theta really....because there is nothing spiritual with the Cult's "theta" ) attacks or "fair gaming" after one leaves....spiritually.

    Most would, I assume say it doesn't exist. Perhaps it doesn't. But I suffer none the less...from what I perceive to be just such attacks.

    Anyway....I wanted to make a couple statements... "hide something from you" that is in plain view.....WoW...what a stupid game to play...if "one is playing it on you."

    If it is me it goes much deeper. It would IMO have an entirely different cause distress.....disable....even to a slight degree...which is the beginning of "the wedge in." Done year after becomes more "wobbly."

    So....what is the solution? I don't know.

    Paul, the guy that posted above has pissed me off numerous times. He has a "therapy" that he promotes here all the time.

    Anyway, Paul.....for you to state as an ("everyone knows" fact in your post ) that.....Oh, gee, don't you know you have spiritual streamers emanating from your body.... is just the type of crazy shit I'd expect from "help" for someone posting in distress to what is happening to them, after the Cult.

    Your post really pisses me off. Typical Hubbard type stuff....(guru type stuff....)

    "Oh....everything will be OK, if you just don't think of the work Hippopotamus...." OF COURSE....on immediately thinks of the word......
    One gets into a confusion....on gets "wobbly"....which is just the purpose of such a statement.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  11. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    There was a long time member/poster here named Arnie Lemur....or something like that. He was continually stating that we were all hypnotized....( from being in the Cult...)

    Anyway, he was banned and no longer posts here.

    All I am saying is this is a touchy subject area here.
  12. strativarius

    strativarius Comfortably Numb

    Oh yeah, I remember him. Wasn't he from Madagascar?

  13. Hypatia

    Hypatia Pagan

    It's not the same for everyone. But re memory loss in general, I've heard many times that trauma, shock and personal pain can cause a person to forget or repress memories.
  14. strativarius

    strativarius Comfortably Numb

    I wouldn't say I've experienced any more trauma, shock and personal pain than the average person, but what a joy it must be to have a fully-functional memory. Mine is completely shot. For want of anything better to do I watch motor racing on TV, but when the pundits talk of the move such and such a driver put on another driver at last years Spanish grand prix as if it only happened yesterday, for me it may just as well have happened in another lifetime on another planet. It's just gone.

    I can remember fragmentary incidents that happened when I was nine years old, but I can't remember the contents of a book I read three months ago. It's very depressing.
  15. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron with Honors

    Thanks for your post Leland. I've PM'd you about it (because I have included more details that I don't think it is appropriate to share on the board).
  16. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron with Honors

    Yah, this sounds familiar. I can remember being pushed around in a pram when I was a baby. But if I have a letter to post, and need to go to the toilet first, the letter comes with me to the toilet. If I put it down, I'll have forgotten I was even supposed to have posted it by the time I address the call of nature.
  17. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron with Honors

    Yes, I agree that reading people's thoughts can happen naturally. The problematic part for me is that when it happens with this person, there are always two components:

    (1) mirrors what I was thinking, in the contents of her verbal comment.
    (2) what she says will ALWAYS make what I was thinking wrong, in some way.

    It happens too often to be mere coincidence. I sometimes feel like I am an appendage of her brain. Hehehe. Oh wait...Perhaps that's it. I'm not an actual person. I'm a compartment of her brain... Blow down F/N.

    Er, I mean "I'm me!!!"

    Fuck, I thought I'd been a Scientologist. In fact, I was a NOTs case BT on someone else, osmosing someone else's life that I thought was my own.

    (although the latter is, of course, a joke, the previous contents of my postings are NOT a joke, I feel I should point out, just in case anyone thinks I'm trolling).

  18. strativarius

    strativarius Comfortably Numb

    In my case there might be some kind of autism at work. I can remember my past car registration numbers and telephone numbers and even though I don't recall ever making a conscious effort to retain it I seem to have always known my 9 character alphanumeric National Insurance number.

    Last year I amused myself one afternoon by learning how to solve quadratic equations (how sad is that?) I scoured the net for examples to solve (making them up myself would be cheating) and must have done hundreds of them. I'm buggered if I can remember how to do it now and it's not really that difficult.
  19. EZ Linus

    EZ Linus BT-free since 2003!

    Many disassociative disorders can come from PTSD, especially after being in a cult as harmful as Scientology. It's taken me almost as much time out as I was in, to recover. I'm not as messed up as I was, but I remember in the beginning having some of the symptoms you are describing. A ton of paranoia -- I will definitely admit. It manifests in all kinds of ways, but there it is. Anxiety on top of anxiety. You blow things out of proportion in your mind, it is a living hell sometimes. You don't even want to know what kinds of things I thought.

    Someone here said something that should ease your mind -- that it is very unusual, in fact, I say it is highly unlikely you are a paranoid schizophrenic. Especially in males, they are diagnosed very young, like in their teens. Thinking that other people are putting thoughts in ones head in the way a schizophrenic does would have been happening for a long time a long time ago. Don't worry about that. Trust me, I have known real schizophrenics. In my teens, my first love was diagnosed in the middle of our three year relationship.

    You're traumatized. That's what this is. Even if you think you're not traumatized, your body and mind are behaving, and playing life out, as if you are. It's very simple. This happens with people who have been in combat, victims of rape, abuse, violence, even people that have had organic loss that is profound in the context of their lives. Trauma is relevant. Women who have gone through sexual abuse will feel trauma in their bodies, whether they want to or not. Soldiers with missing limbs will have phantom pain because your body feels trauma. Your mind is no different.

    Start reading up on complex-PTSD. And if you want to know what happened to you, you might want to look into some of the psychology books on mind control, behavior manipulation, etc. (Dr. Margaret Singer). Robert J. Lifton wrote up some criteria on what makes a dangerous group. What signs to look for and/or what can start stripping you from your critical thinking skills. Learning about all that helped me to heal.
  20. EZ Linus

    EZ Linus BT-free since 2003!

    Before you go fishing for every possibility within your imagination -- deep into your "unhandled case," now I'm especially going to urge you to read Lifton's Eight Criteria, and, if you can, please read a book called, Captive Hearts, Captive Minds (Tobias and Lalich). There is also such thing as a "cult of ONE." If you don't arm yourself with knowing what you're stepping into with this chick, you may be just as vulnerable as you were when you were bait for Scientology. You are vulnerable right now. That's the worst time to be hanging out with someone that is "always right." Or worse yet, that YOU think is always right. I say this because I care, bruthuh!

    The best thing we need to do for ourselves is to learn what our actual identity is and what our intuition is. We have to make new decisions that lead to concrete, real things. Real answers. OR, maybe even more importantly, be okay when there are NO answers. Not everything has an answer in the real world. It's a trick to live that way, but it's better.

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