Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Michel, Mar 10, 2010.

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  1. Michel

    Michel Patron with Honors

    Hello! This thread is to answer Tommy Davis’s glibness.

    I met Tommy during my second EPF in the Sea Org (actually a 2 months Boot Camp type of EPF), he was eating beans and rice every day, washing our clothes, doing the worst MEST work you can imagine, doing pumps up for hours...because he fucked up a "VIP" cycle.

    At that time he wasn’t so proud to be a Sea Org Member, I can tell you.

    Now, let’s talk about cancer and suicide on Solo Nots. Here are some data for you guys.

    There is a tag status for each Solo Nots auditor:

    Green tag: audit 4 to 6 sessions daily and comes on time for his 6 months check.

    Grey tag: audit less than 4 sessions daily and doesn't come on time for his 6 month check.

    Orange tag: Not allowed to solo audit because of out ethics situation.

    Purple tag: Not allowed to audit because of illness or sickness.

    Black tag: Disaffected with the church.

    See the way it works? One starts the level with a Green tag then, depending on his "ability to be Cause over Life" one keeps his Green tag or, follow the dwindling spiral to Black tag.

    There are about 5,300 Solo Nots Auditors worldwide and about(depending on their current status):

    1,000 Green tags
    1,100 Grey tags
    900 Orange tags
    800 Purple tags
    1,500 Black tags

    The 10,000 on Solo Nots is just a dream. There is only 1,000 of them auditing regularly.

    I was Solo Nots D of P Europe and i personally met the following Solo Nots Auditors. They were all with advanced cancer:

    • Roberto B. – Italy
    • Antonella B. – Italy
    • Beppe G. – Italy
    • Sonia B. – Italy
    • Pierluigi G. – Italy
    • Bernard C. – Switzerland
    • Jo R. - Switzerland
    • Tasa D. – France
    • Helene M. – France

    There is more, but I do not remember their names.

    Before I blew the Sea Org in November 2006,two of them died of committed suicide; Jo R. and Beppe G.

    I don’t know if the other ones are still alive.

    The majority of the 800 Purple tags and 1,500 Black tags are with cancer, HIV, diabetes and non optimum physical conditions.

    The majority of the 900 Orange tags committed financial irregularities to be able to “pay for services and/or donations” to the Cult.

    Rex Fowler is a typical Orange tag product of the Cult.

    You all know the PTS/SP tech “theory”, right?

    How many of them had to disconnect from their family and friends because they where the ”SP”?

    Why, after an entire bridge people are still sick, ill, criminal, commit suicide, etc..?

    Maybe they didn’t find the real SP yet..... or, if they did, they invalidated the read.

    At one point every body on Solo Nots had to do or re do the PTS/SP Course GAT.

    And the SNR C/S FSO Richard Reiss (pushed by RTC, of course) was constantly harrassing the Solo Nots C/S "because they didn't apply the PTS tech at 100%" during their C/Sing.

    Well, a cancerous tumor is not detectable by a SN C/S as far as i know!

    I can attest! Beppe G. had a cancerous tumor the size of an egg in his brain while at Flag to "Attest to OT7"! I went with him to the Clearwater Hospital. He was sent back to Italy right away by RTC....

    Imagine the Flap if Beppe died in the middle of the Solo Nots HGC!

    These data should be widely disseminated. It’ s not a joke. These guys are really in danger.


    PS: the medical associations should be aware of this data. Scientology technology doesn't cure cancer....when a cancer isn't detected on time, it's too late. Unfortunalely, from a Scientologist view point, a doctor is considered a charlatan.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2010
  2. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Thanks for posting this, Michel, it is VERY important data.
  3. Carmel

    Carmel Crusader

    Hey Michel, I've been reading the other thread where you've provided so much info - Good on you, man! :thumbsup:

    I didn't finish OT 5, and never got onto 7 (thank God) so have nothing to contribute. I have though, observed many of my mates who have taken the road you are talking about, and I do believe that, as ya say, they *are* in danger.

    Tell us all ya know......The sort of info you are giving is invaluable, and appreciated, so keep it comin'. :)

  4. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    This is good information to have. Thanks Michel.

    I think it would be appropriate to have Anons post "Bridge Out Ahead" road signs in front of the orgs.....
  5. Michel

    Michel Patron with Honors

    I agree Panda, this is veru important data. Hope that people will use it around them.:yes:

  6. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Shit, I'll say so too! Very important info. Horrific, actually.

    One point of data that sticks out to me is the number or prevalence of Italians with cancer . . . . this is what the medical researcher types would call "statistically significant."

    No Americans on the list? It'd be interesting to know what the proportions of the whole that each national group makes up on S/NOTs.

    According to the Am. Cancer Soc. cancer accounted for 23.1% of all deaths in the USA in 2006. So one should not be too up tight about the number indicated above for cancer cases on S/NOTs . . . the eleven cited out of the 5,300 on the level is nowhere near 23%.

    Be interesting to get an accurate up to date actual number to then compare ratios.

    In any event, this fact of cancer incidence certainly blows the claim to deliver "cause over life" with that tech line up to be a false claim:yes:

    The least I'd expect from getting to the "top of the Bridge" would be the ability to correctly manage a body and keep it healthy!

  7. Michel

    Michel Patron with Honors

    Good for you mate! You left right on time and saved lot of money and time. Hope that this data will serve in Australia to shut the Cult down for good!:happydance:

  8. Michel

    Michel Patron with Honors

    Thanks Roger. I was Solo Nots D of P Europe, that's why i am listing only the european guys i knew. Unfortunately, there were also US guys with cancer. For a real figure you could apply the 23% to the Purple tags and Black tags. The number of death should be pretty close.

    As you said, at the top of the bridge one should be at least healthy...physically, economically and most of all spiritually.

    I't's absolutly NOT the case.:no:

  9. Michel

    Michel Patron with Honors

    Yes Div6! It's a great idea! And how about a stat graph showing the Number of Scientologists with cancer.....in Full Affluence!

  10. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Thanks, Michel . . . . you give explicit further, critical info.

    You might add then, what was the number of Europeans on S/NOTs you were DofP for. Then we'd have a very clear comparative number.

    You may not know, but I was one of the very early S/NOTs people . . . like within a matter of weeks or a couple of months of it being released.

    In all I did around 12 years on it . . . I continued it after the shit hit the fan in 1983 and eventually being declared SP. So you see I have a keen interest in your info here. :yes:

    The other side of the coin though, is that I have life-long been diligent in caring for the body and being truly responsible for it (I'm and old champion athlete . . . that helps :yes:)

    I wonder if you saw my postings (several) on the "How Dangerous is New OTVII S/NOTs" thread here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=370493#post370493

  11. Arthur Dent

    Arthur Dent Silver Meritorious Patron

    Perhaps the names of the dead could be read from a megaphone at every protest....

    Unfortunately, solo nots people are not allowed to discuss anything with each other so the dissemination of how one feels is just not possible from within.

    My observation is that I see a lot of PR from OTVIIIs and VIIs. I know they are broke or have problems or disturbing disconnections or illness or are distancing themselves. On can definitely see the truthful reads if you do not invalidate them, that's for sure! And that can result in freedom.... :whistling:
  12. TalleyWhacker

    TalleyWhacker Patron with Honors

    While I do joke often, as it has its own theraputic benefits, the extent of the spiritual rape of this whole thing is just tragic.
    Thank you for the reports.
    The subject of Scientology and everything relating to it is like an infinite onion; it just has layer after layer to it. And just when you think you've reached the core, there's always another layer.
    No one could concieve of or write a book that encompassed the whole thing and what has transpired on all the levels of it. It just wouldn't be believable.
    After a lifetime of having it be a part of my life, I am truly looking forward to a complete closure--I hope and believe that's possible.
  13. Michel

    Michel Patron with Honors

    Great Roger! I had about 1,200 Solo Nots Auditors under me, located in Italy, France, Switzerland, Spain, Greece, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Holland,Belgium, Canada, South America, Russia and Hungary. About 250 Green tags and 300 Grey Tags. The rest were off the level.

    Yossy Charny had also about 1,200 located in Australia, England and Germany.

    Laurie Walghren, Debra Steiner and Nancy Lowe were handling the USA with about 2,900 Solo Nots Auditors.

    Hope this data will help understand the mess we were in. I am also SP declared by the Cult because of my blow. For me it doesn't mean anything. My eternity and freedom belongs to me. No Cult can change that!:no:

  14. Michel

    Michel Patron with Honors

    You are right Arthur. One thing i want to talk about is the "status" that surround OT7 and OT8. I saw so many of them PRing around because of this status. And to be completely honest, i did the same when i was a public. You know the truth Arthur. They are in a lot of trouble...but there is the "status".

    Good luck mate.

  15. Student of Trinity

    Student of Trinity Silver Meritorious Patron

    It seems unlikely that OT VII could actually raise people's chances of getting cancer. It just also seems very unlikely that it does anything to lower those chances. People on OT VII are probably older, it seems, just because of how long it takes to reach that level, so their incidence of cancer may be higher just because of this — cancer rates rise with age.

    It's also possible that people who know they have cancer, or other serious health problems, are somewhat more motivated to start and stick with a program that promises eternal benefits. So this might make for a higher cancer rate among OT VIIs, but it wouldn't be caused by the program itself.

    The point of course is still just that OT levels do not guarantee health.
  16. pollywannacracker

    pollywannacracker Patron Meritorious

    This is so very true.

    My thought process runs this way.

    I know OTVII's and OTVIII's who are not able to keep their bodies healthy. This runs the gamut of poor eyesight that is progressively getting worse due to the normal aging process, to skin cancers, to ruptured discs that still leave the OT in pain even when surgery was performed, to migraines, and so forth.

    So if the smaller illnesses and out body rudes are not getting better with progession up the bridge, how the heck do they think that they can keep from getting cancer let alone curing cancer based upon LRH tech?

    Jus' sayin'...:duh:

  17. Michel

    Michel Patron with Honors

    Hello Talley, i hope so. We just need to continue to speak out about what we saw, what we experienced, what we observed as illegal in Scientology. I have been betrayed by Scientology, DM, LRH. Where is the religion i was looking for? It's definitely not this one. Treating people like they are treated in Scientology, by Sea Org members, is dictatorship, not religion, period. And dictatorship is unacceptable.

    Keep making great jokes my friend. It's extremely therapeutic!:happydance:

  18. Arthur Dent

    Arthur Dent Silver Meritorious Patron

    I agree, Student of Trinity, with ot levels neither here nor there regarding health, or at least no double blind studies to show it. And never will be...

    And, yes, people are older on these levels and also they have had years and years of brainwashing and stops on what they believed to be their bridge to total freedom. If you are "free" at some point on your bridge surely at some other point you will be stopped or harassed or invalidated. I would like to meet one person who has not experienced any insanity while on the bridge. Just one. Enough of this has got to increase one's odds of not doing well, illness, poor morale, less communication, etc. LRH says cancer is a arcx on the 2d. True or false, who knows.... but how many people have suffered through disconnections, forced abortions, being arc broken by mgmt, ethics officers/maa's, etc., being prevented from speaking in one way or another. Just observing another person's dilema in ethics is enough to train you not to speak, to hold it in, to shut up. How healthy a life is that?! In the 2d book, (out of print???) Hubbard also says that the only abberative factor on the 2d is a cut communication and gives the example of the child witnessing his parents fighting and then being told not to tell. Not that it is directly related to the 2d but we are always told not to tell whether by example or outright intimidation. So, the people with the most experiences of that are on the ot levels (as well as long time sea org members). :ball: How can they expect freedom? I guarantee you the ONLY reason OTs won't speak up is fear.
    Fear of losing their friends. Fear of more communication being cut. So they cannot get off the :treadmill:. Thank you for speaking out about this Michel. It is very valuable.
  19. Michel

    Michel Patron with Honors

    Hello Student of Trinity, Solo Nots Auditors are in the 40's up to the 70's. One point to be aware of is that we are talking a lot about OT7 and OT8 with cancer. But, i do not know of any OT5 with cancer. OT5 is called NOTs audited, which means that this level is done with a CL9 auditor. Solo NOTs is the same material but audited in solo. Something to investigate i think.

  20. Michel

    Michel Patron with Honors

    I agree PWC! The main problem i see is the complete disconnection from the medical area. Why the Solo Nots Auditors do not go to the doctor more often? Because they are "taught" that they can handle anything and everything in session!:no:

    Plus, if they are sick = PTS = find the SP! Why then do you need a doctor?

    What for? The "Tech" will handle everything, isn't?:duh:


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