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MU's & other BS

Gizmo

Rabble Rouser
OK, dictionaries were around hundreds of years before hubbard hisself stole "his" study tech.

Since leaving scn I find every once in a while I come across a word that the way I understood it doesn't fit the way I'm reading something.
Preponderance is an example. Abtuse is another.

But I no longer feel I have to look up every word I do not know the meaning of & I don't fall asleep or go blank. ( I've used my dictionary 3 times in the last 20 odd years ).

So, I just ignore "MU's" & haven't fallen off the earth yet.

Anybody else out there manage to stay awake in the real world ?

LOL !
 

Leon-2

Patron Meritorious
Ah! So that's all that is required in order to succeed inn life and learning then, is it? Managing to stay wake. Hmmm.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Yup. That's pretty much it. Stay awake. Stay alert. Don't fall into dazes, trances, habits, patterns. Be active, loving and productive. That covers it.

None of the successful professionals I know had to learn or do anything special or any Scientology to have completely full, happy lives and families.

Everything I ever really needed to know I learned in kindergarten. :biggrin:
 

Leon-2

Patron Meritorious
Yup. That's pretty much it. Stay awake. Stay alert. Don't fall into dazes, trances, habits, patterns. Be active, loving and productive. That covers it.

None of the successful professionals I know had to learn or do anything special or any Scientology to have completely full, happy lives and families.

Everything I ever really needed to know I learned in kindergarten. :biggrin:


No no no - you've added a whole lot more to what Gizmo said. He reckons just being awake is enough to ensure success. Why go and squirrel his teachings?
 

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hubbard tried to mix any plausible excuses and distortions into hiding his cult methods . The "MUs"do not exist as he describes them ;they are a cover story for his ultra authoritarian indoctrination and covert self hypnosis and cognitive restructuring program .

I cover this here : http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/03/why-boredom-is-barrier-to-study.html

and more here :http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/01/insidious-enslavement-study-technology.html

The Mu and all the accompanying phenomena and other barriers to study are a con . You can get a lot of info on this here :http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?37203-MOCKINGBIRD-RECOMMEND-S-A-SEQUENCE-OF-STUDY
 
I actually disagree as well as a lot of professional educators.

One half of the SATs (college entrance exams) is vocabulary.

And if you have ever had to defend a thesis you'll learn quickly that you'll be questioned on the definitions you are using.

That is why dictionaries have been around long before Hubbard.

Misunderstood words exist.

Just because Hubbard was riding someone else's coattail doesn't mean the reality doesn't exist.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Dean Blair

Silver Meritorious Patron
I use the dictionary fairly frequently when I am reading about a subject that I don't know that much about. I had to look up LOL, YSCOHB, ROTFLMAO, and a bunch more texting abbreviations. Also being in the information technology field as I am I have run across lots of technical terms which required that I look up and understand the words.

Hubbard wasn't the source on using a dictionary. I had a class in 9th or 10th grade where the teacher had us clear the etymologies of words we were looking up so that we would learn the original source for the word and that can sometimes be helpful in understanding a word you don't know the meaning of.

Educators likewise have known about skipped gradients for decades which is why we have grades K-12 and then the university.

Lack of mass was always handled quite well in the schools I attended. We often went on field trips to museums, assembly lines where they make cars, and other factories. My son who is twelve likewise goes on such field trips and if you have been to a class room lately you will see all kinds of physical representations of mass.

Hubbard was just running his own case. After all he did flunk out of high school and college as well.
 
I use the dictionary fairly frequently when I am reading about a subject that I don't know that much about. I had to look up LOL, YSCOHB, ROTFLMAO, and a bunch more texting abbreviations. Also being in the information technology field as I am I have run across lots of technical terms which required that I look up and understand the words.

Hubbard wasn't the source on using a dictionary. I had a class in 9th or 10th grade where the teacher had us clear the etymologies of words we were looking up so that we would learn the original source for the word and that can sometimes be helpful in understanding a word you don't know the meaning of.

Educators likewise have known about skipped gradients for decades which is why we have grades K-12 and then the university.

Lack of mass was always handled quite well in the schools I attended. We often went on field trips to museums, assembly lines where they make cars, and other factories. My son who is twelve likewise goes on such field trips and if you have been to a class room lately you will see all kinds of physical representations of mass.

Hubbard was just running his own case. After all he did flunk out of high school and college as well.

I don't know what LOL means, but when I see LOL it makes me laugh out loud.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Gizmo

Rabble Rouser
No no no - you've added a whole lot more to what Gizmo said. He reckons just being awake is enough to ensure success. Why go and squirrel his teachings?

It looks like you are the one who added a lot to what I said just to make your "point".

Can you point out where I used the word " success " ?

What I was saying is billions of people get along just fine even after never having heard of scn.
 

Gizmo

Rabble Rouser
I actually disagree as well as a lot of professional educators.

One half of the SATs (college entrance exams) is vocabulary.

And if you have ever had to defend a thesis you'll learn quickly that you'll be questioned on the definitions you are using.

That is why dictionaries have been around long before Hubbard.

Misunderstood words exist.

Just because Hubbard was riding someone else's coattail doesn't mean the reality doesn't exist.

The Anabaptist Jacques

Yes, vocabulary is important BUT many people manage to get an education outside of scn.

I know some can blow the horn of vastly superior scn is to anything that has ever been.

BUT in the last 70 years what has scn contributed to mankind?

Look at what the world has gained in tha last 70 years & please point out the specific scientolgists that have made those huge contributions ?

And, please, the "marK' made by L Ron Hubbard is only the one in his shorts !

Yes, the self importance of L Ron the Con did somewhat dribble down to his devout followers, but, where are the accomplishments of them ?


Where is the mark of this superior way to do things other than in the imagination of those under the cult spell ?
 

Outethicsofficer

Silver Meritorious Patron
OK, dictionaries were around hundreds of years before hubbard hisself stole "his" study tech.

Since leaving scn I find every once in a while I come across a word that the way I understood it doesn't fit the way I'm reading something.
Preponderance is an example. Abtuse is another.

But I no longer feel I have to look up every word I do not know the meaning of & I don't fall asleep or go blank. ( I've used my dictionary 3 times in the last 20 odd years ).

So, I just ignore "MU's" & haven't fallen off the earth yet.

Anybody else out there manage to stay awake in the real world ?

LOL !

Yeah I manage if I read for pleasure..but if i am to study for something that may need to be applied or examined on I struggle. It seems all those years of heavy emphasis on not going past a word or symbol is still with me.
 

Gizmo

Rabble Rouser
Yeah I manage if I read for pleasure..but if i am to study for something that may need to be applied or examined on I struggle. It seems all those years of heavy emphasis on not going past a word or symbol is still with me.

yes. I am a firm beliver in one doing what they feel best for themselves in regards to their learning & not be bound by the trapping of some mickey mouse little cult cobbled together with the dregs of third rate sci fi hack.

I used a dictionary long long before I ever heard of scn. I still even now & then use a dictionary but long gone are the days of looking up so many words & playing with rubble or jacking with in clay.

Oh, speaking of clay, can anyone explain to me how somebody does a "demo" of something they don't understand ?

Think about that for just a moment !
 

Peter Soderqvist

Patron with Honors
I actually disagree as well as a lot of professional educators.

One half of the SATs (college entrance exams) is vocabulary.

And if you have ever had to defend a thesis you'll learn quickly that you'll be questioned on the definitions you are using.

That is why dictionaries have been around long before Hubbard.

Misunderstood words exist.

Just because Hubbard was riding someone else's coattail doesn't mean the reality doesn't exist.

The Anabaptist Jacques

Soderqvist1: but the difference is that Hubbard perverted the coattail!
The academia doesn't ask for definition of simple terms, nor do they claim that the only reason somebody give up his study is because of misunderstood words, etc!
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Oh, speaking of clay, can anyone explain to me how somebody does a "demo" of something they don't understand ?

Think about that for just a moment !

The bulletins talk about "working something out in clay," i.e., the process of doing the clay demo brings about the understanding. Doing a clay demo of something you understand already is a waste of time in terms of one's own understanding, although it can show another that you understand the thing.

It's like writing a non-trivial post on ESMB. I sometimes find that the subject matter becomes clearer to me as I write the thing out.

Paul
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
Definitions are arbitrary, but if two people define their terms differently, they'll talk past each other a lot. It's not true that two educated people can always communicate smoothly if they both just use the same dictionary, however. Discussing anything complicated or subtle always requires both speakers to select the same basic elements from the dictionary, and then work together to assemble the standard elements into specialized tools for the problem at hand. Meaningful discussion requires a lot more of this kind of preparatory work than one might expect. If two people have large vocabularies it can help them to hit the ground running in a discussion, because they'll be able to use a lot of specific terms and know just what each other mean. It's naive to think one can avoid all the hard work of agreeing on terms by just relying on a dictionary, though. That's like expecting a box of spare parts to jump into your car.

Over-emphasizing the value of dictionaries can even be sinister. Most words have multiple possible shades of meaning, and if you shirk the responsibility of clarifying which shades you mean, but instead throw this responsibility onto your readers, you do more than just save yourself work. You give yourself the wiggle room to switch from one shade of meaning to another without admitting it. You can even build a sort of logical Escher staircase of invalid arguments whose flaws are very hard to pin down, because at any one point there exists an interpretation of your words that makes sense at that point. For your argument to make sense at another point, though, your words will have to be interpreted differently; there is no single, consistent way to interpret your words that will let your whole discussion make sense. But if you can get your readers to believe that any possible confusions will be relieved by consulting a dictionary, then whenever they hit a point in your argument that doesn't make sense, you can just keep on sending them back to the dictionary, until they find a way to squint and twist until that point makes sense. Then on to the next point; rinse, lather, and repeat.

It's hard for most people to notice this kind of semantic runaround, and call shenanigans on it, unless they've had a fair amount of academic experience, just like it's hard to chop vegetables fast unless you've worked as a chef. It's not all that hard to be the one giving the runaround, however. If you're a glib writer talking to impressionable young people, I bet you can count on most of them just getting worn out, after enough trips to the dictionary, and deciding that you must just be smarter than they are.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
Definitions are arbitrary, but if two people define their terms differently, they'll talk past each other a lot. It's not true that two educated people can always communicate smoothly if they both just use the same dictionary, however. Discussing anything complicated or subtle always requires both speakers to select the same basic elements from the dictionary, and then work together to assemble the standard elements into specialized tools for the problem at hand. Meaningful discussion requires a lot more of this kind of preparatory work than one might expect. If two people have large vocabularies it can help them to hit the ground running in a discussion, because they'll be able to use a lot of specific terms and know just what each other mean. It's naive to think one can avoid all the hard work of agreeing on terms by just relying on a dictionary, though. That's like expecting a box of spare parts to jump into your car.

<snip>

Yes, Emmanuel Derman mentioned this in his book "My Life as a Quant".
He went from postdoc physics to Wall Street and then back to academia (Columbia).
He did mention a bit about communication difficulties between the Quants and the desk traders on terminology.
(The quants just had to implement it (Black-Scholes and other variants) into software for the desk traders.)
 
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