Narconon Associate Publicly Disassociates from all using NN & Scientology principles

Discussion in 'Narconon, Drug Free World, and Other Anti-drug Fro' started by AnonyMary, Jan 8, 2013.

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  1. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Well worth reading in full. Here is how Narconon uses Scientology and gets it's graduates to do the same.
    In this case, Narconon, A Forever Recovery and Best Drug Rehabilitation lost one of the biggest feeder lines into their programs.... David Lee and Intervention Services and Technologies

    This is a major strike against Narconon and will set the whole industry abuzz, including Narconon staffers

    Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies

    Read on for the complete statement:
    http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,12144.msg28417.html#msg28417
     
  2. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Re: Narconon Associate Publicly Disassociates from all using NN & Scientology princip

    Great statement from David Lee! :clap:


    Thanks for re-posting it here. It WAS well worth reading in full. :thumbsup:
     
  3. Ogsonofgroo

    Ogsonofgroo Crusader

    Re: Narconon Associate Publicly Disassociates from all using NN & Scientology princip

    [​IMG]

    :clap::clap::clap::clap:
     
  4. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Re: Narconon Associate Publicly Disassociates from all using NN & Scientology princip

    Another great quote from this important statement:

     
  5. ChurchOfCylontology

    ChurchOfCylontology Patron with Honors

    Re: Narconon Associate Publicly Disassociates from all using NN & Scientology princip

    Excellent, however if he was the person involved in knowingly misleading anyone that was subsequently harmed then he quite possibly has some criminal culpability to address. He better lawyer up because he's going to need it.

    He's got balls, but like almost everyone involved with any Scientology scam he's got dirty hands himself.
     
  6. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Re: Narconon Associate Publicly Disassociates from all using NN & Scientology princip

    From my understanding, I don't think that's the case but he's certainly prepared to deal with whatever may come of this. Especially from Narconon and from Per Wickstrom - the snake who operates Narconon front companies for Narconon Int, using names like A Forever Recovery and Best Drug Rehabilitation.

    David Lee stated what many staff and former staff have known all along but been afraid to say.... It's a Scientology culture at these facilities. This is the equivalent of a Debbie Cook letter to Narconon and related group peoples. Only difference is that he states his regrets for his actions. Debbie never did that.

    I wish David the best and will support him for this courageous act.
     
  7. ChurchOfCylontology

    ChurchOfCylontology Patron with Honors

    Re: Narconon Associate Publicly Disassociates from all using NN & Scientology princip

    Glad to hear that, but I hope that he talks to and offers his help to all Plaintiffs' attorneys in all current litigation against Narconon. If you could facilitate that or send the Plaintiffs' attorneys his statement, then you'd be doing those Plaintiffs a favor, and this may help him show any judge (if it ever gets to it) that he's trying to do the right thing.
     
  8. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Re: Narconon Associate Publicly Disassociates from all using NN & Scientology princip

    I'll let him know. He would make a terrific witness. I've already forwarded his statement to various attorneys. However, it would be up to David what he wants to do and when. As you know, speaking up is one thing. Getting through the ramifications is another. Everyone's journey out can be overwhelming at the start.

    Also, keep in mind that his company does interventions. They do not provide rehab services. They referred people to Narconon et al during an intervention but phased them out starting 3 years ago. Now there are no referrals to any. What he stated is based mostly on his knowledge of the program from person experience in having done it, observing other grads who became staff in the Narconon universe and also being made into a scientologist ( which he is no longer).

    The business end is different and may not be as helpful to a plaintiff's attorney as someone who recently worked for Narconon. It's been over 4 years now that he helped Per Wickstrom set up A Forever recovery - which had no Scientology and Narconon stuff - as this wwas doen when Per was on the outs with Narconon Int and lost his license at Narconon Stone Hawk. He hasn't worked for a Narconon facility in many years.

    When IST was involved, it was mainly through them referring people contacting their interventions service for help in getting a loved one willing to go to a rehab. Early on, they exclusively referred to Narconon. But that changed over the years. But when it was happening, sometimes Narconon or AFR arranged an intervention with this company for the family so they could get the sale. Sometimes the families contacted his company on referral from Narconon - in other words, they were sold that getting their loved one to a Narconon or related program was the thing to do but they needed professional help in getting the patient/student willing to go for help. Their work is geared to getting a person to be willing to change. Difficult stuff. Many people going to Narconon programs do not get there via interventions.

    His knowledge of the business end of it is important because of the quality of care issues, and fake success rate. Certainly he would be a good witness based upon his observations and knowledge. Just depends on what the attorney needs for his client's case.
     
  9. ChurchOfCylontology

    ChurchOfCylontology Patron with Honors

    Re: Narconon Associate Publicly Disassociates from all using NN & Scientology princip

    I read his entire statement after my posts and he really may want to get the counsel of an attorney for any legal exposure to his business and to himself. His business may be in interventions, but if he knew the success rate to be false and still sent people to Narconon for monetary gain then one could argue that not only did he purposefully misrepresent facts that others relied upon (civil issue), but he may have criminal and civil fraud on his hands. Again, he may want to get legal counsel before he starts elaborating on what he did/saw with Narconon and go from there. Working behind the scenes can be just as powerful in setting things right.
     
  10. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Re: Narconon Associate Publicly Disassociates from all using NN & Scientology princip

    How do you know he doesn't have legal council which he's already consulted? This is not for me to say. Rather than asking me to be a go between with him, I suggest you register to the forum there and ask your questions to him personally. I think that works out better overall. Thanks.
     
  11. 10oriocookies

    10oriocookies Patron with Honors

    Re: Narconon Associate Publicly Disassociates from all using NN & Scientology princip

    There will be no legal ramifications as his opinion of the success rate is based on what he saw. He didnt see every grad and the alcohol/drug consumption was mostly prevalent around Per Wickstrom as he himself was a binge drinker while referring people. Most centers have policy forbidding drinking at all and if caught, you get fired.

    All heresay aside, the important part is that a major revenue stream to the Church via NN has been cut off. Make no mistake about it, Narconons are the some of the fattest cash cows of Scientology. Targeting them is smart if you want to deal a blow to the Church.
     
  12. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

  13. Wants2Talk

    Wants2Talk Silver Meritorious Patron

    Re: Narconon Associate Publicly Disassociates from all using NN & Scientology princip

    Oh blow me!
     
  14. TG1

    TG1 Angelic Poster

  15. Disinfected

    Disinfected Patron Meritorious

    Re: Narconon Associate Publicly Disassociates from all using NN & Scientology princip

    Great write-up by David Lee.

    Narconon is Scientology and Scientology is, perhaps irretrievably, a reflection of Hubbard. It might have a little good or a lot of good but is shot through with lies and bad intentions and entirely covered with a layer of bullshit. That was Hubbard and that is Scientology. It is, at best, like a bad steak, some meat but laced with fat and gristle; can you take a bite without hitting something bad? Of course others will say it is actually shot through with poison. Perhaps they are right. I don't know.
     
  16. ChurchOfCylontology

    ChurchOfCylontology Patron with Honors

    Re: Narconon Associate Publicly Disassociates from all using NN & Scientology princip

    I don't know this and he probably does have some access to counsel if he has his own business. I was trained to look at some things in life from a legal standpoint and that often means that my comments or thoughts aren't popular around here. While I applaud his excellent disclosure and news, I was simply commenting to his possible exposure with his statement as excerpted here and written on the Reaching for Tipping Point blog, not knowing all of the facts.
     
  17. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Re: Narconon Associate Publicly Disassociates from all using NN & Scientology princip

    I understand your devil's advocate POV but the whole purpose of his statement and it being posted here in part, and elsewhere on the internet, was to make it as publicly accessible as possible. This is not the first statement made by a former ally of Narconon or by a graduate of the program that I have posted. Don't presume that people are not aware of consequences and have not sought consultation before posting their stories. Most plan things out, knowing how the church is.

    Most of my efforts against Narconon require I look at things from a legal viewpoint. I also have may years experience with legal matter. I am also trained to look at such matter from a legal standpoint. I don't seem to have the degree of conflict you seem to have and I think the difference is what we say, when and where.

    Perhaps you have not caught on that many here do not give a foothold to the cult by their comments and any concerns about a comment are usually discussed by PM rather than made public for that reason.
     
  18. ChurchOfCylontology

    ChurchOfCylontology Patron with Honors

    Re: Narconon Associate Publicly Disassociates from all using NN & Scientology princip

    I never underestimate that Scientology has access to the most comprehensive, expensive legal counsel with any/all things posted here, including disclosures by those with any type of business interest. I assume that Scientology throws a lot of what is said here in front of Moxon or other low level legal staff and then bumps it up the chain as needed. My piddly half-baked legal thoughts (this is not an area of law to which I have any substantive experience outside of what I learned in law school) were probably laughed at by Moxon, et al so I doubt very much that I fall into the category of giving your foe an advantage. But I will heed your advice going forward because it is not my intention to give advantages, even if by accident.
     
  19. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Re: Narconon Associate Publicly Disassociates from all using NN & Scientology princip

    Thanks.

    BTW, I've been posting on the internet about Scientology and Narconon for 6 or 7 years now and have reach thousands of thousands of articles, stories and posts during that time.

    I started collecting links to critical and important information found on the internet backin 2006 and most of the links are posted here in the sticky thread called Internet Resources on Scientology for newcomers

    I say this because in all my years of reading from 2006 on , I could not even count on one hand the number of people harassed by the church because of something they wrote on the internet. Nor do I recall any information being posted that resulted in legal problems. Most of those cases were years before when the number of effective critics was much less. I have seen a few 'anonymous exs' post comments in their introductory story threads, comments that could help the church identify who they are and cause a possible disconnection issue for them but members here are quick to point that out and do so privately to prevent further info getting on the internet. But beyond that, only Marty Rathbun seems to get any attention by the church, with their propaganda blogs taking things he says out of context. They don't want to get ties up in lawsuits. There's enough against Narconon already ongoing.

    Everyone's imput is needed and don't minimize what you know and can do to help. Just be aware that things do get monitored and it's best to PM the person your concerns rather than raise a red flag that the church might now have seen yet.
     
  20. ChurchOfCylontology

    ChurchOfCylontology Patron with Honors

    Re: Narconon Associate Publicly Disassociates from all using NN & Scientology princip

    I've been reading and posting on this site and WWP since 2008 (you have way more experience, two years and an incredible trail of personal commitment that I both admire and lack) and I do have to say that I have seen it happen at least once. If I'm remembering this correctly, during the AnonSparrow legal proceedings (I can't recall if it was the bullshit restraining order process he went through or hearing for his stalking/wearing a mask to intimidate charges), Moxon submitted Sparrow's posts on WWP to the court as proof of whatever point he was trying to make and consistently submitted supplemental filings with posts Sparrow made on WWP when commenting on his case. In addition to Sparrow, there is the Keith Henson story that illustrates Scientology's capacity to harass based on Internet postings.

    For those that don't know the story, please go to this link:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Henson

    Granted the Hansen story is an old story but the same guy is in charge now that was in charge then. So I am pretty sure that this forum is heavily monitored for purposes other than identifying posters for disconnection purposes.
     

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