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Discussion in 'Human Potential, Self Discovery' started by Veda, May 11, 2019.
I like the idea of perception ... and I like to think I have at least a bit of that, but I can't see the point of being outside my body unless it's to cheat at cards (sorry Veda, I'll go away now and do something useful).
that's too funny trouble, back when I first involved and had listened to the PDC's, Phoenix lectures, etc, a whole bunch of Hubbard's lectures, why I used to think what you thought, why I could cheat at cards, I could spy on people, I could be anywhere, out of body flying around, this was frightening to me.
But then Hubbard said we can't show our OT powers until the rest of the boys made the grade. It's a responsibility thing Hubbard said. We must get more boys up the grade!
oh that Hubbard, he was a good story teller.
Why do you ask?
I did have an experience once where I felt out of my body, and it was the most incredible thing I've ever experienced. It was back when I was about 13 years old, 8 years prior to my getting into Scientology. Whether I was actually exterior to the body I have no idea but it seemed as though I was.
When first learning about Scientology and their claims about being able to exteriorize someone, that was one of a number of claims that attracted me.
But it never happened to me again, including during the 10 years I was in Scientology.
But yes, I like the idea, based upon my previous experience and also after hearing some NDE (near death experience) stories. I watched a video just several days ago with David R. Hawkins, a psychiatrist, where he recounted a couple of his own NDE's, and they were pretty amazing.
Veda, these days I don't know what to think of what I once thought were personal out of body experiences.
There were times I was so surprised that it was as if my perceptions ran ahead of me. Like a car accident on the freeway when I was 18. The car and the body were completely stopped, but I kept going, even looking back at the car and myself blacked out over the steering wheel, and thinking, "Oh shit!" That "Oh shit!" thought had me BAM! straight back into my body and the car and coming out of unconsciousness.
My first time skydiving was something like that, too. What was only seconds or less seemed like minutes looking at everything in a state of wonder. Then suddenly I remembered I needed to breathe and BANG! I was looking through my eyes. The instructor said that happens a lot.
Extreme extroversion or exterior with full perception? A trick of the mind where the mind's perceptions anticipate events?
It happened to a lesser degree when I was "in the zone" doing an activity, too.
It's good to have your attention out, for sure. I can't explain the OOB experiences, but they were pleasant. Nothing that amazing ever happened to me with Scientology, though.
I like the idea that I am a spirit and will live as a spirit after this body dies and the OOB experiences (or whatever they were) tend to confirm that for me.
I am made of my body...when I die it will die...there, if there is another sort of life for me, I Will have much time for out of body experiences.
Actually what I'd like is to have new extatic experiences with my body, having total feelings and perceptions
I'm not very prone to pretending or "seeing things" that aren't there. Pretty empirical and evidence-based
nowadays. Especially after my stint in Scientology.
Out of body experience
About ten years after I left Scien, I was walking toward a parking garage in my community (view as below)
and suddenly I was no longer looking out of my eyes. I was 100% seeing the sign ahead as if I were a couple
feet away (view as below). I could see the screws and texture in the concrete clearly. The view was 100% as
if with my eyes but very close, no difference whatsoever. Was extremely vivid.
Close-up view lasted about three seconds, then I was back to viewing with my eyes, regular-like.
This is nothing I can duplicate at will. Puzzling how and why this happened. Just happened. I can't deny it.
Was undeniably the most vivid -- and only -- instance of something like this happening to me at 100%
full eyeball-quality perception.
Was like using a good quality zoom lens on a camera at full zoom, LOL.
I can understand that if people didn't ever have something like this happen to themselves personally,
they could be entirely disbelieving or even ridiculing. I get it.
Telepathic intimations -- phone about to ring and I know who, email was just sent to me, change in
a friend or relative's life condition, someone about to arrive outside, etc. -- have happened so often in my
life, they're too many to list. From what I understand this is pretty common with many people. Again,
nothing I can produce at will. Just happens.
Since it's nothing I can control, I don't think about it much. Just happy to have good "instincts" now
and then. I catalog this in the "one of the great mysteries of life" file and leave it at that. I don't know
that it can be taught or improved. Just born with it or not. Comes and goes.
On the other hand, my telepathic intimations about my OT7 ex were pretty bad. Had cheated on me
with seven or eight tramps (one-nighters) and I had no clue for a long time.
We'll just leave it at that, I guess.
Was Hubbard's "Be three feet back of your head" - originally, the first step to additional actions - meant to induce a sense of vertigo, in the direction of making the person more mentally malleable and suggestible?
This is the complete quote from John Symonds and Kenneth Grant, who were editors of some of Aleister Crowley's writings, referring to a 1911 series of "processes" published in Crowley's ten volume 'Equinox':
"It ('Batra', etc.) deals with the magical practice of expanding consciousness to the stars and the planets. The word 'Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia' is made up of the Greek words for Frog Mind Ox World Battle, and is a play on the title of the Homeric mock epic, the 'Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia' or 'Battle of the Frogs and Mice'. The idea behind the use of this barbarous name, 'Batra', etc. - that is, in pronunciation or vibration - is that it is supposed to create a sense of vertigo in which the mind is freed from its ordinary bounds. Consciousness - so the theory goes - is exalted to infinity by this method."
Warning: The "sense of vertigo" http://www.thefreedictionary.com/vertigo can also make the person vulnerable to manipulation, and more easily influenced and controllable.
Was Hubbard inducing a sense of "vertigo" with the "Be three feet back of your head" command?
The purpose of "Be three feet back of your head" would, then, not so much to place persons three feet back of their heads, but to have them agree that such a thing could be done. This places the person outside the confines of ordinary reality and is a signal to the operator that the person is open to suggestion.
Excerpt from the 1911 'Batra', from his ten volume 'Equinox'
(Batra inspired Hubbard's "Grand tour" of the book 'COHA').
(Notice that it contains actions which resemble what later were Scientology processes, such as spanning attention and mock ups, and even cautions about overrun.)
Q 0. Let the Practicus [student] study the textbooks of astronomy, travel if need be to a place where the sun and stars are visible, and observe the heavens with the best telescopes to which he may have access.1. Now, since the figures will leave no distinct impression with any precision upon his mind, let him begin practice A....A. Let the praticus be seated before a small table, and let an unknown number of small objects be thrown by the chela [teacher or trainer] from time to time upon the table, and by that chela hastily gathered up....Let the practicus declare at a glance, and the chela confirm by his count, the number of such objects......The quickness of the chela in gathering up is expected to increase with time... Care must be taken to detect the first symptom of fatigue, and to stop, if possible, even before it threatens. The practiced psychologist learns to recognize even minute hesitations that mark the forcing of attention.2. Alternating with the above, let the practicus begin the practice B....B. It is assumed that he has thoroughly conquered the elementary difficulties of Dharana [concentration], and is able to prevent mental pictures from altering shape, size, and color against his will.....Seated in the open air, let him endeavor to form a complete mental picture of himself and his immediate surroundings. It is important the he should be in the center of such a picture, and be able to look freely in all directions. The finished picture should be a complete consciousness of the whole, fixed, clear, and definite....Let him gradually add to the picture by including objects more and more distant, until he has an image of the whole field of vision....He will probably find that it is very difficult to increase the apparent size of the picture as he proceeds, and it should be his most earnest endeavor to do so. He should seek in particular to appreciate distances...3. These practices A and B accomplished, and his studies in astronomy, let him attempt practice C....C. Let the practicus form a mental picture of the Earth, in particular by striving to realize the size in comparison with himself, and let him not be content until by assiduity he has well succeeded. Let him add the moon, keeping well in mind the relative sizes of, and distances between, the planet and its satellite....He will probably find the final trick of the mind to be a constant disappearance of the image, and the appearance upon a small scale. This trick he must outwit by constancy of endeavor....He will then add in turn Venus, Mars, Mercury, and the Sun. It is permissible at this stage to change the point of view to the center of the sun, and to do so may add stability......And thus, gathering one star after another, let his contemplation become vast as the heaven, in space and time, ever aspiring to the perception of the body of Nuit, yea the Body of Nuit [Infinity]._________
Compare this with the body fixated - hooked up to a machine - NOTs levels.
A little more background known to Hubbard.
In 1937 a book titled, 'The Middle Pillar' by Israel Regardie (a student of Crowley for a time) was published.
[Psycho-therapeutic] Analysis is the logical precursor of spiritual attainment and Magical experiment... Not until the mind and the emotional system have been cleansed and unified by the cathartic process... can the full spiritual benefits of magical work be reflected into the mind of man....We should remember the parables of the archaic philosophical religions whose fundamental tenet was that within man was a spirit, a dynamic center of consciousness which, because of its contact and association with matter, had been plunged into a profound sleep, a kind of somnambulism...By endeavoring to extend the horizon of consciousness, to enlarge the field of awareness so as to embrace what previously was unconscious, is obviously a logical method. To become aware of all our actions, our thoughts and emotions and unsuspected motives, to regard them in their true light as actually they are and not as we would like them to be or as we would wish an onlooker to perceive them. It requires, to take this step, an extraordinary degree of honesty and courage... The more of this suppressed and forgotten material stored in this at one time unknown or dormant side of our nature that can be raised to the clear light of day, by exactly so much do we awake from the inert stupor into which we have in the past been plunged.
Regardie would have never imagined that ideas such as these would have been merged with malevolent mind control or "brainwashing."
Another experience is suddenly seeing things as if they are approximately 3 feet further away.
(I had this experience decades ago.)
But you don't see the back of your head. Sort of like having a third eye.
IIRC, Hubbard tried to do this, in old days, with auditing command "Be 3 feet back of your head" for One-shot Clear.
IMO, going exterior (or OOBEs) are various types of hallucinations.
I never had the 'be three feet back of your head' process run on me, but I did once have a classic OOBE during the time I was in Scientology.
It was in the summer of '75. I was living in an old rooming house on Hoover Street in Los Angeles. I wasn't even on course at the time, but I was surrounded by other Scientologists and that vibe permeated the place.
Anyway, one day I'm just laying on my bed daydreaming, when all of a sudden I find myself inspecting the ceiling of my closet from inches away.
No sooner had I begun to think how weird that was, I popped outside the closet window, and began to inspect the outdoors. I couldn't believe how sharp my perceptions were. It was as though the Coke bottle lenses had been removed from my eyes. And, I could see in spherical vision (all directions at once).
And the colors. I could weep for how beautiful everything around me was in that moment. My 'ears' also felt as though they'd been unplugged for the first time in my life. I swear, I think I could hear ants walking.
I also perceived myself to be about the diameter of a quarter, and as big around as ten square blocks, at the same time.
Well, the whole experience didn't last more than fifteen seconds, because in that moment, I fully realized what was happening. In a flash, I slammed back into the body, and I do mean slammed. It was pretty violent.
I've had lots of other OOBEs since then, but nothing as intense as that first time.
In the summer of 71 I was volunteering on staff for the summer before I went back home to finish my senior year of high school.
A staff member that had befriended me started conversing with me and while in the midst of a general conversation he slipped in a "be three feet..." and POP, out I went.
It had taken me entirely by surprise so I had no resistance to the command.
But I felt like a baby bird that had been yanked from the nest and I pulled myself back in with an overwhelming sense of desperation to not lose my position as owner/operator of my body.
While out I only saw a streaked blackness of dark grayish streaks descending through the blackness, it lasted no more than 5 seconds or so.
Not so much fun as the exteriorizations I remembered having as a child where I did have clear perceptions of my surroundings.
That's what medical marijuana gives me, the ecstatic feelings of all the nerves in my body at once, like I had as a child.
Don't know that it stops any pain however as it makes everything much more vivid and intense.
I just can't have it till late in the day or I'll get nothing done, and not every day either or it quits working as well.
I wouldn't think it would stop or lessen any of the "pain signals", whatever they are. I think it works by increasing markedly one's tolerance of them.
Good thread topic, Veda!
I see a number of folks have had various experiences of ascending away from being fixated and trapped in bodily perception.
These states of heightened awareness and/or recovery the ability to perceive directly as a spiritual presence is something to honor, appreciate and address such that it can be restored to being under one's full knowing control.
The trap and tragedy of Hubbard's gig was that he was dishonest enough to not do this with his shit "tech." And that was and is a grave omission. This because to fail to honor such states of Being or awareness is to bypass them and thus to cave the guy back into "wogsville."
Alan Walter addressed and handled this omission as below. This below is a post I made on my forum recently
Yes, though I wouldn't say that it stops or lessens pain signals either, I would say however that it changes the pain signal to more of an energy signal.
I mean I can still feel it with medical pot but it doesn't overwhelm me and make me want to crawl up and out of my body to escape my back pain like I used to feel after my injury.
I would feel like I had a tom cat climbing up my back with his claws, which incidentally I did have happen as a young child when my grandmother had to smack the cat with a broom to get it to let go and get off of me.
And that didn't make the cats grip on my flesh feel any better as he dug in harder initially.
A big orange tabby, Satan incarnate.
I think my grandmother had the neighboring farm's kid shoot it with his .22 as I found the cat up in the branches of a pine tree deader than a door-nail but still with a demonic, hissing look frozen on its face.
Well, Dag . . . have we managed to run out that fixed image/recording of the nasty cat on your back with the above recount?
Actually, there is a mechanism by which the pain and other shit we don't want hangs up in or existence. I wrote about it (again) on my forum just this week:
Yes, V had some other observations she voiced after the drama was over which she tells me she'll be writing on further . . .
But, for me, it was simply a matter of being focused on what I wanted and the what should be (the proper positive scene and condition of existence) versus tripping into fighting and opposing the not wanted. I was simply focused on what had to be restored to being proper again and what was needed to be done to bring it about. This, also while planning and conceiving of how to rig a warning and preventative system to protect the apartment overnight till we could complete a fix next day.The alternative would have been to focus on and be trapped in resisting the negative.When the emergency plumber arrived I immediately went into "work with" mode so as to contribute to his expertise by explaining to him the history of our apartment building's system so he could debug the problem. I also went into my "make a friend of him mode" so I'd have a happy camper to work with.The underlying phenomena here is: what kind of future are you creating by your every action, thought or envisionment. You see, long ago I discovered that, if I feared or otherwise conceived that something unwanted would (possibly) continue on into the future . . . guess where I was putting it?Hence the lesson is: envision what you want in the future versus fearing or opposing what you don't want there!And you can and should operate in this manner, even in a hostile environment, hold the vision of the positive want while at the same time implementing deterrence of the negative. Don't just fixate on the negative to resist . . . that will dot you out of your wanted futures.
Isn't that what Gaia made shrooms for?
Tongue in cheek, of course, but only a little bit...