Discussion in 'Leaving Scientology' started by Blue Spirit, Mar 2, 2009.

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  1. Blue Spirit

    Blue Spirit Silver Meritorious Patron

    I have some questions regarding repayments. I have read everything I could find on this site. Mostly I'd like a brief consultation with an attorney to help with details which could mean a larger repayment from Flag. They tried to charge me a percentage fee called an administrative fee, which I denied.
    I got that removed.
    Is it LRH policy to get repayments of those monies left in an incomplete intensive ?
    Can the course I barely started here, paid with Flag account money, be
    returned and credited to the Flag account ?

    Please help if you know policy (I don't have the Green Vols. now) and/or have similar experiences.

    I have made fast progress on my repayment and have had some interesting experiences. When the check (well into 5 figures) is in hand, I will tell the whole story in detail.

    I've been in for too long, and seeing outnesses all along, I have been quite the fool. I have much to make up for on 4 dynamics.
    My whole story will be told later.
    The experience of leaving has fundamentally keyed me out due to really following the chain of my Knowingness and Code-of-Honor Integrity,
    although sometimes I get angry!

    Also other types of org donations will be gone for later as I accumulate evidence of fraud for those donations.

    More later.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2009
  2. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    :welcome: Blue Spirit!

    May your repayment fly to you in full, and you get to share the full story with us, soon! :yes:

    Oh and btw: just to let you know: this board is gonna not work starting in a few hours, (I think) for a day or so!
  3. Stephanie

    Stephanie Patron with Honors

    Didn't Jason Beghe get a full refund of almost one million dollars, of all the money he ever gave the cult?

  4. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    I don't remember if he in fact did or not, but I sure hope so! :yes: :thumbsup:

  5. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    You really need dox for something like that.
  6. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    LRH policy says nothing on the subject. But it makes sense to pro-rate the amounts in question. It should even make sense to the people there.

    If you used 2 1/2 hours of a 12 1/2 hour intensive, then you should get back 80% of what you paid for it. Similarly, if you did 10% of a checksheet, it is reasonable to get back 90% of the amount paid for the course. Assuming you agree with their figures on the auditing hours, that one is easy enough. The checksheet is a bit harder, depending on the course, but unless they are being completely insane and you are willing to bend a bit, you should be able to reach an agreement. Depending on the course, you can't always go by number of pages of checksheet done compared to the total, but sometimes you can. Whoops! You didn't ask that question. The local org would be more than happy to paper transfer the unused part - or even all - of the course back to Flag as then they wouldn't have to pay you cash. :). Whether Flag would accept it or not is a different matter, but it would make sense to me and an attorney letter might speed it along if they're being stupid about it.

    I've worked in Treasury, as an FBO, and as a course sup, years in each, by the way.

  7. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    Apparently there are some requirements regarding refunds in the Secret Scientology 'deal' with the IRS, but, since it's *secret*, it's hard to address.

  8. Kathy (ImOut)

    Kathy (ImOut) Gold Meritorious Patron


    It's not so secret. It's posted on the web. It's just very, very long. My husband read the entire thing. I think it took him a few days.

    And from what I can tell, the CofS doesn't exactly follow the requirements set out by the IRS. WISE is still in operation and it was supposed to be closed down, based on the IRS agreement.
  9. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    I've read it too, however, the actual agreement is at least officially 'secret' (not to mention how it came about) so, it's hard to use. However, the WISE that was supposedly to be disbanded was, and, the current WISE is not 'related' to it :)

    Oh yeah.

    Hopefully the Sklar case will shine some light.

  10. Feral

    Feral Rogue male

    Welcome Blue Spirit!

    Paul has it right here, we had no trouble claiming the unused portion of an intensive.

    My wife just read this over my shoulder and said; "god, they must be getting a lot of refunds at the moment"

    I will send you a PM about the IAS and SP.
  11. Kathy (ImOut)

    Kathy (ImOut) Gold Meritorious Patron

    I thought WISE was still WISE. What's the F'ing difference? Nothing from what I saw and experienced.

    I thought the "secret" wasn't so "secret". I could have sworn my husband read how the "deal" was made. But I could be wrong. I don't remember that stuff. It's so NOT important to me anymore.

    I'm Out and I'm Free. :happydance:
  12. Tiger Lily

    Tiger Lily Gold Meritorious Patron

    :welcome: Blue Spirit

    I hope that you can get that refund soon, and am anxiously awaiting your story; this should be a good one!!

  13. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    WISE is, theoretically at least, no longer the *same* WISE. It's just a change of corporate structure. And, while the Wall Street Journal did publish the 'closing agreement', it wasn't officially released, so, it's supposedly still secret, which means you can't use it as amunition (easily.) The Sklar case is trying to *force* the actual agreement in to publication to show that the 'Church' of Scientology is receiving favors not given to other 'religions'.

    About the only important thing is, revelations of the actual agreement and how it happened might result in actual investigation and possibly some indictments :)

    However, if I remember right, the agreement is supposed to contain stipulations on refunds that go far beyond merely repaying 'money on account', which *should* be a slam dunk anyway.

    I'm just saying that even if everything is known (which it isn't) it's still 'secret' as long as the IRS and Church are allowed to *say* it's secret.

  14. Kathy (ImOut)

    Kathy (ImOut) Gold Meritorious Patron

    OK, we're talking in circles. I'm getting dizzy. LOL!!!

    I remember husband having me read about refunds/repayments.

    Technically it should be avail thru the Freedom of Information Act, as far as I'm concerned.

    And I don't think what my husband read was from the WSJ. But I really don't remember. And I really don't care. I'm too busy living life, to be concerned about the CofS much. :happydance:
  15. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Aren't there, in effect, two kinds of refunds?

    One is the "not satisfied with services rendered/get money back" type one. So it would be like-- hey all that stuff I did in Scn really sucked and it didn't do what was advertised, don't like it, sorry I did it, want all that money back.

    And then there's refund of a/p...

    Or am I missing something?
  16. Good twin

    Good twin Floater

    Getting your A/P or unused money is called repayment. Getting money back for services rendered is refund. There is a time limit on refunds not repayments. :yes:
  17. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Aha!! Thank you!!!
  18. Blue Spirit

    Blue Spirit Silver Meritorious Patron

    Thank you Wisened One for your good wishes.
    It WILL happen because I have the theta to do it and I'm at 20,22, & 30 on the tone scale as far as this game is concerned.
  19. Blue Spirit

    Blue Spirit Silver Meritorious Patron

    Thank you for the advice, Paul.
    My folders may be at ASHO still, so who is the correct terminal to ask to get partially unused intensives at Flag and ASHO counted and returned to my accounts ?
    The Ruds Officer called from Flag and she said those monies could only be converted to training and when I made the obvious suggestion that I wouldn't be doing anymore training in the Church, so it should be cash returned to the account, she said it couldn't (wouldn't ?) be done.

    I also am going to get a course that I barely started at C.C. paid for out of my Flag account returned to the Flag account. I have the correct terminal to do that.

    I will also add that when the check is in my hands I will have a lot of interesting experiences to pass on for others benefit. I've already been able to see some useful things about the Church.

    Thanks for your help, Paul.

  20. Blue Spirit

    Blue Spirit Silver Meritorious Patron

    Thank you Kevin.
    Who is the correct staff terminal to email to count up my unused hours in the folder from two orgs ?

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