Discussion in 'Life After Scientology' started by Nicole, Oct 13, 2011.

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  1. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron

    A few days ago I read a book about a woman who tells her Scientology Story as a kind of diary... In the beginning of the book she wrote how she has fallen in the trap. About the first TRs, the first Auditing sessions, the love bombing, but even she wrote about the stress, how Scientology got part of her life.

    As I read the beginning of the book and about her feelings etc I felt "restimulated". My addiction was there again, but maybe it wasn't away. I lay sleepless in my bed and thought, how could I go back to Scientology without to get problems. Could I ring them, should I drive the next morning to the Org or maybe the FreeZone is an alternative way....

    I know it is totaly stupid, I know I am having so much to loose and I know that they would destroy me when I would go back and even so I thought this shit.

    I ask me, why do I think about this? This isn't me!
    Is it a kind of tech good Management bad stage?
    Am I the only person that has that feelings?

    ...and I asked me what did I like in Scientology? Did I like the wins? Did I like the atmosphere? What am I missing? I can't find an answer to my questions.

    The only thing I know I don't want to to go back.

    BTW: a very good book...
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2011
  2. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I can't think of any way of safely doing Scn services with the CofS. Walking past the org and looking in the window is dangerous enough!


    1. Freezone
    2. Do it yourself using Clearbird materials, but you have to know what you are doing
    3. PaulsRobot, except I still don't have it back online yet.

  3. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    The first assumption of Scientology - what it wants you to believe, is that you are somehow deffective, not good enough, a failure. I doubt that that is the case. Enjoy your life. You don't need Scientology to live a good life.
  4. loose cannon

    loose cannon Patron with Honors

    What about that weird we-don't-know-who-it-is individual's Rub & Yawn sessions? :coolwink:
  5. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Well, I think it's a great (and free!) way of getting rid of restimulation, but the lady wanted Scientology, and Rub & Yawn isn't Scn.

  6. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    I agree that one doesn't need Scientology to lead a good life, but obviously people find faults (defects, failings) with the "human condition", physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually, and they look to science and/or religion to SOLVE these many "problems".

    If Man was so happy and content with his current state then religions couldn't survive and flourish so well. Just saying . . . :confused2:

    Any system that aims to "better" and "improve" some aspect of Man concurrently must find some fault or problem to "better" or "improve".

    I don't see that Hubbard was so very wrong in delineating the problems or symptoms of Man and societies, but he erred greatly in how he framed HIS system as the ONLY EFFECTIVE SOLUTION TO THESE PROBLEMS. To me, it is this KSW absolutist viewpoint, that runs deeply throughout almost all Scientology, that renders it so very TOXIC.

    Obviously Man has NOT been content with his state or condition throughout history, and many aspects of science, politics, economics and religion have aimed at correcting some aspect of that dissatisfaction.

    But, one CAN reach a state where "all is good", and one is "happy to be just what he is and where he is". But THAT takes growth, experience and TIME! It usually takes at least a "lifetime". :confused2:

    I might add that my involvement with Scientology had very LITTLE to do my my own getting there - other than learning up-close-and-personal how detrimental a "belief system" can be to REAL mental and spiritual growth.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2011
  7. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    Yeah, but scientology has never been proven to really work.

    No clears, no OTs and they've been at it for 60 years.

  8. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron

    I know Scientology is dangerous... and I don't want to have anything to do in any way with Scientology. I am lucky in my life, like it is now, that is not the question or the point.

    I thought I am over that point of thinking to go back and as I read the book I have seen that I am not over this point. I have seen that I don't stand very save on my own feeds.

    I know it is stupid to think about this. I explain it with Scientologese, can't do it other at the moment. It is like my reactive mind takes control about me in this moments... My analytical mind says no, this is wrong but can't do lots against this until the "Scientology Fever" goes away. ..and it goes away, some month ago I was sleepless every night...this is gone. It was the first time after a very long break.

    Where does this come from? Why does it happen when I read something about Scientology, where I have lots of feelings and it happen sometimes in other situations too, where I am stressed.

    Now I could say, ok I ignore this it happen only for a very short period, but what should I do, if OSA stand the next time again at my door... if this happen I have to stand very safe on my own feeds. I don't want a disaster again. I want to be prepared. I want to have my whole selfrespect back.

    I do not want another Scientology or another guru. I want to live. But sometimes it comes back and sometimes I am having very evil nightmares of my childhood and the things I have gone through in Cof$. ..and Sometimes I have problems to sort my childhood out. There is nobody I could ask. I wish I could go back and look "neutral" at it. Maybe this is the point. Maybe I need here professional help.
  9. I wish I could read German so that I could read this book! :duh:

    Nicole honey, I think you answered your own question. People get addicted to or obsessed with doing Scientology just like any other "habit". People who are in recovery often have relapses...less and less the more time and mental/emotional healing work has transpired between now and their actively pursuing their addiction.

    The TR's "condition" you, as in hypnosis. The Love-bombing floods you with Oxytocin, which makes you want to bond with the group and stay with them. Even when things get rough later, you want to chase that emotional high and recapture the feeling...thinking that is the natural state of the group, not realizing that you were being handled and processed, that it was all part of an elaborate Con Job to get you to join up and entrain with the group.

    All of the "inspeak" jargon, rules, hierarchy, culture, etc. is meant to indoctrinate you into a cult. And it's very effective if a person is unaware of what is happening!

    All the levels and steps and books and dvds and lectures make you feel like you are REALLY learning something, gaining something...although it is all esoteric, ephemeral knowledge, which separates you even further from reality and the rest of humanity, and drags you deeper inside the cult. (Except for maybe Les Dane's hard sell sales tactics text- which was bootlegged [pirated].)

    The auditing gives you attention, and you get to think about and talk about yourself, relieve stress and feel as if someone is really seeing and hearing you and that you are resolving real issues in your life (often this does happen, although at a terrible price to your life compared with other forms of "counseling", but often it is an illusion). You can have the same wins and even better ones with almost any form of real world counseling, and for a fraction of the cost in money, time, physical health and social sacrifices that you must make to be a part of the cult.

    It's not too wrong for any Ex member of a cult to think of themselves as a recovering addict, or even to learn a little bit about the mechanisms of addiction. Re-stimulation, as you put it, happens and so does relapse when one is in recovery. (I'm sorry if my saying this offends anyone, I mean no offense to you, just drawing a parallel to similar problems in life.)

    In a very real sense, all former Cult survivors are still in recovery, although the urgency of any feelings of attraction to the addictive group does greatly recede and fade with time...some of the old-timers can tell you that it takes years to get free of deep conditioning and lay down new thought patterns for the old ones.

    You HAVE been conditioned, Nicole, to feel, think and react to certain stimulus in the way the Cult wanted you to. That conditioning still effects people sometimes after they physically leave the group. I think if you examine it, that is what you are experiencing here, after reading about the other woman's diary-like experiences and remembering your own.

    That indoctrination includes the thought that you as a human being are broken (finding your "ruin") and need Scientology processing to "fix" you, and that the world is a degraded place and there is no hope and no future for anyone outside of the cult. Those implanted feelings, concepts and motivators need to be consciously examined and addressed and dismissed, sometimes over and over again, for you or any Ex to really get fully free of the cult's influence. Scientology is a doomsday cult, really. A GREAT deal of time, indoctrination training, money and energy is spent in keeping members from leaving and recovering them when they do leave (even to the point of physical kidnappings and unlawful restraints).

    You have been indoctrinated and conditioned to be easily re-stimulated along these lines. I've talked with many Exes who struggle with this, especially for the first couple of years being out, especially when they are not getting any counseling or help with recovering from their cult experience. Counseling really helps to get a handle on this. Even just the informal counseling of talking things over with folks here who care and have similar issues or have gone through what you are going through now... :)

    What you are thinking and feeling is perfectly normal for what you have been through. It will pass! Stay calm and take good care of yourself, nurture yourself a bit more than usual... stay focused on what currently is good in your life, and these thoughts and feelings will fade into the past. There will be a time when they don't come up for you as strongly, or as much.

    Exes have described it to me in this way: "the indoctrination comes off of you in layers"...over time. It all takes time, Nicole, so please be patient with yourself.

    But understand that you are not the same person you were Nicole, before your cult experience. No one is, really. Just acknowledge that quiet fact about your life. Being in a cult is a life-changing, personality changing, disruptive life experience. Give yourself a lot of credit for getting out of the trap and doing as well as you are, whatever your life circumstances! Be patient with are healing. Your present task is to learn and grow from this experience of having been a part of this particular cult to the maximum of your own individuality as you put the experience behind you and move forward into creating a great life for yourself, and for your family and friends. You can do it. :thumbsup:

    Writing about your feelings here and talking things over with other Exes who have also been there and done that is one of the wisest things you can possibly do. I applaud your good sense in wanting to talk about your perceptions and feelings about this issue. :clap:

    If you haven't already found some real world counseling that you feel is helping you, please try it, and keep trying until you find the right fit for you. I would recommend that for all survivors of cults, in general. :thumbsup:

    Best Wishes to you, dear heart! You deserve a very happy life! :yes:
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2011
  10. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron

    It is a "normal" Scientology story...

    A very good post! Thank You very much... :)
  11. You are welcome, honey! :)
  12. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

    This is so kind and so well written.

    Nicole, I couldn't say it any better than the above. I might add that I have found it quite helpful to focus on the physical - making sure my nutrition is good and that I exercise, get outdoors and soak in nature, etc. It does a world of good.

    Scientology can be very introverting. Enjoy the simple things like eating some fresh fruit, get yourself some flowers and tell you - how much you love you. Spend some time just loving yourself. In the end, you have to be your own best friend. It isn't selfish to be so.

    Splurge on "indulging" in being nice to you and after awhile, though of course you love others and want to be part of groups, etc., you will find that you don't need that, particularly, to feel good about yourself because you already have the best friend you could have - yourself.

    I don't like to give advice and I am responding to your thread out of love for you. I know you are quite capable of handling your own life but, should you wish to follow any of this here, I offer a suggestion:

    For the next 2 weeks, every single day, go out of your way to be the best friend you can be to yourself. If you can, buy yourself some things that make you feel good. Have lovely flowers around - just because - just for you. Walk outside, smell the fresh air. Go to an art museum. Take yourself out and see if you can love yourself unconditionally. For 2 weeks, no matter what, no negative thoughts about yourself are allowed - you can let them come in later if you want to - but not for now.

    Eat and drink the best foods. Do something gutsy and feel proud of yourself. Say something that you normally wouldn't say because you are afraid of what people might think - then walk away and don't care. For the next 2 weeks, devote your time to Nicole as if she was your absolute best friend and the soul sister who you would never dream of being critical of. :hug::hug::hug:

    Now, having said all that, I think I'll go do the same :)
  13. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron

    Thanks for your advice, Synthia... and you are right, I have to take more care about myself and I have to learn to love me again.

    In the last time I was getting very strong ill. I had so much pain, I couldn't walk, high fever etc. In the beginning the doctor thought it could be cancer, but I had "luck" I had a diverticulitis. But I went to a doctor, take the medicine and changed my behaviour, even the nutrition. If everything went well, I will need no operation. Imo all the things I have gone through, the stress etc I really "eat" this and the result was my body doesn't wanted to work anymore.

    I have to calm down and I have to enjoy my life. But it is very difficult to change the trained behaviour. I learned it as kid to be silent, to be scared about to say my own opinion. I have learned not to be me. ...and I ask myself what I am and what I want to do with me and my life.

    I know Scientology isn't the way for me. I know it since I was a kid. Inside me I allways fight against it. ...and now I understand something better, Scientology made me to a "Junkie". I am addicted.

    It is a shame, what the Cult has made out of me. But I can "grow" and I can learn.

    Good I started this thread and wrote my emotions down... I thought long about this.
  14. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

    Good thing you did start this thread, yes.

    Also, if you do feel you need to speak with a professional, definitely do so. It's their job to get people through situations like this. Very much love flowing your way from here. :)
  15. Challenge

    Challenge Silver Meritorious Patron

    I. troo, am afflicted with Diverticulitis. I have had 4 episodes with it. You won't believe that what I discovered with mine is that NUTs were triggering it. I had thought so, but I had another attack and realized it was caused by Biscotti. I was having Biscotti with my Coffee inthe mornings, and the Biscotti had like crushed almonds in it. The slight Almond content was enuff to cause an episode.
    My advice on that is to be vigilant about not eating nuts, grains, or seeds. Even Poppy Seed buns can do it to me.
    Don't be discouraged. You won't like this, and other posters here, mainly the Ronbots, will have a hey-day down-doing me, but if you will smoke a bit of marijuana, it will flip your view of stuff around until it will not seem important. As a rule, when someone is high on pot, scientology looks foolish and absurd.
    That's why LRH didn't want any scn'ist using drugs. Interfered with processing when they weren't introverted into "case". lol

  16. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Here are some Source references for any troublesome Ronbots.

    From 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health' (1950):

    "Opium is less harmful [than alcohol], marijuana is not only less physically harmful but also better in the action of keeping a neurotic producing, phenobarbital does not dull the senses nearly as much and produces less after effect..."

    There's a recorded lecture from around 1950, where Hubbard mentioned that at parties, where he was seen drinking, he'd been asked about his use of alcohol, in light of his condemnation of it in 'Dianetics, MSMH'. His response was that, it's "a non sequitur" to think that he would abstain from the use of alcohol.

    From a 'Philadelphia Doctorate Course' lectures (1952):

    Lecture 27: "The body - He has never used it. He's taken care of it."

    Lecture 33: "There isn't any reason it shouldn't drink all the liquor it can hold... be perfectly free to use the body in any way he chooses."

    Ron Jr. from 'Messiah or Madman?':

    "He [Hubbard Sr.] would sit at his typewriter late at night and boost up on drugs and hit way at the top, and just write like crazy. He could type 97 words a minute with four fingers. That was the maximum the old IBM electric typewriter would go. When he got into one of these drugs trips, he'd write until the body just collapsed.

    "That's the way he worked. Usually what he had written in a burst would then be allowed to trickle out to the public, the classes he taught. It just wouldn't show up right away.

    "But it was an uneven thing. Sometimes he wouldn't write for a week, then he'd strap on the heavy duty rockets and go up again."

    Hubbard's bottle a night at St. Hill, and how it was discreetly discarded the next morning:

    From 'Keeping Scientology Working' (1965):

    "We will not speculate here on... how I came to rise above the bank."

    A few excerpts from the John McMaster interview in the book, 'Messiah or Madman?':

    "The basic function of auditing is a wonderful thing, but Hubbard perverted it...

    "He got the technology to the point where he had a sort of assembly line as he called it. And he told me how he was putting all these 'square ball bearings' on the beginning of the assembly line, and then turning them into 'round ball bearings' at the other end. That was his idea of 'standard tech'...

    On the Apollo, McMaster witnessed Hubbard's drug supply, "It was the largest drug chest I had ever seen. He had everything!"

    From Aleister Crowley's 'The Book of the Law':

    "We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit; let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of Kings: stamp down the wretched and the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.

    "...I am the snake that giveth knowledge and delight, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness. To worship me take wine and strange drugs. They shall not harm ye at all. It is a lie, this folly against self...

    "...The Kings of Earth shall be the Kings forever: the slaves shall serve.

    "Them that seek to entrap thee, to overthrow thee, them attack without pity or quarter; and destroy them utterly."

    The 'Law of Thelema' is "Do What Thou Wilt." For Crowleyites, its "Bible" is 'The Book of The Law'.

    From a one of Jack Parsons' letters to Aleister Crowley, re. Hubbard: "He [Hubbard] is the most Thelemic person I have ever met..."

    And from Jack Parsons, Hubbard's "Magic(k)al partner" for a time in 1946. Parsons wrote this poem, which appeared in 1943, in the 'Oriflamme' Journal of the O.T.O:

    "I hight Don Quixote, I live on Peyote, Marijuana,
    "Morphine and Cocaine,
    "I never know sadness, but only a madness,
    "That burns in the heart and the brain.
    "I see each charwoman, ecstatic, inhuman, angelic, demonic, divine.
    "Each wagon a dragon, each beer mug a flagon
    "That burns with ambrosial wine."

    It appears that Hubbard, himself, had no interest in becoming a "round ball bearing" on an "assembly line."
  17. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron

    My doc gave me the same advice, no nuts, no kernels or something like that. I have eaten lots of blackberries and they are having this little kernels, I guess they made that episode. ...and the doctor said sugar could be a reason too. At the moment I am eating no sugar, no kernels, no nuts and the other things I am testing, some things I can eat and some things not. The doc also said I should eat lots of pure yoghurt and I should drink buttermelk.

    ESMB is great, if you have a kind of problem you are never alone. :coolwink:

    I believe this, I really do. But doesn't Scientology always looks foolish and absurd? :biggrin:
  18. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron

    Well I finished the book. The book that restimulated me...

    The woman, Elke Nietsche, was "only" 6 weeks in Scientology. She had help from her family and has left the Cult after this 6 weeks. She wrote that Scientology changed her personality in this 6 weeks. That every self respect was gone etc.

    mmmhhh... it is difficult for me to understand this, because I was brought as kid into Scientology. Scientology was a part of my life. I am looking at a whole life in Scientology or better to say in believing the Scientology ideology.

    I have heard some people saying it doesn't matter how long you were in Cof$, it is the same. Is it really the same? I don't think so. The more and the longer you are involved in the Scientology system the stronger the mind control goes. The more friends you loose. ...and the younger you were as you got in contact with Scientology the stronger is the damage.
  19. Dilettante

    Dilettante Patron with Honors

    Great thread and really good responses. I can't add any better advice but I think I know of the addiction that you write about. Scooter mentioned once "standing shoulder to shoulder" with others, a common goal to help mankind. He missed that aspect of the comraderie. Scio just gives all the answers to all the problems so we don't have to line up with a specific group to do it. Illiteracy? Scio pretends to help that! Human rights? Scio pretends that one too! You name it scio pretends to fix it. No need to actually get involved and do something-just go to course and pay pay pay. While many scio's have good intentions the actual products are crap. I felt a great wave of relief to find out how much scio did not actually help. I also hooked up with nonprofits that DO help and have real products!!! That was necessary for me to get over my 'addiction'. I have scio family still in so I see how hard they work for mankind, it breaks my heart. They do mean well.
    Thank God you found ESMB!!! You are a smart girl, this stuff sucks but I'm so glad you can post about it. Even in your broken english! Thank you for taking the time and sharing.:yes:
  20. Natalie

    Natalie Patron with Honors

    I agree, it does matter how long you were in. After a lifetime in Scn, with 4 generations of my family involved, leaving has been like being born again, starting over. Finding out who we are, what we think about things, exploring what we want to explore.

    In my opinion the longer you were "in", the longer it can take to seperate yourself from it. Also, like you said you loose more friends etc. Though, many of these friends do and will come around. :biggrin:

    Any residual effects from he cult that I'm working through are nothing compared to the control, financial raping, and abuses that I experianced and witnessed while in the cult.

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