Discussion in 'Staff "War Stories"' started by Krysti, Aug 7, 2007.

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  1. Krysti

    Krysti Patron with Honors

    I've read a lot of experiences of people who were sent to the RPF.

    What I'm wondering though is what did people not in the RPF think about it?

    Did you feel sorry for the people? Did you think they must be evil? Did you think 'What kind of an organization am I a part of that could do that to their own people?".

    I'm just wondering why that wasn't enough to make people want out of the CofS.

    The curious one,

  2. Little Bear Victor

    Little Bear Victor Silver Meritorious Patron

    This may not be a very in-depth analysis, but when in the SO, you certainly consider the RPF the "outcasts" who are there as their last hope in making it in the SO. What I've seen, it is generally considered that the people who end up there deserved it by their own actions (like it is with everything that goes wrong with a person in Scientology: "You only have yourself to blame").

    It is also used as a deterrent to continuing a certain behavior pattern (such as criticism) as in "that'll get you RPF'd." For DM, the same threat is a way to get more production squeezed out from SO members who already think they're doing everything possible. Most RPF assignments on the Int base are done by DM. People "on his side" are quick to deny it but it nevertheless is true.

    It may deter people from joining the SO. I don't think it would get people to leave Scientology -- except if you happen to read about it on ARS, which gives you a pretty unflattering picture of the worst practices in Scn.

  3. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    I didn't hear about it til I got on the internet. It wasn't discussed much in CofS.

    The only mention I'd heard was about punishment detail and that was ONCE.

    What truly goes on in the RPF isn't fully disclosed to members unless they are in the process of undergoing it or work there.

    So it did not seem like a big deal until I read numerous accounts of what really occurred.

    What I'm trying to say, Krysti, is that there's a big difference between someone knowing the full extent of the thing and still turning a blind eye and someone who doesn't say anything about it because they've heard little or nothing about it.
  4. Krysti

    Krysti Patron with Honors

    Got it! :yes:

    Thanks for the replies.
  5. Flyonthewall

    Flyonthewall Patron

    I definitely thought that those on the RPF screwed up on post and generally I'd have read the posting that told of their "screwups". I was hoping that they'd get better and graduate and become a productive SO member. I definitely wouldn't try and ignore them and would say hello, good morning or whatever when in passing. Common courtesies. Others reacted differently. The only person who I didn't treat right as I recall, was Michael Silverman when he got sent to the RPF, I always thought he was arrogant in my dealings with him he was never a pleasant person to me.

    While I was doing Reno's for the SO on their Hollywood Guarantee Building I instituted a pizza lunch every week in gratitude for their help.

  6. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    No doubt Chuck Beatty's 8 years on the RPF for wanting to leave would count as a 'screw up' ;)

  7. Flyonthewall

    Flyonthewall Patron

    I just want to clarify that I put "screwups" in quotes for a reason and I was trying to give a viewpoint from the eyes of one ex so member of how I remember looking and feeling about RPFers while being in the SO.

    I personally now look at RPFers as a slave workforce that needs government intervention.

  8. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    Didn't mean to be (too) harsh CB :)

    What I see as the problem is the 100% Standard Scientology Scripture of 'responsibility for your own condition'.

    Whether it's an asteroid falling on your head or a bug-shit-crazy Cult locking you away.. you *must* have 'pulled it in'.

  9. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    I have to suppress a guffaw on your last statement....which government?
    I can't think of a single one that is not actively suppressing or making slaves out of their own populace....

    But I do agree that the RPF is an abomination, and should be abolished, or at least made humane. Along with the Chinese dissident camps, the russian gulags, and the US underclass. One aspect of the 4th dynamic dramatization IS making others wrong for any reason whatsoever....
  10. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Well, my government, imperfect though it is (there are no perfect governments, there are no utopias. governments are made up of people.) has repeatedly intervened in cult affairs and in other venues such as slave trafficking.

    Yes, they often do so ham handedly. They often mess up. They do pick their battles. But they -and a number of other governments- do quite a bit regardless.

    So it's not an entirely unreasonable hope that any even quasi semi sometimes reasonable Western government - and maybe some Eastern ones- would intervene someday...The SO would be a great candidate for that.
  11. Snuffy

    Snuffy Patron Meritorious

    As embarrassing as it is to admit, I was 8 years in Scientology, and on staff in a Class V org for a lot of that, and did not know what the RPF was until I went on to the internet a few months ago and started looking. I was reading Vaughn Young's stuff where he mentions going to the RPF and I had no idea what he was talking about. I don't think my situation was atypical of many Scientologists, because, as you say Krysti, it would be enough to cause most people to leave, so of course you just don't hear about it.

    I've recently seen Mike Rynder asked about the RPF and he makes out that people had no right to complain because they knew what they were getting into when they joined. I think his reasoning is that no one would feel sorry for a monk leaving a monastery and complaining about sleeping on straw and having to wake up in the middle of the night to say prayers, etc. I don't know, I had SO recruitment officers talk to me on several occasions and never once did they mention the RPF, whereas I can't imagine someone going into a monastery not having a clue about the lifestyle. Typical Scientologist sophistry.
  12. mate

    mate Patron Meritorious

    When I arrived in PAC on my way into the Sea Org in the early '80s, I was briefly at the CMO PAC. I was as I found out later, to be a "coin" to get Barbara Tompkins out of Flag. One of the cycles I ddid, was to take NOTs folders that had been C/Sed to Rick Azneran in the PAC RPF in the basement of the main building. I couldn't believe the conditions in which they were working, and decided at that point that I would never accept being in the RPF.

    When I eventually became a Flag C/S, one day I walked into Steve Stevens in the Flag RPF. Steve was CO Flag Tours Org in Sydney. One this and a couple of other occasions, I went into the canteen to buy him some treats. Of course, it was right off policy, but then I was a bit of a loose cannon. I could never accept that RPFers were degraded beings, to me they were the victims of the insane application of insane ethics policies.

    When I arrived at Gold to become QEI I walked into, Jesse Prince, Paul Crabtree and Spike Bush, and found them in the Int RPF. We had a brief chat and they quickly took leave because of their concern for me. They seemed happy enough but I could sense they wanted out of it. In the short time I was there, it became rather obvious that RPF assignments were somewhat arbitrary and there was no real stigma with being in the Int RPF.

    Later, when I was a C/S in the Universe Corps, I overheard a discussion about the possibility of my going to the RPF, I walked. Sure there were other factors leading up to it, but that precipitated it.

    Regards, David.
  13. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well done David!!! :hifive: :dancer: :woohoo:
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2013
  14. mate

    mate Patron Meritorious

    Thank you Alan, very much appreciated. :)

    Regards, David.
  15. pomfritz

    pomfritz Patron with Honors


    What was Paul Crabtree doing at Int? Was he married to Debbie still? Do you know what became of them? I knew Debbie from FSO in the 80's, she had a son, Joe I beleive was his name.
  16. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    I have heard that he is working construction. I know he's off staff, but last I heard he was still in good standing.
  17. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    I wish I had done the same as you, Mate. The RPF really messes with your head and sanity. I dont know when or how to really recover, except over time.:(
  18. Kookaburra

    Kookaburra Gold Meritorious Patron

    The reason you don't hear about it is that the SO is not proud of it. They KNOW it is grossly out PR and people will think badly of them. That is why they hide the RPF. They work in places like level 2 of the basement, in buildings otherwise unoccupied, in courtyards surrounded by high cement walls where they can't talk to anyone and no-one can see or talk to them.

    Funnily enough, no recruiter ever used the RPF as a recruitment tool on me either. :confused2:

    They did point out, however, that there was regular libs so plenty of time to spend with friends and do the things I wanted to do. Oh yeah, and I'd get all the way up the bridge, too! :hmmph:
  19. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Dear Bea, and others that did the RPF,

    There is an earlier time when there were several people in Scio and on the SHSBC that were survivors from the World War II Concentration Camps in Germany and Poland.

    Over the years I have processed 28 people who had been in German Concentration Camps. Most of these people I processed during my years at Saint Hill.

    How correction lists came into being was from my processing of those people.

    The first correction list I originated was what is now known as L4BR. The reason for this is that none of the Concentration Camp survivors could run Goals processing or find any correct items.

    I observed that these people were doing fine in life - but that as soon as they started Goals processing or item finding they crashed and became very ill or unconscious.

    This was a fairly common occurrence for most people on the GPM section of the SHSBC.

    Back then of course my fellow guinea pig (researchers) pioneers, I or LRH had no idea of the disastrous effects that wrong locations, wrong games, and wrong goals, wrong items, wrong subjects, out lists or self listing would or could do to a person.

    It was Gordon Bell who cracked open the door to this area ? as it was he that discovered what by-passed charge was and how it came about.

    As I had finished the theory and practical sections of the SHSBC I had plenty of spare time so I offered to process these ?collapsed cases.?

    As the pc was okay before they started the session on GPMs ? what occurred that caused the ?collapsed case? must have been during the session.

    Obviously something had been done wrong. As there were only two basic actions on GPM finding ? which were Finding the pc?s Goal or finding Reliable Items.

    It pretty obvious it was either a wrong Goal or a wrong Item.

    Often the pc was brought to me in a comatose state. (Usually in a wheelbarrow.)

    I would lay them on the floor ? put the cans in their hands ? (even in their comatose state they had the ability to hold the cans) ? I would then state: ?In your last session was there a wrong item given to you?? or ?In your last session was there a wrong goal given to you?? or ?In your last session was there a right item missed?? or ?In your last session was there a right goal missed??

    Miraculously when the right indication was stated ? the pc would come alive ? sit up ? get in the chair and we would clean up what ever needed cleaning up.

    What I did not realize back then was that Goals processing was triggering previous failed or suppressed Goals or item finding was triggering previous out lists and wrong items. But what was even worse that these times of failed or suppressed Goals previous out lists and wrong items stemmed from a time the person was in a weak valence.

    Obviously when the Gestapo came for the client ? the client went into overwhelm and became a weak identity. Consequently most of the rest of their life is positioned from being in a weak identity that then positions you in the wrong locations, wrong games, and wrong goals, wrong items, wrong subjects, out lists or self listing would be occurring.

    Being put in the RPF does exactly the same thing.

    Correction Lists ushered in the Locate and Indicate Tech.

    Being more of yourself, in the right place at the right time, connected to the right people, living your dreams, doing what you loved to do was indicative of having correct locations, correct games, and correct goals, correct items, correct subjects, correct lists and correct answers to self listing questions.

    Processing will not work in the presence of out lists and wrong items.

    Thus it is best to stay away from processing.

    The best thing is correct all the incorrect lists, data, goals, items, subjects, etc. and of course find the right Dreams and Goals for you!

    And possibly the most important datum:

    The right item for you is not necessarily the right item for another!:happydance:

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2013
  20. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    Thank you. That info is interesting.

    Did you ever do NOTs or read those materials? curious...

    And about the people (pc's) being unconcious - in all my years on tech lines, I rarely saw this. Why would that be? the tech is better, or worse? They are not getting dug in on? Drugs inhibiting deep counselling? Only once did I see a pc fully passed out, unable to be recovered without a date/locate of an incident.

    Though I'd like to see similarities with concentration camps and RPF, I have to be honest and say that the camps deserve alot more auditing than those harmed by the RPF. I feel the latter is easier to recover from. in that sense, I guess it wasn't so bad. But some pretty crazy sh*t happens there. I was in the SO for 16 - 17 years. I spent about 5 on RPF, not counting the childrens RPF, which is one more year.:nervous: :nervous: :nervous:

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