Scientific scritiny of P. Forde's scientific scritiny of OT III.

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by cybersurf, Aug 18, 2009.

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  1. cybersurf

    cybersurf Banned

    Scientific scrutiny of P. Forde's scientific scrutiny of OT III.

    Do you know that Peter Forde's Scientific Scritiny of OT III (which pretends to prove that OT III didn't happen) is a validation of OT III?
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2009
  2. skollie

    skollie Silver Meritorious Patron

    Please explain how it validates OTIII :confused2:
  3. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

  4. skollie

    skollie Silver Meritorious Patron

  5. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    They are the same as far as I can determine in a just few minutes of reading.
  6. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    I hesitate to mention it, but, hell, why not :)

    OTIII's specific '75 million years ago' is *very* specific, since Ron usually specified his time stamps to the microsecond. Which has usually caused problems for believers who would like to find commonality with the 'death of the dinosaurs' at about 65 million years ago. Even to the point of claiming that 'shocked quartz crystals' can only have resulted from the hydrogen Bombs Xenu used.

    Naturally, the lack of hawaian islands 75 million years ago makes such apologetics difficult, but! Wait! There's More!!!

    Actually, there *were* hawaian islands then, and, in fact, there were hawaian islands *85* million years ago. They just weren't the current batch. The originals formed over the hawaian 'hot spot' have now moved over to the end of the Aleutian island chain. So, between 75 and 65 million years ago, there *were* volcanoes there. Just not the current ones.

    Wow! Howz bout the 'Church' dumps their other 'research' and getsa sub to find the *real* volcano?

  7. Rmack

    Rmack Van Allen Belt Sunbather

    Let me broach an idea;

    Surely, you have heard of 'velocity induced time dilation'. You know; traveling near the speed of light, Astronaut Buzz Lightshorts takes 5 years to travel to Alpha Centauri, and a like number of years to travel back......TOO HIM!!!!

    (dramatic music)

    To his dismay, a lot more time has gone by on earth. A lot more.

    This science fiction scenario has actually been proven six ways from Sunday, and is as true as it gets.

    But have you heard of 'gravity field induced time dilation'? Same concept, but involving how deep you are in a gravity well.

    The two most accurate clocks in the world are located in Greenwich, England, and Colorado. They are 'atomic clocks' that work off the resonance of an isotope of the cesium atom. Very accurate. however, they run consistently a few millions of a second off from each other every year.

    Which ones right?

    The scary answer is; they both are! The one in England is near sea level, and the one in Colorado is several thousand feet up in the mountains. Not enough to effect your schedule, but real, measurable, and consistent with Einsteins theory.

    Now, if you've seen the Hubble pictures, you realize we live in the middle of the Mother of all Gravity Fields.

    Of course, no one can crunch those numbers, not even close, but it's clear that some gravity field induced time dilation is taking place.

    In other words; the earth could be a lot younger than you might deduce by distant starlight. You with me?

    Just sayin'

  8. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    Nah. We're talking orders of magnitude here. The earth's gravity gradient is relatively constant and consistent over both time and location and any variation is tiny. Certainly tiny enough to be irrelevant to a difference of 10 million years over 75.

    But, what I was suggesting was that there is a rationalization for the failure of physical evidence re Incident II that Hubbard rationalizers haven't grasped at yet. Maybe they can borrow Barbara Schwarz's submarine and go look for the *real* OTIII hawaian island :)

    However, even the plate tectonics and existence of 'earlier' islands on the chain doesn't explain away Hubbard's misdating of the 'incident'. After all, Ron's 'accuracy' is frequently given in microseconds. So, 75 million years puts Incident II prior to the 'death of the dinosaurs' no matter how you cut it.

  9. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    So what? There's nothing that I know of in Hubbard's writings that ties the dino disaster to Incident 2, although I might have missed it.

    H-bombs in all the volcanoes listed on the OT3 platens wouldn't wipe out all life on the entire planet at all. Nowhere near it. In Class VIII tape 10 Hubbard talked about (from my memory) 300 mph winds sweeping over the whole Earth, but that is just silly.

    Yeah, yeah. :)

    Now, around 1967 when Hubbard was concocting this garbage, the generally assumed date for that Cretaceous–Tertiary extinction event was 75 mya and not the 65.5 mya that it is today, as Veda kindly documented here a while ago. So he obviously tried to make the two match.

  10. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    I'll agree with that. My actual point is that the Incident II rationalizers attempt to *use* actual evidence to support Ron's claims re Xenu etc. which is itself a slippery slope :)

    It's led to much levity when people point out that the 'hawaian islands' didn't exist at the time and, I'm just helping by pointing out that *other* hawaian islands *did* :)

    Let the games continue!

  11. Pepin

    Pepin Patron with Honors

    The water was very blue and the volcano to the right of a flat area. I don't think it was a big island at all
  12. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I guess we're still waiting for the OPer to justify his trollish OP about Forde's refutation of OT3 actually being a validation of it.

    But don't hold your eruption.

  13. Axiom142

    Axiom142 Gold Meritorious Patron

    And let’s not forget about the Canary Islands. Hubbard said that there was an implant station smack where the city of Las Palmas is, on the Island of Gran Canaria.

    Trouble is, the whole chain of Canary Islands are no more than a few million years old. Some of the islands are still volcanically active. And if you’ve ever been there, you can see that the islands are still very rugged and rocky, which is what you’d expect from islands that haven’t had enough time to ‘weather in’ and lose their rockiness.

    So how could an implant station exist on an island that wasn’t even there 75 million years ago?

  14. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    It was supported on an anti-grav platform, dummy! Don't you know anything? :)

  15. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    A previous culture of Smurfs built a Smurfyland type artificial island 80 million years ago and, being very neat Smurfs, they dismantled and recycled it after that bastard Xenu trashed the place.

    See? it's easy.

  16. cybersurf

    cybersurf Banned

    Forde explains that Meigi is a guyot, and guyots have a flat top because they reached the surface. Let me put the scientific explanation for this.
  17. cybersurf

    cybersurf Banned

    Shocked quartz is the result of nuclear explosions or metheorit impacts. According to scientific literature.

    Wait. Forde explains that 75 million years ago Hawaii is Meigi Guyot, and guyots have flat tops because they reached the surface. Accorging to scientific literature.

    Right. That means that the hawaian islands of 75 million years ago are not near the aleutians.

    Wow! Howz bout the 'Church' dumps their other 'research' and getsa sub to find the *real* volcano?

  18. cybersurf

    cybersurf Banned

    The cause and exact timing of the death of the dinosaurs has not been determined yet, it spreads over millions of years. The white dust layer atributed as the cause of the death of dinosaurs is not a single defined incident on Earth. It could be caused by huge volcanic activity or a huge comet impact. Much more magnitude than nuclear blasts on Earth.
  19. cybersurf

    cybersurf Banned

    300 mph winds do happen in nuclear explosions, but they are a local event. Does Hubbard specifically say "whole Earth"?

    Yeah, yeah. :)


    Interesting theory, but the Cretaceous - Tertiary boundary and the extintion are different dates.
  20. Rmack

    Rmack Van Allen Belt Sunbather

    I'm talking about the gravity field of the entire universe, not just earth.

    I sure as hell can't do that math, and I've heard several lectures, and read a couple of papers by astrophysicists who should know if anyone does, and they claim no one knows for sure. 'Dark matter'; how much and all that plays a part.

    According to some of them, the Earth could be much younger than what is suggested by distant starlight.

    Sure, the little bit of study I've done in this area seems to point out that accepted geology is inconsistent with the OT 3 story. But, accepted geology is based on more speculation and assumption than most people think.

    Take radiometric dating; The idea is you start with how much of an element is in a test specimen, and knowing the decay rate, you can get a pretty good idea how old something is. Like potassium degrading to argon. This works great with organic materials where you can get a good reading on a new piece of stuff, like wood for instance.

    However, when they date non-organic material HUGE assumptions on how much of the beginning material was present and how much of the new element that develops was there in the first place. They literally tweak the numbers until it fits into their pre-conceived notions.

    The real age of the Earth is very much not firmly established, no matter how authoritarian some people try to sound.

    The OT three story is ridiculous for other reasons. Rocket engined airplanes? You would need more than that to travel between solar systems.

    I'm not a huge science fiction geek, but I've read a good deal. This story was kind of lame in the fifties, but it's really hoary now. I mean, come on, Laffy was a sci-fi writer! And he comes up with a bad sci fi concept to build his cult on. I thought E. E. 'Doc' Smith and the lensmen series was a lot more provocative.

    And don't let 'Iknowtoomuch' see this, or he'll shit a brick, but there are some people who suspect the universal legends of 'dragons' that exist in all cultures, as well as some sea serpent stories and what not might be indicative of dinosaurs living much, much later that these 'experts' claim.

    Look at the Coelacanth. The authorities assured us this fish had been extinct for at least 65 million years according to the fossil record....that is until a live one was caught.

    They really don't know squat for sure, they are just really good at assuming a position of authority and spouting wildly speculative theory as hard scientific fact.

    Last edited: Aug 20, 2009