Scientology Exec Jennifer Watari sends letter to intimidate ESMB poster, FAILS.

[Leland]

I certainly didn't mean to come across that way.

I've been under attack from the Cult since I left in 2001. I've stated this a few times.....

Of course my situation is a bit different.....I feel I am under "spiritual" attack of a sorts....

The longer I live.....the crazier I think the Cult is.....and was.

This is all on top of realizing I WAS and everyone WAS under attack since starting in the Cult.

I was thinking about Phoenix8 and 2nd generation Cult members today....and realized....that it is possible that 2nd generation never "agreed" to be in the Cult.....like 1st generation members did.

Of course....growing up in the Cult is a whole different kettle of fish....and I can't talk to that. But is seems that it would be different from those that were "true believers" of their own choice....and having to abandon that choice and start over. (so to speak)

 

[CommunicatorIC]

Somebody PMed me concerning the subject matter of this thread. I want to tell this person that I cannot respond to their PM because that person has exceeded that person's storage quota and cannot receive my reply.

 

[Phoenix8]

Re: Scientology Exec sends letter to intimidate ESMB poster, FAILS.

Many were supportive and understanding. Many weren't and some others were harsh. I didn't really expect that me popping-in after a year would even cause be a debate. I'm a real woman. All grown up lol! That's why I decided that is come back and help fill in the blanks without over sharing.

Honestly, I didn't expect a debate. And many were supportive but others were just cruel and demeaning. But I guess people will do what they will. We're all different, with different lifestyles and whatnot.

I think the more hostile posters is what really made me feel unwelcome and dismissed as paranoid and delusional. Right in the feels. I honestly don't care about skeptics -- what matters is this: I decided I was not going to allow OSA to continue to silence me and be fearful anymore for simply being outward and open. I'm detached from CoS for over a decade. With that said, Why should I allow them to keep silently manipulating me through backhanded, threats and fear tactic threats? Fuck that. Lol

Again, I'm really grateful to see the humility in your recent posts. It is really reassuring even if we don't agree on everything. I'm glad you're being real and objective

Want a beer? Hahaha:
cheers2:

There are a few ways to view the debate, meaning from an emotional way or a logical way. Questions being asked are from a logical way.

Now that you have filled in some blanks, why logic dictates.

From a supportive point of view, everybody who posted on this tread did have concern and support.

One view being being it's the usual reg letter, no need to worry about it and just ignore it.

I'm UTR myself and receive lots of letters, promo, calls. I just ignore them and do not respond back.

 

[Free to shine]

Re: Scientology Exec sends letter to intimidate ESMB poster, FAILS.

I feel like @dchoiceisalwaysrs is absolutely right and you articulated very great points in your post. Thank you!

I've been waiting a couple of days to post again because I have been feeling a bit offended and put-off by certain posters. Why has this turned into a debate? I came on here to offer a little more of my story with you all, to add to what was on the blog post. I was hoping for more of a support system, but perhaps I'm in the wrong place? I've tried to come on here and clear up the fuzzy details as best I can, so that the conspiracy theories and preconceived ideas could be laid to rest. I've already offered more details about my scenario than I had originally cared to. I also feel like some posters on here are completely dismissive of what I've experienced this past year. Others have been very understanding, supportive and thoughtful - thank you. I'm a real person and an ex-SO child who was heavily indoctrinated. I thought this message board was about supporting exes?

I understand, I do. The thing is that it's a message board made up of individuals, and those individuals all have a point of view based on where they are at in the various stages of exiting scientology themselves, or may never have been in (or maybe even still in). Also not everyone who reads actually posts, it depends on who is online at the time. It's a melting pot of ideas and opinions, which can be uncomfortable at times. And that is also the wonder of it, opinions can be expressed.

I understand the 'generational' viewpoint more than most, yet people who have not experienced it may question things we know to be how it is. As Leyland says, we did not agree to be in a cult, we left and had to find out for ourselves what 'normal' life is. And even that is weird, with OSA and so on.

The best advice I can give is to not take it personally. Because it really isn't, in the manner of words on a screen on the internet. You don't have to convince anyone and to try to do so will only cause you further distress. As you said, some people are supportive and others want to debate. Ignore the posts that make you feel bad, go with the ones that make you feel better, and look after yourself first and foremost. It's your story, your life and you don't owe anyone anything.

 

[Gib]

Re: Scientology Exec sends letter to intimidate ESMB poster, FAILS.

Want a beer? Hahaha:
cheers2:

I do. I also wish I could have one with everybody here.

 

[Phoenix8]

Somebody PMed me concerning the subject matter of this thread. I want to tell this person that I cannot respond to their PM because that person has exceeded that person's storage quota and cannot receive my reply.

Do you know this person? Would you be willing to private message me about this mystery pm?

 

[Phoenix8]

Leland, to me, you never came across negatively. My message wasn't direct at you whatsoever. You were honest and helpful. Just want to set the record straight!!

I certainly didn't mean to come across that way.

I've been under attack from the Cult since I left in 2001. I've stated this a few times.....

Of course my situation is a bit different.....I feel I am under "spiritual" attack of a sorts....

The longer I live.....the crazier I think the Cult is.....and was.

This is all on top of realizing I WAS and everyone WAS under attack since starting in the Cult.

I was thinking about Phoenix8 and 2nd generation Cult members today....and realized....that it is possible that 2nd generation never "agreed" to be in the Cult.....like 1st generation members did.

Of course....growing up in the Cult is a whole different kettle of fish....and I can't talk to that. But is seems that it would be different from those that were "true believers" of their own choice....and having to abandon that choice and start over. (so to speak)

 

[strativarius]

<snip>

Of course....growing up in the Cult is a whole different kettle of fish....and I can't talk to that. But is seems that it would be different from those that were "true believers" of their own choice....and having to abandon that choice and start over. (so to speak)

I sympathise wholeheartedly with 2nd and 3rd generation scientologists. Those like me who joined 'voluntarily' have a clear idea where normal day-to-day behaviour and vocabulary ends, and 'scienothink' and 'scienospeak' begins. Those who have grown up in the cult have no idea. When I first joined ESMB I noticed some posters who called themselves 'exes' were still using scieno terms, and it took me a while to realise that they didn't know any better.

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

Re: Scientology Exec sends letter to intimidate ESMB poster, FAILS.

I understand, I do. The thing is that it's a message board made up of individuals, and those individuals all have a point of view based on where they are at in the various stages of exiting scientology themselves, or may never have been in (or maybe even still in). Also not everyone who reads actually posts, it depends on who is online at the time. It's a melting pot of ideas and opinions, which can be uncomfortable at times. And that is also the wonder of it, opinions can be expressed.

I understand the 'generational' viewpoint more than most, yet people who have not experienced it may question things we know to be how it is. As Leyland says, we did not agree to be in a cult, we left and had to find out for ourselves what 'normal' life is. And even that is weird, with OSA and so on.

The best advice I can give is to not take it personally. Because it really isn't, in the manner of words on a screen on the internet. You don't have to convince anyone and to try to do so will only cause you further distress. As you said, some people are supportive and others want to debate. Ignore the posts that make you feel bad, go with the ones that make you feel better, and look after yourself first and foremost. It's your story, your life and you don't owe anyone anything.

There is a lot of free association thinking on the Board. Some comments might be directed and it can become more generalized within the same post as we tap into our own similar experiences or direct comments to less familiar readers who may be never-ins, etc.

We don't have all the specifics and anyone who is supportive of this kind of situation will not want them to be revealed just for our benefit and we would not want to cause an emotional conflict that would trip someone up in a way to reveal information that could be used by OSA.

This outfit is creepy as it is. Their routine Central Files policies and dogged determinism to find you until you die (and later) is straight out of the mind of someone who mandated both children and adults locked in dark windowless rooms in bilges and basements under guard where their screams could not be heard. Defining stalking under these circumstances is a matter of degree and suggesting that someone should not be paranoid isn't the same as saying they aren't really being stalked or they actually are paranoid. It can just be a friendly suggestion that you don't let all this crap get to you, live your life on your own terms.

On a separate note, it must be disconcerting to OSA to know that the world no longer operates in a way where information could be suppressed within tolerable risk levels of exposure as when their founding guiding policies and procedures were cast in stone. The reality now is that anything and everything they do and the people associated with it can eventually be added to the public archive with docs and in detail and any ops activities can be disseminated world wide in real time. Even if this were an "innocent" CF letter sent out in poor taste, the history makes it impossible to discern from deliberate harassment and it will become the subject of debate for hundreds or thousands of people.

What is the quote on that letterhead for "GOLDEN AGE OF KNOWLEDGE"?

"If any lesson is contained in Scientology it is the lesson that the gates to all knowledge........"

....end up at the Bunker?

 

[lotus]

Re: Scientology Exec sends letter to intimidate ESMB poster, FAILS.

bold mine

*Excerpt

This outfit is creepy as it is. Their routine Central Files policies and dogged determinism to find you until you die (and later) is straight out of the mind of someone who mandated both children and adults locked in dark windowless rooms in bilges and basements under guard where their screams could not be heard. Defining stalking under these circumstances is a matter of degree and suggesting that someone should not be paranoid isn't the same as saying they aren't really being stalked or they actually are paranoid. It can just be a friendly suggestion that you don't let all this crap get to you, live your life on your own terms.

*Excerpt


Even if this were an "innocent" CF letter sent out in poor taste, the history makes it impossible to discern from deliberate harassment and it will become the subject of debate for hundreds or thousands of people.

What is the quote on that letterhead for "GOLDEN AGE OF KNOWLEDGE"?

"If any lesson is contained in Scientology it is the lesson that the gates to all knowledge........"

....end up at the Bunker?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
All what you said so well
Thank you!

I remember saying to one of my friend : dont go paranoid with that (something cult related) means don't let this cult fear you and poison your life, as a friend would say.

That never intented to suggest he\she was mentally suffering of paranoia neither her\his fear wasn't based or real justified concern. (all fear are justified with CO$)
This is not like saying; ''you are a paranoid'' :confused2:

It's an expression that many of us use in normal wog language and frankly, often use to comfort people in trying to relax and live better. Is it the perfect reaction ????
May be not...but those are imperfect reactions of imperfect humans who care.

Anyway, I personnaly, am done with this thread!

 

[Adam7986]

Re: Scientology Exec sends letter to intimidate ESMB poster, FAILS.

Defining stalking under these circumstances is a matter of degree and suggesting that someone should not be paranoid isn't the same as saying they aren't really being stalked or they actually are paranoid. It can just be a friendly suggestion that you don't let all this crap get to you, live your life on your own terms.

Sorry to shave down your post to this, but I wanted to say on this we agree. It is dangerous and unhealthy to speculate on whether or not you are being stalked. In my case, unless I have definitive proof I don't ever assume that something is part of an OSA operation. I have talked to ex-Scientologists who blame OSA for everything. To the point that they accuse OSA of rearranging personal items or overfeeding their pets when they aren't home.

Paranoia when it comes to Scientology is definitely justified. But if you are going to be paranoid you have to be willing to put a stopper in it somewhere, i.e. don't blame everything negative in your life on OSA. Sometimes shit just happens.

I don't know if OP has me on ignore by now because s/he liked the personal insult that the other sock account leveled at me. But I've never once challenged your integrity, I have just tried to provide an alternate narrative that fits what you have put here. I tried to provide a narrative that cut out OSA completely so you could easily see that all of this could have happened without OSA's involvement. I have no idea why you got so angry at me, but nothing I said was meant to offend you or challenge what you stated as fact, and I am sorry if what I said upset you.

 

[Adam7986]

I sympathise wholeheartedly with 2nd and 3rd generation scientologists. Those like me who joined 'voluntarily' have a clear idea where normal day-to-day behaviour/vocabulary ends and 'scienothink' and 'scienospeak' begins. Those who have grown up in the cult have no idea. When I first joined ESMB I noticed some posters who called themselves 'exes' were still using scieno terms, and it took me a while to realise that they didn't know any better.

Likewise, I feel bad for 1st generation Scientologists because I have an easy answer to the question, "Why did you join Scientology?" It's difficult, nay impossible for me to understand the internal struggle of Scientologists who joined Scientology as opposed to those of us who were raised in or born into it. Especially those who brought children up in the cult only to later lose them to the cult when they leave.

And not just the survivor's guilt but the discomfort of having to answer questions just generally about why this, and why that. .The general population like to think they are "too smart" or "would never fall for something like that". Without realizing, that anyone can easily fall for something like this and people do. Scientology is far from one-of-a-kind.

 

[ethercat]

Some posts have been moved to Grudge Matches.

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[Adam7986]

Some posts have been moved to Grudge Matches.

​

Thank you!