Scientology & Imagination

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by HelluvaHoax!, Apr 10, 2012.

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  1. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    ...

    I lived in the tech world when i was in Scientology. Training people. Auditing them. C/Sing, et al.

    I personally witnessed first hand how the tech "worked" and then later I left Scientology because actually it didn't work. That debate rages on endlessly, I know, I know, I know. LOL.

    Earlier tonight i noticed one of the "tech" threads here and people are still talking about the GPM tech and all kinds of esoterica and ways to get an effect using Scientology.

    It does produce an effect. No doubt about that.

    But, here is what I have come to understand/realize/recognize/believe (4 choices so I don't offend everyone), many years after my Hubbard Hangover had gone away (Scientology was a rough party! lololol)

    HH's WIN (now nobody can invalidate me, right, since i used the "W" word?): Scientology is a kind of exercise or workout for the imagination.

    Like physical exercise, it produces a "high".

    But it doesn't "blow charge" or "clear" anyone. And it certainly does not lead to a state of Operating Thetan, despite the lofty words of "OTs" describing their own "state".

    Pushing the mind to imagine is a very cool thing.

    Having done a lot of creative work, I can say without any qualification that using the creative part of the mind has the identical "high" that comes from auditing.

    EXAMPLE: I went into a room with another person. But instead of it being my auditor, it was my writing collaborator on a movie script. We imagined all kinds of stories, much like "going whole track". Then we tried to figure out problems (the characters) much the same as a person would in auditing. After a while there would be a "Eureka!" moment and we'd know the solution. That's like the end phenomena in auditing. I can guarantee that if I was on a meter, it would F/N. But I didn't attain immortality, I had just worked out some imaginary scenario and figured it all out to my satisfaction.

    The same thing typically happens when I am writing here on ESMB. It produces a swell of good feeling ("theta"). But it's not a road to total freedom.

    The whole thing (Scientology) is just an imaginary set of exercises. Nobody goes free. Everyone still lives a normal life and dies at the end. Sorry! It's not that I don't believe in any magic in life, but Scientology ain't got magic. There is magic in other things...children laughing, love, romance, music, art.....too many to list.

    Oh yeah! One other thing. Scientology USES imagination to get a "high" but it strictly prohibits Scientologists from going outside of session and continuing to use their imagination. This creates a hideous mental trap for Scientologists.

    It actually f*cks Scientologists up, because they become inhibited and scared of their own imagination.

    Is this too vague? Example needed? Okay, imagine a Scientologist saying (in an Org) that they just had a creative idea that if a certain process was run a different way that it could produce better results. What would happen? They would be declared SP, that's what would happen. Why? Because they dared to use their imagination, which is the biggest sin in Scientology.

    Why is it the worst thing a Scientologist can do? Because only Ron is allowed to use the imagination. He used it to create the Bridge for which people pay a half-million dollars or more. If anyone else can imagine things then Ron or Dave or Marty cannot be the all-powerful leader. Simple.

    As far as the auditing "processes" (commands) go, I could make up 20 completely arbitrary, nonsensical processes in the next hour, out of thin air, and if people just focused on those silly commands, they would get "case gain".

    Focus and imagination do that.

    END OF PART I (I imagine there is more)
     
  2. TheRealNoUser

    TheRealNoUser Patron with Honors

    Don't undersell yourself HH. Your writings have probably helped people to achieve a more valuable and greater degree of freedom than anything Hubbard wrote.

    Freedom from Scientology !

    TRNU.
     
  3. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    My God! The highest compliment anyone could possibly ever pay me.

    Thankssssssssss!!!
     
  4. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    ..


    Sometimes when I am talking to a Scientologist and they just cannot connect to any of the things that are "real" to ordinary people, it is amazing to watch them shut down their imagination.

    For example, I had a talk the other day with a Scn. celebrity and asked them if they heard about the media coverage of "alleged" beatings at Int Base. I just softly let it float into conversation without sermonizing--and just just meekly asked them what they thought about it.

    Naturally, I knew that they hadn't thought about it.

    Or if they had thought about it, I knew that whatever they thought was the thought given to them by the same Int Management that was doing the beatings. In other words, they didn't have any original thought of their own.

    So, I patiently waited for them to tell me how it simply was untrue.

    Now, here is the part I really enjoyed. I looked them square in the eye and gently asked them: "Well, do you think it's possible that any little bit of the story might be true?"

    This, in my experience, stops Scientologists dead in their tracks. For a couple reasons, the first one of which is that Scientologists are indoctrinated and carefully trained to obey orders to "look inside" for an answer when given a command.

    So, they "look into their bank", fearful that it is out-ethics to not look and confess all.

    Remarkable indoctrination! They are kind of easy to control when you give them little questions that are similar to auditing commands. LOLOL.

    The other reason they are like a deer frozen in the headlights is that the question sparks their imagination ("...do you think it is possible that......?"

    The imagination is a good road out.

    Stimulating the imagination creates curiosity.

    And curiosity leads to reading the forbidden internet.

    We all know where that ends up. (yellow fellow ESMBers and cherished lurkers!)
     
  5. GoNuclear

    GoNuclear Gold Meritorious Patron

    Ah, but there is magic in Scientology, but only for the very few at the very top ... and that is the magic to create the lifestyle that you always dreamed of! The true secrets of this magic were covetted by the elite few like Ronny and Davey, and the methodology was hit and miss at times ... until now! The secrets of the master cult gurus have been revealed and now you too
    through the magic of my TV offer success kit can MAKE BIG MONEY IN THE CULT BUSINESS! There are LITERALLY MILLIONS of people out there looking for answers, with no direction in life, for whom their freedom, their time, and their money is a TERRIBLE BURDEN. If YOU step up and PROVIDE them with the answers they have been looking for ... meaning for their meaningless existence, and some productive activity that will keep them busy ... they will be forever grateful to you and reward you handsomely with a lifestyle beyond you wildest dreams! Imagine ... having thousands of dedicated followers willing to go out and hustle 2, 3, or even 5 hundred dollars a day for you for just a few plates or rice and beans, a tiny bunking area shared with a few dozen of their fellow believers, and some indoctrination and chanting! Yes, your new and exciting lifestyle of MAKING BIG MONEY IN THE CULT BUSINESS is just a toll free phone call away!
    The TV offer success kit is available right now for the unbelieveably low price of only $39.95 plus shipping and handling ... AND ... for the first 100 callers, there is a BONUS CD ... "How To Seduce underage female follwers and get away with it!" But ya gotta call now, operators are standing by!

    And I hope it will be YOU up here with me with YOUR success story on the next edition of our infomercial ... MAKING BIG MONEY IN THE CULT BUSINESS!!!

    Pete
     
  6. GoNuclear

    GoNuclear Gold Meritorious Patron

    On a more serious note ... but first an analogy. Someone I knew years back was a "patriot paralegal" by the name of Jon. When I had some difficulty with the IRS ... not knowing nearly as much as I do now ... a friend of mine knew this fellow and had him give me a call. I picked up the fone and said "Hello?" and the first words out of this fellow's mouth were "Fuck the IRS!" We shared the same sentiments, obviously ... but Jon claimed to have a method. (Be patient, you will see the point here shortly, I promise.) Now Jon was not particularly interested in the all of the theories regarding administrative procedure, delegation of authority, or anything in the IRS's own internal manuals, nor was he interested in who actually owed income tax and who didn't, was the tax a direct tax or an indirect tax, etc. No, Jon was only interested in results. He knew, from experience, that if you wanted to keep things kewl and mellow, about the last thing you wanted was to be marked, in the eyes of the IRS, an "illegal tax protestor." That meant no squaring off with them, no accusing them of being the crooks, a den of vipers, etc. What that meant was keeping them at bay in the most mellow way possible.

    Jon knew that there was a very high turnover of personel at the IRS, and he also knew that their computer system was upgaphugged (this was in the 1980's and no longer relevant.) He also knew that your case would be handled by some low level paper pusher with no personal stake (unless you pissed him or her off) and that the name of the game was to get lost in the shuffle. So he would write letters on your behalf that he would have you sign. It was important to start writing back from the very first "DEAR TAXPAYER" letter you got from them. In the letter, he would adopt a tone of slight fear and panic ... you were just a poor shlub who was trying to work with them ... but you were sure that you had taken care of everything and that they were somehow mistaken. He would also use a system of reference numbers on the letters that you sent them.

    The IRS would reply, you would send anonther poor shlub letter back to them, with another reference number that somehow jjived with the first reference number as if in some sort of filing system. The IRS would reply again. Of course, they would be using their standard series of computer generated letters, and not a personal one. So the next reply to the IRS would inquire as to which referenced number letter they were replying to. This would go back and forth a few times, and eventually the IRS would have to bang out a letter that required a live robot instead of the computer to spit out a letter, as evidence by them using a reference number. Then you would reply back, using more questions and more reference numbers. Pretty soon, your case, handled by some pissy little bureau'rat, would be all about your reference numbers and not about weather or not you owed, and, since corresponding with you was not particularly productive, you might get a year or so worth of relief as your shit would be buried underneath a huge stack of other work. In the mean time, your bureau'rat might leave for another job, go on maternity leave, etc. For added fun, you could have, at a price, thru Jon's contacts in other parts of the country, the letter originating at an address that would be handled by another service center. This created additional opportunity for your case to be lost in the shuffle. Bottom line ... this was half of Jon's income, and he wasn't doing badly, not at all. I think his client of longest standing was with him for over 9 years without the IRS getting him for back taxes.

    Well, that was a funny story, hope you enjoyed it ... and that is Scientology. You came in as a public, and, like most, had great wins on the el cheapo intro course doing TR's. For me they were magic, the $25 bux for the weekend course was worth every cent, and I had a lot of fun with it. And this thing called auditing sounded fantastic, and there was this promise of way higher abilities. If you were someone with imagination plus some unwanted emotional baggage and a desire to be handed some extraordinary abilities and someone presented you a solution ... wow! But, pretty soon, the conversation wasn't about gaining new abilities or losing unwanted emotional baggage ... it was all about what reference number you were referring to. There was always another prerequisite added in, or a routing form here or a trip to ethics there or a friendly sit down with the redge, not to mention stats for this and stats for that. You were switched off of going for oatee abilities and switched onto scientological adminstrative quagmire. IT WAS THAT WAY BY DESIGN BECAUSE THE VAUNTED PHUGGEN TECH THAT EVERYBODY WORSHIPED COULDN'T PRODUCE THE RESULTS THAT IT CLAIMED TO. Plain and simple.

    Now, what about the imagination thing????????????? Yes, it CAN be developed, and there are some great applications for it ... particularly when we more narrowly define "imagination" as "focused visualization." The phenomenal memory course that I started and need to get back on uses that, could easily be adapted to the auditing comm cycle and would probably be far easier, faster, more effective, etc.

    There are all manner of useful things that the HubTurd either invented or plagarized. I suspect that most of what was useful he plagarized. But, why not use what you found useful and phug all of the green volume crap that had you chasing your own tail.

    Pete
     
  7. Stat

    Stat Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thank you, HH.
     
  8. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    Imagination is something that can and should be cultivated. Creative artists and scientists have it by the bucket full, but not really scientologist artists and this could be why.

    In creating whole track civilizations Ron seems to have just slightly reshuffled this one. Slightly better sci fi shuffles it a bit more so you get lizard people, but that's not really imaginative, or hubbard's viral based lifeform. This is hardly stretching anything is it. There have been very few really imaginative scientologists. It's hard to be imaginative and creative in a mental dictatorship.
     
  9. BardoThodol

    BardoThodol Silver Meritorious Patron

    HH,

    Just for an anecdotal test of your theory, when I was leaving the SO I had those ridiculous O/W sessions. Having seen that the o/w write-ups went straight to the Guardian's Office, I wasn't about to put my sins in the public domain.

    So, I just invented stuff. Made it up. All delivered with innocent sincerity. All concentrating on past track crap just to keep the auditor interested.

    And sure enough, they went to EP. Lots of floating needles. Over imagination.

    So, I know firsthand that using intentionally using imagination to fabricate and "as-is" incidents produces "results."
     
  10. Lamb

    Lamb Patron with Honors

    my last sec checks with hco were pure denial of any and all overts and I f/n'd every question knowing I was not even interested in any of the questions and that if anything did show up, I still didn't care. Not caring at all was part of my imagination...
     
  11. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    Sounds like an ARCx F/N. A person can F/N when they "go out of comm" with whatever was restimulating them, just as they can F/N when they "as-is" something. The meter is unreliable. :)
     
  12. BardoThodol

    BardoThodol Silver Meritorious Patron

    With old age and the threat of dementia approaching, I sometimes wonder what might stave off an embarrassing end to a less than stellar life. I know it will end. But, how about ending with some dignity?

    A recurrent theme in accomplishing this is the use of imagination. Exercising the brain. The more neural pathways we create, the less likely we are to suffer from Alzheimer's.

    Which makes me wonder: what kind of neural pathways are created in Scientology processing?

    I know my wondering that might be met with derision. But, something does occur in processing to keep people coming back for more. I had some fantastic experiences while being audited.

    It would be interesting to scientifically examine exactly what happens in the brain. Are pleasure centers stimulated? Are new pathways generated?
     
  13. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    Associations are broken. New pathways are definitely generated. The new may be just as delusional as the old. :)
     
  14. BardoThodol

    BardoThodol Silver Meritorious Patron

    You know, a lot of conditions get a bad rap. Maybe "delusional" isn't all bad. Falling in love is often delusional. We assign all sorts of attributes and perfections to the person that later turn out to be wrong. But having those delusions are soooooo fun while they last.

    Maybe it's a shades of gray issue. So much delusion that your life is ruined. Or selected delusions that make life more entertaining.

    But, if a person really wants to make having delusions a horrible thing, defining delusion as different from illusion as different from imagination as different from reality as different....

    What we perceive with our eyes is NOT what actually exists. So, is it real or delusion?

    Personally, I don't care. As long as it's fun and entertaining, I'll take a double serving of delusion with an order of curly fries. Yum, yum.
     
  15. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    Cog: "I am a green banana!" FTA, VVGI's. "Which banana do I go to to attest?"

    [​IMG]
     
  16. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    It's all delusion, IMO. Even our sense of self. Outside of the matrix, the self does not exist.
     
  17. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    Ain't that a fact.
     
  18. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    In a sense ANY view we have is a delusion. Each of us MUST "add to the mix" to live a life. It isn't a question of not being deluded or not contributing to an illusion, but of CHOOSING a positive, decent and uplifting version of delusions/illusions that do NOT hurt others, and that helps others (to a lesser and greater degree). And THAT is part of MY delusion/illusion! :thumbsup:

    All "ideals" involve 1) the realm of thought attempting to 2) impinge upon and affect "reality". Any person who truly exists as "Let It Be", "go with the flow", "the Universe is perfect just as it is", and "non-resistance" has completely abandoned ALL "ideals" and any attempt to mold reality in alignment with ones "ideas, concepts, wishes, views beliefs and ideals". And THAT to some IS an "ideal". :duh:
     
  19. BardoThodol

    BardoThodol Silver Meritorious Patron

    So, let's just have some fun and enjoy the hell out of whatever you want to call all this stuff.
     
  20. BardoThodol

    BardoThodol Silver Meritorious Patron

    The one with the pea under it, silly. Any good shell game has a pea.
     

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