Scientology Reformation Movement

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by TruthRevealed, Nov 30, 2010.

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  1. TruthRevealed

    TruthRevealed Patron

    I have recently watched BBC's Panorama on Scientology, and was interested in knowing a bit more about the Reformation Movement in America. Can any of you shed any light on this, and does anyone know if this is also happening in Australia?
  2. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    As far as I know, there is no Scientology Reform movement. It's actually a contradiction in terms. Scientology is as LRH laid it out. Changes from that format by definition make it no longer scientology. Thus, either you do things as LRH described (including the SO, RPF, conditions formulas, targeting critics, intelligence operations against government targets, etc.) or you don't, in which case it is not Scientology anymore.
  3. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    It could be referring to "Independent Scientology," which has existed since the 50s, but some people have recently hijacked the name and pretend that the idea is new, and theirs. The people congregate around Marty Rathbun and post on his blog at, as well as related blogs like But his is the main rallying point, Hip hip. . . !

  4. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    :thumbsup: Right to the point!

    There can no longer be "Scientology" within a framework of "reformation".

    But that doesn't mean that someone can't CONVINCE some or many people that such a thing is possible. People can believe any sort of nonsense - and many do every second of every day.
  5. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    If that principle held true, then nobody would be able to call themselves "reformed church" of anything, yet it happens all the time.
  6. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    It would seem to me that the way in which lrh set it up there is no way to deviate from what he set down as the way it had -and - has - to be.

    Reform = PR BS
  7. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    But Fluffy, there has NEVER been another "religion" or "movement" that took some much time, effort and energy to MAKE SURE that it NEVER CHANGED (i.e. "reformed" being one possible version of change)!!!!!!

    Scientology IS very unique in that regard when compared to other movements and social activities.

    Hubbard took incredible effort to write ENDLESS policies that set out HOW it MUST be run, down to his anal-retentive exquisite detail of certain endless requirements (various EPs, "products", etc), and also to ensure the subject would NEVER CHANGE through an exactly set-up Qual, ethics, and everything else to monitor, detect, catch and CORRECT ANY DEVIATION from the subject. This sort of planning and behavior is NOT common in just about ANY "modern" religion. I am not saying that the Catholic Church doesn't "plan", it surely does, but the DEGREE to which Hubbard took "executing programs" and "getting things done just as intended", well, Scientology stands alone in this regard.

    You don't find things like:

    "Keeping Islam Working"


    "Hard Sell" by the minister at the local Christian Church soliciting donations, after he has just spent 3 hours doing TRs (to not betray his real feelings), TR lying, various "dissem drills", and other assorted "drilled practices" designed to MAXIMIZE the effectiveness of the indoctrination & selling tools. Oh, you find it in companies and MLM groups, but NOT most religions.

    Fluffernutter, in words not much unlike Hubbard's own, and he was RIGHT in this regard, humans seem to love to and generally will ALTER everything one touches. It might not even be a "human" factor alone, but ANYTHING existing in this universe eventually morphs into something else - given enough time. But also, people are notorious for "getting it wrong" - poor duplication or tendency to alter by way of "fixed ideas" and preconceived notions in ones thinking.

    So, yes, many other "isms" and "ologies" suffer from, or go through an endless changing into something else. Hubbard was unique in this, and maybe entirely alone, in that he clearly recognized this tendency for human created things to change (a correct observation as I see it), and he took amazing far-past-the-usual efforts to prevent it from happening to HIS subject. That the thing he was trying to stop from morphing into something else, the subject of Scientology itself, was grossly flawed, is another topic entirely.

    Saying it "happens all of the time", while using other past religions as examples of "reformation", is NOT a valid comparison, because ONLY Hubbard and Scientology, within the large expanse of ALL religions, involve EXTENSIVE carefully laid-out intentions, plans, programs and policies, right down to amazing detail, with exact patter, exact responses, and so forth, specifically designed to realize the clearly stated INTENTION of "a subject left forever unchanged" by the "reactive" impulses of humans with avid cravings to be liked. A policy or essay like "KSW" is NOT common in other "isms" or "ologies".

    On an IQ test:

    Scientology is to KSW


    The Catholic Church is to ( blank).

    It's a trick question. None of the other religions have anything even closely resembling such an intention, plan, design, or aim.

    Flunk! :omg:

    But, you know I love you anyway. :yes:
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2010
  8. This pretty much says it all, there really isn't anything else to say
  9. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    Scientology? Going Down? Why, yes it is.

    Reform it with a fucking yard sale of all it's physical assets.
  10. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Really, Gaddy?

    So those anti heretic auto da fes in the Catholic Church were imaginary?
  11. The Great Zorg

    The Great Zorg Gold Meritorious Patron

    Clam reform?

    That's kind of like saying that Nazism is going to be reformed. :unsure:

    Reformed into what? :confused2:

    The core of scientology, the indoctrination and hypnotic programming is rotten and foul; the only 'reform' possible is total elimination. :unsure:

    I'm all for that. :yes: :thumbsup:
  12. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    It's a matter of degree, frequency, complexity of the programs, etc.

    Of course, many other "isms" and "ologies" have taken, often severe actions to shut up dissenters and eradicate the real or imagined "heretics", but for actual written out, carefully thought out and planned detailed controlled machinations - Hubbard is the "model" for all others to emulate.

    I still wonder, half-heartedely at times, if Scn wasn't a government-controlled PsyOps program (sort of like Jonestown before it went off), in cahoots with behavioral psychologists, to "test" and ascertain the variables and details of "people control".

    Anyway, time will tell. I predict, based on the factual setup of the C of S, which is based on Hubbard's extensive writings, that it will NEVER be able to reform (change) to any marked degree while maintaining any moderate majority of Hubbard's writings as policy.

    Though, as always, and as seems to be more common than I would like, reality tends to do whatever it wants - and it pays little attention to whatever I have to think about it! :duh:

    Though, with my current frame of mind, I care very little about what happens or doesn't happen to the whole Scientology "problem". Evil? Evil is part of the world. It comes and goes like any other season. It takes on new clothes from time to time, and tricks us for awhile. But, it always gets spotted, receives its deserved criticism, morphs into something else, sooner or later, and within the gaze and purview of infinity, it really all "doesn't mean shit to a tree" (ref: Jefferson Airplane). :confused2:
  13. TruthRevealed

    TruthRevealed Patron

    Until reading that I was still wondering that if the management of Scientology (both Hubbard & Miscavige, and whoever else there is to follow) were to have been or be different, could it work?

    But I think you've hit the nail on the head there...I'd have to say I'm convinced! :thumbsup:
  14. Mystic

    Mystic Banned

    We who know are reforming all of scientology into:

  15. paradox

    paradox ab intra silentio vera

    Hmm. I believe there is, in fact, precedence for hubbard's scheme, maybe even the source from which he "borrowed" his ksw ideas. Perhaps not cast in iron, but purportedly in stone. I'm not a hebrew scholar but, for instance,

  16. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    Indeed! Reformation? What's the point? :whocares:
  17. The Great Zorg

    The Great Zorg Gold Meritorious Patron


    The future of scientology: a clam pile? :confused2:
  18. tora! tora! tora!

    there is one great difference between the unalterability of tech and policy and the unalterability of torah.


    god who is god the living god

    i'm not much of a hebrew scholar myself. i'm more along the line of a mangy old hippie but...

  19. LongTimeGone

    LongTimeGone Silver Meritorious Patron

    Scientology is to KSW
    The Catholic Church is to the infallibility of the Pope.

  20. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

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