Scientology's view on depression/suicide

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by takecontrol, May 8, 2017.

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  1. takecontrol

    takecontrol New Member

    I've never personally been a member, however my dad did have a few interactions with the church in the 1970s. He visited the church in Boston but never signed up for anything. He did like the books and was interested in the church.

    Anyway, he told me that my mom called the Church of Scientology in Boston and told them my dad was suicidal and asked them for help.(I guess she called them because my dad showed interested in the CoS and at that point had a good view of them). She said their response was, "Well, tell him to kill himself." She quickly ended the call.

    My question is, what's scientology's view on someone depressed/suicidal? Does the above response fit into the belief system? If so, what book/lecture/etc does that come from? Or perhaps the person said that because my father hadn't purchased any auditing? Any insight into their response would be appreciated. Thanks
  2. EZ Linus

    EZ Linus BT-free since 2003!

    Scientology does not look kindly on people with depression or who are suicidal. First of all, they do not believe in "mental illness" as a thing, and the best way I can explain the suicide thing is that the training is geared to never have sympathy, (but empathy is okay) and this is difficult to differentiate for most Scientologists since most feelings of this nature are buried deep within their guts. Feeling vulnerable like this is looked down on, in my experience. There is a thing called a "Service Facsimile" and the bit about someone speaking aloud that they feel suicidal would not only make them ineligible for Scientology services, it is seen as that person purposely using their situation to get attention. Either way, it makes them a hopeless case. Scientology can't help them. The church wouldn't take on a case in that condition. They would think that person would be better off killing themselves and starting over again and coming back next lifetime.

    I was in Scientology for 20 years and had bipolar disorder the entire time, and it got worse as I got older. I had horrible, horrible depressive states. I can't even describe them they were so awful. Sheer hell. I had to totally hide it. I could not let anyone in Scientology know this was going on. Not even a friend. I'd be considered PTS, possibly Type III, and I just couldn't have that. I'd wait until I could bounce back again, which I could do for very long periods of time. I was resilient. I had no choice.

    In the cult you have to buck up. Never be a victim. Never feel bad, especially for your own self. And not if you're Clear or OT. You are to set an example. You need to be Cause at all times. When you are at the Effect end of shit, you are considered weak. If my brain cooties were pulling me into a black hole and I was letting it effect me, something was wrong with ME. I had overts.

    Once I was hit with a physical disability, that's when everything changed for me. THAT'S when the tables turned.
  3. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    scientology view is only to help the able become more able. Scientology does not want anything to do with depressed/suicidal people. Period.
  4. pineapple

    pineapple Patron with Honors

    Everything said above is very true.

    Also, when I was in, lower level staff often had no idea what the fuck they were doing. They were ill-fed, under-slept, and had only a hazy conception of the "tech" of scn. (Most staff are not auditors.) They were under a lot of pressure from seniors to produce and were often operating in a kind of "glee of insanity," to use a Hubbardian term. THEY ARE NOT IN GOOD EMOTIONAL SHAPE THEMSELVES. I can recall things said to public that were INCREDIBLY out-PR. If the person wasn't a paying public or another staff member, the attitude was "I'll say anything, why not?"

    Your mom may have been running into this "glee of insanity" factor, in addition to "scientology makes the able more able."
  5. WildKat

    WildKat Gold Meritorious Patron

    Scn is more interested in making money than in helping people with depression issues. In fact, if anyone were to speak of suicide (wanting to do it, thinking about it) they would be frog-marched to the door instantly, and told not to return.

    The fear is the horrible PR that results from someone suiciding on or near Scn premises, which has occurred. Actually, numerous Scn-ists have suicided and it is bad PR whether done on the premises or not. But they definitely wouldn't want you on course or getting auditing if you were a suicide risk.
  6. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    When I initially read that someone in the cofs said "Well, tell him to kill himself" I thought that would never have happened (due to the potential for "out PR") but to be fair that is exactly the kind of thing a scientologist would say, especially one who had been indoctrinated for a while.

    A scientologist will never accept any form of emotional blackmail (and someone threatening suicide would be viewed that way) so to respond as you described would (from their point of view) have been the correct way to "handle" the issue one way or the other ...

    In the cofs, money is paramount and the only product they have to sell is their "technology" ... so every opportunity is taken to demonstrate how "clever and knowledgeable in the ways of man" they are. They actually believe they have the technology to fix every single issue (or at least make them go away). To have made a statement like that to your Ma, which is the opposite to how a trained and genuine professional would react rings true to me, they certainly don't "do" any form of genuine empathy or sympathy ... unless there's money involved in which case they are trained to direct the person to a registrar (sales person) or act/perform themselves until they've got it.

    I hope it ended well and your Dad recovered.


  7. Demented Hubbatd

    Demented Hubbatd Patron with Honors

    I heard this story from two Scientologists.

    A Sea Org member was suffering greatly because her stats were low and she couldn't improve them. She wrote a note to LRH asking his permission to commit suicide. The permission was granted, so she killed herself.

    When my lady friend and I heard the story, we both laughed because it seemed far fetched. My friend said, "Do not need a KR for that!"
    Two months later I heard the same story at a Scientology seminar. At that time I thought that, most likely, the speaker was telling the truth.
  8. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    Interesting discussion. I think the key here is the word "threat". Unfortunately there are people who use the threat of suicide to manipulate others (I have a friend whose husband did that, threatening to take an overdose if she left him), but it doesn't sound as if your Dad was in that category so, bearing in mind what was at stake here, this can be put down to typical *CofS crass insensitivity if not stupidity (hey, why not both?).

    Rest assured that no mental health professional (and having a cousin who's a psychiatrist, I'm in a position to know) would ever tell someone who expressed a wish to kill themselves to just go ahead and do it. In fact, quite the reverse is true; they do everything possible to prevent such an outcome.

    I also hope your Dad recovered.

    * Church of Scientology.
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
  9. Miss Ellie

    Miss Ellie Patron with Honors

    They would not have been able to help him.
    He would have brought "dis-honor" on the organization.
    He probably did not have much money to pay.
    If he had killed himself on their watch it might have cost them money in a lawsuit.
    They did not know him - so why bother.
    They would not have been able to help him.

    Pick any or all of the above... start with the first or last statement.

    I am so sorry and hope your dad is better. I am sure this was very upsetting for your mom... again I am sorry.

    :duh: :duh: :duh:
  10. This is NOT OK !!!!

    This is NOT OK !!!! Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'm sorry to report that in practice this turns out not to be true.

    If the customer has $$$$$, then they will be talked into trying Scientology and Scientology only. The customer will be trained in the Ethics Department to never use the words depressed or suicidal. The customer will learn never to mention these types of feelings in session if at all possible and will try to control the meter with happy thoughts. The customer learns that the available options are to "glow it right" to have "positive postulates" and "make it go right" and lots of other thought stopping techniques.

    When the money runs out, the customer is kicked to the curb, is declared "Psychotic" and "Degraded Being" and other nonsense.

    But if there's no $ of any kind, then yes, they don't want anything to do with them.
  11. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    I'd say that $cientology has a very negative view on any sort of mental\emotional distress..

    According to the tech (tone scale, ethics, case..) any suicidal thought or act is considered as being a counter surviving act, thus low tone. (require attention and help)s
    Also, those action are seen as potential problems to $cientology especially if addressed with medical\psych care. (potential bad pr)

    Scientology never had, will never had any empathy, compassion for humane suffering..for they are inflicting it to their members purposely.

    Their main concern is either : the person has no more money and is a liability (to be disposed of..)
    or the person has money and can buy service..(them may be routed on introspection rundown \ heavy ethics handling \ processing...and closely watched)

    This is why any person having a vulnerability or experiencing distress shall be kept away of $ only can worsen.
    There is no care, no love, no attention, nothing that that is given with generosity and true concern.

    Best to you and your dad!
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
  12. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    People that are suicidal are a security risk in that if they commit suicide while receiving services then Scientology may be blamed and bring about bad PR. That's official policy. Money can be accepted but not for services.

    This is why Lisa McPherson is dead. Although she may have never been suicidal she did manifest a psychotic break and since David Miscavige was her C/S she was put under lock and key with medical neglect and purposefully taken a long distance for medical assistance to a Scientology doctor all in an effort to prevent bad PR. Since Scientology and Miscavige reside in the force band the very thing they so desparately wanted to avoid was factually created ten times worse through their preventative actions.

    This is why the very place with the "Tech" on PR is universally reviled, hated and considered as a joke...a mockery.
    Last edited: May 9, 2017

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