Seeking some information about Scientology for a podcast

Discussion in 'Welcome, Media People and Researchers, Ask Here fo' started by NFIH., Apr 30, 2017.

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  1. NFIH.

    NFIH. New Member

    Hi everyone! My name is Dennis. Let me first start this by saying that I have never been a part of the Church of Scientology. Although, I did go and try to talk to someone at their Atlanta location, but more on that later. I saw that people had posted questions on here to get a better understanding on Scientology, so I thought that this would be the place for me to post some genuine questions I have. I co-host a podcast called The Faith in Humanity Podcast about faith and religion where we talk to the average person about their stories, their faith, and how those things shape them now.
    I sent an email to someone at the Church of Scientology in Atlanta stating that I host this podcast and I explained what it was and included links so they could listen to some episodes to get an idea of what we talk about and the general tone of the podcast. The woman responded that I could come in and someone would help me out with that. When I got to the church the woman had no idea what my podcast was or even what a podcast was and didn’t know if I was allowed to record. I am pretty sure she told me that someone could help me out with the podcast just to get me in the doors. Either way, I watched this movie about the making of Dianetics while she talked to her boss about whether I was allowed to talk to someone and record. When the movie was over she told me that they did not do podcasts (I figured), but proceeded to try and sell me a bunch of stuff and get a personality test done. I did buy a copy of Dianetics and have been making my way through it over the past few days.
    I am reaching out on this forum because I am still very curious about the religion and hearing more about their core beliefs and practices, but I figured that trying to talk to someone who is currently involved in the church would be nearly impossible. I could do some google searches to find the answers, I am sure, but I want to hear answers from people who had lived in that culture, and if Scientology is anything like any other religion, then I am sure there are various degrees of beliefs within the religion itself which I find fascinating. I am not necessarily looking for someone to be on the podcast, although if anyone is interested in that I would love to have an interview with them, but more just trying to collect information. Also, I just want to be clear and let you all know that I am not in the business of debating theology or having any “gotcha questions”. Here at the podcast, we treat everyone with respect and never hold one belief system or faith above another. We believe that everyone has a story to tell and faith worth hearing. This is simply for my own understanding and hopefully, the listener learns something as well. I will NEVER use your names or usernames or where I got the information. If you have any questions please feel free to ask away on here or email me at TFIH.Podcast@gmail.com .

    Questions:
    Do you have services? If so, what do they look like?
    Do you have a God?
    Is there an afterlife? Is there a heaven or hell? How does one achieve going to “heaven” or even the afterlife?
    How did you see charity when you were involved in the church?
    How did you view/treat your peers who were not in the church? Your enemies?
    Why did you personally decide to join the church? What did your peers/family think? Why did you leave? Was it easy to leave?
    Do you still believe in the principles of Dianetics?
    Because I bought the Dianetics book they said I was entitled to a free therapy session. Do you think that would be a good idea to go to? For research purposes of course. What would I expect when I went? I have seen therapists before but something tells me this will be different.

    Thank you all so much for your help!
     
  2. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Goldenrod SP

    I think the first thing to understand is that it is a cult masquerading as a religion and operating as a business. Once you've got that then things become clearer.

    They don't have a god or do worship/prayers/services unless it's for PR purposes.

    If you go into one of their "churches" and ask for help they will tell you how much it will cost. Nothing is for free in scientology.

    As for what they believe, you won't find that out until you've spent several hundreds of thousands of dollars to get to the secret levels. Or of course you could look on the internet where it's free but scientologists will deny that this is the truth.
     
  3. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    1. A local org (organization) will probably have a Sunday service. Easy to Google. It's complete PR because "churches have services on Sunday" and is intended to show Scn is a religion. There are also marriage, funeral, naming ceremonies, similar in function to their non-Scn counterparts, but based on Scn ideas. Regular Scios attend these last three for the same reasons non-Scios attend ones in their own religion; but no-one goes to the Sunday service unless forced because everyone knows it's a sham.

    The meat of Scn is delivered in auditing and training services. "Taking services" in Scn means receiving auditing, or taking courses to (mainly) learn how to give auditing sessions to others. A training course can take literally hundreds of hours full time, months or more at 8-12 hours a day. It can take hundreds of hours of auditing to achieve a particular result: some results one considers worthwhile, some not. But it sometimes happens that one can achieve something so sublime in one short session that with no further gains of note one stays hooked for decades, hoping to recapture that ineffable moment if only for a short while.

    2. God = "The 8th Dynamic" in Scn (Scientology). Google "The 8 Dynamics" or read on a Scn site. But there is no role for God in Scn life, no personal interaction with the general Scio (Scientologist).

    3. A person consists of thetan (spirit), mind and body. The thetan is immortal, and reincarnates after death. Dying becomes "dropping the body", and at birth one "picks up a body". One needs do nothing special: everyone (more or less) reincarnates, whatever is believed or done in life, saints and sinners both. No heaven or hell.

    4. In Scn there are "upstats" (people who tend to be successful and productive) and "downstats" (losers). A staff member can vacillate between the two labels, depending on his weekly production, how many woofles he wiffled (nonsense terms) that week. But people tend to be chronically one or the other. So homeless people, those who are sick all the time, beggars, most people in third-world countries (i.e., they can't afford Scn training/auditing services) are downstats. Hubbard says "we charge for raising stats on any dynamic, and the more down the more we charge" (more or less verbatim). In other words, not much charity is officially endorsed in Scn, and any "charity work" an org does is for the PR and photo op, although the individual Scios involved might be of good will and genuinely trying to help.

    5. A non-Scio (never-in) is looked down on. Someone who has renounced Scn is shunned. Google "disconnection" in regard to Scn, but be prepared to get heartbroken.

    6. I liked the idea of helping others and from doing a basic course Scn seemed to have the answers (naive idealist, 1972). Friends/family tactfully said nothing. Joined staff (Sea Organization). Left the SO in 1996; not easy to do. I don't mean it was emotionally wrenching, I mean they don't easily let you go. Losing Scn wrong ideas and ways of thinking took me years and years, and required a LOT (tens of thousands of hours) of internet research and interaction, like on this message board. It would be easier now because in 2017 there's a lot more truth about Scn online than in 1996, but it still takes a lot to undo decades of indoctrination in something one whole-heartedly believed in.

    7. There are some useful things in Scn, but lots of traps and a newbie will never be able to pick out "the good stuff." A free Dianetics session from a friend all by itself is harmless, and may even be beneficial. But it is dangerous just because it could be beneficial: you might think, "Wow, this Scn stuff is fantastic!" and end up trapped in the cult for decades, spending all your money and losing all your friends for results that on reflection may not seem worth it. A Dianetics session is likely to last maybe an hour, and could vary tremendously based on what comes up and how the auditor (therapist) handles it. You might end up "running" an incident (reliving [sic] it to some extent) of loss, like a time your pet died, and afterwards you might feel some relief. This is all genuine (if it works).

    -----

    Scientology has changed over the last 10/20 years. In the 70s and 80s it operated much as above. Especially in the 70s, there were tons of people at the major orgs who did lots of services. At the time it was relatively cheap -- especially before the late 70s -- and the emphasis in the orgs was on doing training and auditing. Whatever one considers the value of these services to be, mostly a Scio paid for certain services and got what he paid for (by that I mean if he paid for 100 hours of auditing he would receive 100 hours of auditing, not so much the promised results of "ability to spot the source of problems and make them vanish" etc).

    Nowadays the emphasis seems to be on giving the cult money -- to be spent visibly on posh empty (literally no more than one or two non-staff inside receiving services) $10-million buildings and invisibly on unaccountable who-knows-what -- in exchange for nothing personal. So earlier one gave the cult $10,000 and received $10,000-worth of services, and now one gives the cult $10,000 and receives a piece of paper or something equally valueless.

    Paul
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
  4. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Hi Dennis

    Questions:

    1. Do you have services? If so, what do they look like?
    A: There are no 'religious services' in scientology. What they do is promote and do is a huge variety of mental practises without a license and claim them to be therapeudic. They also offer training (which they call services) in how do deliver those mental practises. Beware the mental excercises, these are not professionals, and if anything goes wrong, they will charge you for their attempt to try to fix it with their unprofessional methods. The training is very close minded and one must agree to hubbards theory in order to graduate.
    The other services they offer are training in hubbard's ideas on managment.
    Any other service llke a Sunday service is there only for tax exemption status and deception.
    Just as you were deceived that you would be able go in and just talk about your Faith in Humanity program, they knowingly redirected you to seeing their video and then manipulated you into buying Dianetics which is a tiny bit of truth stuffed with many fraudulent claims.

    You know what. I was going to take the time to help you out but today I am very irascible because I have spent hours upon hours dealing with the tremendous amount of harm this cult has caused over the decades and it is still going on with impunity.
    I don't like to see people commit suicide, go into bankruptcy, have their friend and family relationships shattered and prohibited by this scientology group which calls itself a religion.. It gives a horrible connotation to religion. This is a group which will if you have any strong disagreement with and announce such they will as dictated by their founder, attack you and try to ruin you utterly.
    Please just drop them like you would the Elboa virus...there are enough true believers that do good, why waste your time with a group whose members are extremely deceived and practise deception. Deception mixed with ultruistic memes. Watch out. you have already put yourself and those close to you are tremendous risk....Think I am angry, yes, read a dozen stories here on this blog and you will start, I say start to get a tiny flavour of why I am angry.. not at you, but at the harm scientology does, the deception and fraud it uses and the betrayal of those who have Faith in Humanity and Faith in a higher personhead often called God

    2. Do you have a God?

    3. Is there an afterlife? Is there a heaven or hell? How does one achieve going to “heaven” or even the afterlife?

    4. How did you see charity when you were involved in the church?

    5. How did you view/treat your peers who were not in the church? Your enemies?

    6. Why did you personally decide to join the church? What did your peers/family think? Why did you leave? Was it easy to leave?

    7. Do you still believe in the principles of Dianetics? Because I bought the Dianetics book they said I was entitled to a free therapy session. Do you think that would be a good idea to go to? For research purposes of course. What would I expect when I went? I have seen therapists before but something tells me this will be different.
     
  5. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Goldenrod SP

    You went there to ask them some questions and they got money out of you. That is scientology in a nutshell.

    If you go again for a free therapy session they will get more money out of you. That's what they do.

    By the way, Hubbard lied when he wrote Dianetics. There was no "research" and there is no such thing as Clear, not even today over 60 years later.
     
  6. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    No need to Google anything. If you read enough of the posts here all those questions will be answered and you will likely quit calling it a religion.
     
  7. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    .

    Questions:

    Do you have services? If so, what do they look like?
    There are some "services" like a marriage or funeral that very seldom happen in a Scientology center. They are written by L. Ron Hubbard and must be read verbatim. Other than that anything resembling a "religious service" is only done very rarely and for public relations purposes only. Scientologists in general would think its a joke if you talked about wanting to attend a "Sunday service" because its a "religion" only for financial advantage (no taxes!) and for hiding behind when civil lawsuits or criminal prosecution attempts to secure justice against the cult's infamous human rights abuses, crimes or fraud.


    Do you have a God?
    Again, this not considered a serious subject by high level Scientologists. The concept of God in Scientology is dealt with mostly by:
    * Scientologists believing that THEY are a God who fell from grace trillions of years ago--and who must now pay many hundreds of thousands of dollars to remember and regain their super-powers.
    * Scientologists mock other religion's belief in God and think they have been "implanted" over many trillions of years by evil psychiatrists. For example Hubbard lectures (on audiotape) that "there was no Christ, there was no 'man on the cross'". However, Christians who wander into a Scn center are not told that--they are lied to and told Scn is 100% compatible with Christianity. And Scientologists will grin and lie to your face about that if you walk into any Scn center and ask them. If you literally play the audio lecture to them (via internet) they will cut you off and lie about it--and they will very likely order you to go to the "ethics officer" to get straightened out and punished (if they don't kick you out of the center entirely).
    * The explanation Scientologists are given for the concept of "God" is that "god is infinity" or "represented by the infinity symbol". Nobody in Scientology has any idea what that means, but that's what they are told and they are taught to not ask any more questions about God and to figure it out for themselves by going up the many lavishly expensive levels over decades.

    Is there an afterlife? Is there a heaven or hell? How does one achieve going to “heaven” or even the afterlife?
    In the books (e.g. History of Man) and lectures, Scientologists are taught to fear being "implanted" by evil spirits in outer space after they die and before they (hopefully) find a new body. The cure for that is to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to Scientology--in order to receive large sized "completion certificates" that claim you have achieved supernatural abilities--which will help you avoid those "implants". Ron Hubbard wrote/lectured that he went to Heaven and describes it to Scientologists as a shabby awful place that one must avoid at all costs (implants, again). No Scientologists are allowed to visit heaven or pretend they know about it--only Hubbard is allowed to know about such things. Scientologists believe they must "come back" life after life until they reach the highest levels of supernatural God-like powers. When they have reached that, they must then keep coming back to help Ron Hubbard to spread Scientology to all mankind on Earth and billions of other planets "in this sector" of the universe. Only when all the endless trillions of "thetans" (people) are "cleared" are they allowed to stop donating and dedicating all their money and time to Hubbard and Scientology organizations. That takes at least one billion years, which is why Sea Org members (the most dedicated Scientologists) sign a billion year contract (literally).


    How did you see charity when you were involved in the church?
    Charity is laughable subject in Scientology. One must never give something free to anyone. Hubbard sternly warns that it will cause a normal person to become a "criminal" if they are not forced to "exchange" (pay lots of money).

    How did you view/treat your peers who were not in the church? Your enemies?
    Non scientologists are considered "degraded beings" at best and "suppressive persons" (who must be attacked and destroyed) at worst. To be a Scientologist one must hate and destroy Ron Hubbard's and his church's enemies, which are countless always changing.

    Why did you personally decide to join the church? What did your peers/family think? Why did you leave? Was it easy to leave?
    I tried Scientology and went to the top levels because it appeared to "scientifically" promise everything imaginable you might ever dream of. Think of it like a "magic lamp" where you get all your wishes ("postulates") by simply putting money into it as it it were a MIRACLE VENDING MACHINE. Small problem, no miracles ever come out of the it and Scientologists are forbidden from ever talking about that, with punishment galore if they ever try to mention or even think about that cruel hoax. 99 percent of Scientolgists eventually leave/escape because it does not deliver on ANY of it's miraculous promises. If a non-scientologist refuses to read or believe ex-scientologists scorching "reviews" about the cult (online) their "willful ignorance" or masochism will cost them dearly in the years/decades ahead until Scientology claims them as a victim as well. However (rarely) there are still people who will read about what happens when you try to force a metal object into an electrical outlet and refuse to believe it until they have "tried it for themselves". Such persons are in for a big "shock". lol.


    Do you still believe in the principles of Dianetics?
    None of it works. Hubbard even confesses in a filmed lecture (9 years after he wrote Dianetics) that it "does not produce a Clear". Scientologists don't know about that or refuse to talk about it or believe it. That lecture is even the subject of a discussion thread on this website and you can watch it for free in a few minutes. How stupid are scientologists, you might wonder, if their own guru admits that the seminal book cannot produce a clear? Why do they keep selling the book without telling customers that? Well, did they tell YOU that when you bought Dianetics The Modern Science of Mental Health? Of course they didn't. And yes, Scientologists do lie. All the time. And yes, Scientologists are intentionally kept in the dark about what is going on. The word "cult" is not used without good reason.

    Because I bought the Dianetics book they said I was entitled to a free therapy session.
    That's a joke. The only "therapy" you would be given is the kind that makes you want to give them more money and time. Scientology "therapy" is virtually identical to the "therapy" you would get if you walk into a gypsy "PSYCHIC READER" in your own city. Both end up draining your money in order to relieve you of "evil spirits". Scientology has different pseudo-scientific language they hide behind, but it's the same thing. In fact until you are on level OT 3 (or above) Scientologists don't even know that their "religion" is only about exorcising evil spiritual entities. Look it up using the word "OT III" or "Xenu" or "Wall of Fire". It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars before you are allowed to read that material--but it's free on the internet. Scientologists will LIE about this if you ask them. But you can hear it in Hubbard's own words (audio lectures available online--or by reading it in Hubbard's own handwriting, also online. If you prefer the LIES over Hubbard's own words, Scientologists will be happy to help you with that, lol.

    Do you think that would be a good idea to go to?
    It would save time and gas money if you just push a screwdriver into an electrical socket to get your thrills.

    For research purposes of course. What would I expect when I went?
    Expect to be lied to. Expect to lose common sense and be seduced into a world of fantasy and theory that never works in real life. Expect to lose vast sums of money over time. Expect Scientology to eventually attack you and your family with threats, terrorism, disconnection and worse--when you realize what they are ruining your life and try to discuss it publicly. Think of Scientology like Disneyland with fanatical guards that block the exits and keep forcing you to return to the souvenir store to buy more lavishly overpriced stuff you don't need.


     
  8. WhatWall

    WhatWall Silver Meritorious Patron

    After over 30 years of involvement in Scientology, I do not deem it a religion.

    As others have said, it is a money-hungry cult disguised as a religion.

    Any benefits obtained are used as false proof that ALL of its tenets are true. Anything useful or practical in Scientology will eventually be used to ensnare you.

    It's difficult to wrap your wits around the nefarious nature of Scientology because it can initially appear as very benign and beneficial. This is a deception.

    It's hard for a person of good will to imagine why someone would put so much effort into creating a sham religion. L. Ron Hubbard's motivations were tied to his serious personality disorders -- possibly rooted in some variety of sociopathy. Greed and control & subjugation of others seem to have been his primary motivations. The current leader of Scientology, David Miscavige, exhibits similar motivations and associated behaviors.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
  9. NFIH.

    NFIH. New Member

    Hey everyone! Sorry for such a late response! I thought that I posted this in the general question section of the forum but it was either moved or I mistakenly thought I posted it somewhere that I didn't. And being a new member they had a hold on my profile for a while so I couldn't get in to see my notifications. Anyway, thank you all so much for the responses. They have been incredibly helpful! I haven't yet decided if I am going to go to the free therapy session. The cult/religion really makes me feel uncomfortable, mostly because they have been sending me emails and letters every day now since I went. It is a bit desperate and overwhelming.
     
  10. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    If you're considering going to the free therapy session because you're genuinely wishing to address some issue you have there are many other options which don't involve receiving therapy designed by a man who couldn't even resolve his OWN issues.

    Hubbard had serious mental issues and they only got worse over the decades during which he created Scientology.

    As someone who worked for several of their organizations over a ten year period, I highly recommend that you skip the "free therapy session", even for research purposes. It truly IS a dangerous organization, but difficult for someone new to the organization to perceive the danger.

    Their desire to give you a "free therapy session" is similar to someone putting out a mousetrap with some cheese to attract the mouse.

    The mouse may be led to believe the trapper loves him because that cheese is exactly what he was searching for.

    But things won't end well for that mouse.

    And things have ended just as badly for thousands who have received the "free therapy session" or taken the "free personality test" from the CoS.

    Our stories are all over the archives of ESMB and in many other places online.

    And it's much better to learn from the mistakes and bad life choices others make rather than having to personally suffer the consequences oneself. Especially when dealing with an organization that has caused the financial and spiritual bankruptcies of so many and destroyed families of its most loyal members.
     
  11. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    When I first read the OP, I thought to myself, Oh No! He gave them his contact info.

    Yes, desperate and overwhelming - that's the Scientology I remember.

    I suggest that you speak with Jeffrey Augustine regarding the podcast.

    https://scientologymoneyproject.com/about/

    There are a lot of exes who can provide excellent insight into the theology angle and LRH's state of mind but Jeffrey focuses on the organizational, legal, financial angle. If you wanted to understand an organized crime syndicate that ran a waste management company, it isn't enough to understand waste management and their most excellent recycling program, you need to understand the mob's operations.

    LRH repeatedly told us that the most valuable people in the world were auditors but that just isn't true. By their own actions it is clear that they consider the most valuable people in the world to be lawyers.

    I don't think there is anything that I would disagree with in the prior responses to your questions but I'd just add that Scientologists don't just believe in a natural cycle of birth, death and being born again. Eastern religions tend to believe that the spiritual being is making progress towards perfection or enlightenment with the gained experience of reincarnation but Scientologists believe that without Scientology it is all a hopeless progression of degradation to the point where the spirit is an unconscious ineffectual thing stuck in the physical universe. In other words, Scientology isn't just a path to spiritual enlightenment and being able to regain past life recall, it is the only hope for saving your spiritual salvation in the entire universe and anything that doesn't help Scientology is useless and anything that opposes Scientology is evil.

    I do think that you should continue to pursue your quest to have the Church participate in a podcast just to see how it plays out. I don't think they will cooperate since they don't have anyone who they trust enough to competently represent the Church in an uncontrolled venue. You will eventually be directed to OSA (Office of Special Affairs) PR Bureau where they are diligently drilled on how to deflect, lie and parse replies. OSA also handles their dirty tricks ops which the forerunner organization, The Guardians Office, made famous in the Snow White and Operation Freak Out ops.

    But this is a serious undertaking and I'd suggest doing some core reading first. A Piece of Blue Sky will give you an excellent overview:

    http://www.instinct.org/texts/bluesky/contents.htm
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  12. NFIH.

    NFIH. New Member

    Thanks for the advice. I don't think I am going to do the free therapy session after all. Everyone has been telling me that it would not be a wise decision. I felt very uneasy, even the one time I went there. I couldn't tell if that was because of all the things I have heard and read influencing me or because it was the atmosphere in the building. It was a lovely building to be sure, but the fact that everyone was wearing all black and watching me as I walked around looking at all the books and DVDs on display was a bit unsettling. Plus the pictures of L. Ron all over the place silently watching me didn't help make me feel any more comfortable. Looking back now, it felt more like a store than a place of worship.
     
  13. NFIH.

    NFIH. New Member

    Thanks for the suggestions! Everyone on here has been so friendly and helpful. I truly appreciate it.
    I haven't decided yet if I am going to keep contacting the people from Scientology, part of me thinks it is a good idea and will result in something interesting to report on, but part of me is genuinely terrified.
     
  14. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Yes. It's a commercial enterprise masquerading as a religion, although many staff/public genuinely believe it is a religion. The staff (almost all) genuinely believe they are helping you (and mankind) by hooking you on Scientology, and most work long hours for peanuts because they are devoted to it. (Lots of exes here on this board who did it too).

    Paul
     
  15. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    You are right to be concerned. Check out Ross and Carrie's project. Few people go this deep out of investigatory curiosity. It is a very paranoid culture and they are diligent about conducting background checks and Googling newbies.

    http://ohnopodcast.com/

    http://tonyortega.org/2016/06/03/ro...alling-it-ridiculously-creepy/comment-page-1/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgaCZBIYZjU
     
  16. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Hi again Dennis

    I see you posted again just today on introduction. I am again curious..about everyone watching you..As I envision that, I wonder how long you were inside there and if you happened to see any others visiting a a guest like you were. I mean did you see anyone that was not dressed all in black?
    Maybe you were the only 'raw meat' of the day and they are hungry hungry for that sort of thing.
    What time of day were you there?
    One of the things I am trying to get at is a true snap shot of evidence as to how IDLE their 'Ideal Orgs' are.
    Also, you mentioned " mostly because they have been sending me emails and letters every day now since I went. It is a bit desperate and overwhelming."
    Do you know or can you keep record of the time and number of phone calls and emails and letters you have received and will continue to receive for the next 40 years? ha ha I know...well don't have to keep the statistics board up that long but still it would give many of us a another peek into the 'current activities' of scientology.


    How many different people are reaching out to you or is it just the same person over and over again.
    Whatever you do, do not give them your credit card number to purchase anything as they do and will track people by their credit report etc. They will also track you travel flights...and meet you at the airport for free....Yep there are videos of that showing them doing exactly that...I kid you not.
    Yes they are desperate.. Cue Hotel California..


    "This could be Heaven or this could be Hell"
    Then she lit up a candle and she showed me the way
    There were voices down the corridor,
    I thought I heard them say...

    And still those voices are calling from far away,
    Wake you up in the middle of the night
    Just to hear them say...

    And she said "We are all just prisoners here, of our own device"
    And in the master's chambers,
    They gathered for the feast
    They stab it with their steely knives,
    But they just can't kill the beast

    Last thing I remember, I was
    Running for the door
    I had to find the passage back
    To the place I was before
    "Relax, " said the night man,
    "We are programmed to receive.
    You can check-out any time you like,
    But you can never leave! "

    Welcome again to ESMB where all are welcomed and anyone at anytime can leave. :yes: :biggrin:
     
  17. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    Questions:
    Do you have services? If so, what do they look like?


    There are no services as one would consider it. Nothing for a group or anything like that. All services are individual where one pays for and attends a course or pays for and gets counseling which is called "going into session".

    Do you have a God?

    Scientology is based on a concept called the "Theta/MEST theory". Consciousness or individual "viewpoints" are "thetans" being comprised of theta for "thought". MEST is Matter, Energy, Space and Time, or the physical universe comprised of physical properties. Theta is supposed to organize and control MEST. It does this by the pure Hubbardian concept of "smashing" into it. By doing so a portion of theta gets "enturbulated" and a portion of MEST gets "enturbulated". This is en-theta and en-MEST. The whole idea is that theta degrades over time by a dwindling spiral of more and more enturbulation or en-theta. This is your "case" in Scientology. This is what Scientology is all about. It supposedly reverses this enturbulation and un-enturbulates theta; thereby "freeing" the theta to its natural state - called Native State.

    In Scientology you as theta are supposed to expand out across your dynamics by becoming, as opposed to having, each dynamic. The final dynamic is eight - the god dynamic. By doing Scientology you regain Native State where you ARE the eighth dynamic. You become god.

    There is no worship of Native State because that's you...just like you wouldn't worship your childhood or adulthood or anything else. It is you.

    Is there an afterlife? Is there a heaven or hell? How does one achieve going to “heaven” or even the afterlife?

    In Native State you have total Cause over all eight dynamics and have complete recall of your individual time track on the whole track. Not being in Native State you have degraded to being a body, as opposed to having a body. In this state you suffer amnesia of who you are. You are now almost complete total Effect and being an object...which is a body. Going OT means going "Operating Thetan" where you "operate" as a thetan - a viewpoint of pure consciousness - no longer needing a body so you no longer operate as a body or a physical object. You now "operate" as a thetan. That's what the "Bridge to Total Freedom" is all about...transcending this physical incarnation. This is "handling" your "case".

    Further more, people and almost ALL Scientologists have no idea how degraded "we" have become. Earth is a prison/insane asylum where beings are dumped to decay and die...which is to say they become MEST...which is total Effect. Earth and this current existence IS, literally, Hell. You die over and over in amnesia and pain and a state of unknowingness. Further more you are a conglomerate being where "you" has become confused as a mass of semi-conscious and unconscious beings sharing the same physical beingness. Even the body is comprised of dead thetans all jammed together as facsimiles. You are a mass of dead and dying and rotting beings suffering from amnesia and thinking you're a body. When you have a muscle spasm that is another being or group of beings so far dead and gone that's the only Causation they can muster. They cannot even control a body. You think that this muscle spasm is "you" or "yours"...it's not. It's a group of or one other theta entitiy injected into the conglomerate called "you". The same goes for individual thoughts that enter "your" mind...thoughts...desires...goals...intentions. Anything you can think of is coming from a mass grave of dead and dying amnesiac beings imprisoned in a physical existence which is hell. This is why people off the street are called "fresh meat". It's a slam because their viewpoint is so degraded that they identify as that body. The whole psych ward imprisoned in that physical tomb, "their" body, thinks and believes that it is that "person" as an "individual".

    That is Earth. That is the physical universe. It is Hell.

    Heaven is the top of the Bridge where your have won Freedom from this decaying dwindling spiral of MEST death.

    Only Scientology, perfectly and exactly followed, can reverse this.

    How did you see charity when you were involved in the church?

    Charity is a waste of time unless it's for something Causative - which is Scientology. Only Scientology can do anything about it. This is why Tom Cruise says in his infamous video that at an accident only a Scientologist can do something effective about it or whatever the hell he states.

    Everything else is a psycho, criminal spin-bin reaction from conglomerates that are imprisoned in masses of dead and dying beings. Everything is psycho. Get it?

    Furthermore, by giving to it you can actually create an out-exchange situation which will create criminality - even in "good" people.

    It's about like giving taxes to the government.

    How did you view/treat your peers who were not in the church? Your enemies?

    Scientology is vicious to its own faithful. How do think its "enemies" fare? My personal viewpoint was that they were so psycho and full of criminal stimulus response that they were ineffective and couldn't be reasoned with. Just quietly go about de-stimulating the prison planet and try to bring the theta to MEST ratio higher until reason could grow. We only applied "ethics" to remove them as a barrier when in the way.

    That's the "enemies" the "counter-intention"... the "CI".

    Peers not in Scientology were psycho psych wards imprisoned in a graveyard. These people, once friends, are now stimulus response "cases" that need to be "handled" so as to become Scientologists to win or die in the attempt of reversing the dwindling theta/MEST death spiral. These are the "other-intentioned" or "OI".

    They are now a problem and a waste of time - they are "dev-T"...which is "developed-Traffic"...which is handling particles that don't lead to production. If they don't buy into and cognite on and with Scientology they become the color of a barrier. Not specifically "enemies" but objects in the way to be set aside or moved out of the way.

    They are a Liability.

    Anything that is not flowing "Power" to Scientology...which is money, resources, fame, power...if it's not doing this then it's a Liability. If it's stopping this or reversing this trend then it's an Enemy or Treason, etc.

    Anything that stops Scientology is killing all theta...everything that is good and pure and life.

    Why did you personally decide to join the church? What did your peers/family think? Why did you leave? Was it easy to leave?

    I read Dianetics and Science of Survival and decided to cautiously check it out. I found things that worked and that's the trap.

    My peers and family were upset and didn't understand. I became a freak. This further alienation probably drove me deeper into the cult.

    I left when I couldn't shit myself any longer. It, "Scientology", was the very thing it claimed it was correcting...just about in virtually everything it did. It is a psychotic criminal reactive mess all full of stimulus response insanity and crime and war.

    It was very easy once I made the decision in my "space" (mind). Once I was no longer a Scientologist the place had zero hold/control on me. I was no longer a Scientologist when I no longer considered the "tech" of Scientology as the only means of salvation or, more specifically, AS a means of salvation - when I no longer saw its efficacy...or it as effective. When I actually concluded that it was the opposite to and detrimental to spiritual salvation it no longer had any hold and I was gone...oddly enough this "gone" had nothing to do with my physical presence or absence and actually verified the original Scientology premise of theta over MEST. Once the decision is made the person is no longer shackled.

    Do you still believe in the principles of Dianetics?

    There's a tremendous amount of material that is correct, right and works in Scientology. Others will argue this point. I no longer use or practice Scientology. The workable stuff was assembled and discovered by others and twisted and maligned by Hubbard - that's my guess. I don't factually know because I wasn't there to experience what actually occurred.

    Because I bought the Dianetics book they said I was entitled to a free therapy session. Do you think that would be a good idea to go to? For research purposes of course. What would I expect when I went? I have seen therapists before but something tells me this will be different.

    I would stay away from Scientology. It is anathema to "freedom", "sanity", "ethics", "production", "theta" or anything else it promotes.

    It is so anathema that I just now am coining a new ESMB word to describe it:

    Anatheta
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
  18. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    This is a wonderfully and excellent summary of scientology. I am very sure you must be a natural Clear.:biggrin:

     
  19. NFIH.

    NFIH. New Member

    I was probably there for maybe an hour and a half. I am not entirely sure though. I got there around four on a weekday after work. When I got there there was a man and a child dressed in "street" clothes leaving, so I am assuming that they were not part of the church. Right before I left, word must have gotten out that there was this guy there wanting to record because this new woman was there and she had on a white dress shirt with a black vest on. I am not sure if she was the "boss" or what. It just seemed odd that she was dressed differently but still clearly was part of the church because she was behind the counter while I was being written up for my Dianetics. Also, there was a small child with her which made me concerned because if this organization is as dangerous as everyone is asserting on here, I fear for the kids who do not know any better.

    But have gotten a bunch of pamphlets about L. Ron and how Scientology will save my life. I can attach some of the emails to a post in this thread if you are interested. It has been essentially an email a day since I visited the church and on the 11th I got three emails. They are really pushing the 67th Annual Dianetics Anniversary celebration because most of the emails are about that. I think I have only been contacted by three people so far. The emails are all signed "sent by atlanta@scientology.net in collaboration with Constant Contact". I am sure many companies or organizations use Constant Contact but coming from Scientology it seems very apropos.

    Oh. No. I paid for the book of Dianetics with my credit card! Do you think they are tracking me now? I probably shouldn't have gone, but instead have gotten on this forum. The thing is is that when I interview people I try to go in with a completely open mind and not let anything I might have heard about the religion to influence me in any way. That is how I went into the church, thinking that there was a possibility of everything I heard just being hyperbole. I guess I was wrong.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
  20. NFIH.

    NFIH. New Member

    First of all, thank you all so much for being so helpful and friendly! It has been overwhelming in a good way! I am trying to keep up with reading all the responses. Thank you all!
    I have a few more questions:
    There were probably five people that I saw in their all black but I am sure there are a lot more. Do they live in the church building? It was strange because the parking lot was full and there were a lot of texas license plates, bizarre for being in Georgia. Also, when I was at the reception desk the receptionist was telling me that she watches this person on YouTube who has a podcast. I was under the impression that people in Scientology wouldn't have access to the internet because then they could be exposed to the church's BS. Or maybe they have limited access...?

    This next question may be a bit inappropriate, if it is I apologize in advance and of course do not feel at all obligated to answer any of my questions. But have any of you ever been threatened? Did you ever feel unsafe physically? Or even physically harmed?
     

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