Snooping esmb

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Whattodo, Apr 12, 2017.

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  1. Whattodo

    Whattodo Patron

    Might be an daft question but if there are scientlogists snooping on here how do they not get their heads turned reading alot on the information and content in some of the threads on here!

    Surely they must think there is a whole lot more of ex/independant scientlogists than they thought.
  2. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Exiting Scientology tends to be a process (pun intended). It can take time. Seems to me though that the bulk of the exiting has already occurred. Anyone who has remained a devotee this long will be a resistant case (another pun intended).
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  3. strativarius

    strativarius Comfortably Numb

    It wasn't any disaffection with scientology itself that caused me to leave (I mean I didn't open up the OT III pack and think "you've got to be kiddin' me, this is BS"), rather it was the abuse I suffered at the hands of my superiors. If I had been treated in a half decent manner I might well be there still.

    Even after I left (blew) the SO I still believed in the tech and I 'knew' why two people were in dispute (third party) or why one person nattered about another (overts) etc. etc.

    It took many years before I was detoxified enough to be able to see clearly that I had been hoodwinked.
  4. Hypatia

    Hypatia Pagan

    A cult member's gonna come here for either of two reasons. One would be sent here as an operative. In that case, I can't work up much sympathy for 'em.

    The other possible reason is that they're seeing red flags, they're noticing hinky shit, and they want to know what's going on and what they're not being told. In that case, they've got a foot out the door anyway.
  5. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    This must be emphasized. If a Scientologist stumbles onto ESMB and quickly gets out as soon as they realize it is entheta then they might be spared the consequences but the very moment they linger beyond that point they risk thousands of dollars in sec-checks, repairs, lower conditions assignments, loss of good status, etc. There is essentially no grey area.

    The Church may think this is PR Area Control or putting in ethics but Scientologists are quite able to do the math and just contemplating the hassle resulting from a little lurking on ESMB can be enough to start them quietly pulling away.
  6. Whattodo

    Whattodo Patron

    I can see why they stay away from anything Anti scientology when you look at it from that angle. They have everything covered don't they!

    I am just cautious what I post on here
  7. arcxcauseblows

    arcxcauseblows Patron Meritorious

    I used to Snoop

    Problem is the indoctrination can get heavy and they're scared they'll catch pneumonia or get restimulated pts

    Scientology uses the sales/hypnotism trick of getting a bunch of yes answers till it's automatic

    "Read this until you find something you agree with... Then read it again and find something else you agree with... You're getting sleepy.... You have all the answers here... Don't think look... The tech always works... Thought stoppers... Thought stoppers..."

    Also soon as any content starts matching the 12 characteristics of an sp they would start dismissing everything

    Paraphrase anything and they think you alter everything or have misunderstood words

    Same with anything "nattery" or "low toned"

    Oh they used the word they it must be an SP!

    Oh they said something bad about lrh must have overts

    They get used to the bubble and getting high off constantly patting each other on the back at events, bragging and collecting certificates and the grand announcements at events and the illusion that they're actually doing something good and changing the world so anything real or critical analysis or realistic expectations become suppressive and they don't have time for it

    If what you say doesn't raise their tone they don't want it they want to be irresponsible and they want the fantasy they want to think they're God and your a mortal animal

    Blah blah blah

    But yes they Snoop i bet more than we know and it's probably getting really really hard not to when things are in HBO and ABC and fox and best seller lists etc
  8. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Some excellent points.

    There are very real consequences to actively seeking out entheta and there are the ideological restraints.

    But the big difference now is that the general public are becoming so well informed about the true nature of Scientology that they can know more about what's really going on than Scientologists themselves so to come out as a Scientologist must be having some very awkward backlashes and stink eye. This must be causing Scientologists to get curious about what other people are seeing.
  9. survivalist

    survivalist Patron

    Chris Shelton mentioned that he was initially outed as a defector by OSA after posting on ESMB. He was anonymous but included just enough personal info for them to identify him.

    Which made me wonder...does OSA have people who read ESMB, or is the "outsourced" to private investigators? I'm assuming OSA people are pretty hardcore, but nonetheless, there's a daily stream here of things that could eat away at someone's faith.
  10. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    Good post!

    In the grand tradition of Hubbard monetizing EVERYTHING POSSIBLE for personal gain, Scientology found that it was quite helpless--pathetic actually--when it came to the internet.

    How sad it must have been for OTs and elite SO Execs to stand off on the sidelines, watching startup companies reap HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in wealth by leveraging the power of the internet. But, Scientology, if nothing else, is diabolically clever and figured out an "angle" of how to make BIG PROFITS from an internet which was overflowing with SPs who helped make Scientology into the most reviled & ridiculed religion in the world! That brings us to the book's next chapter. . .


    Conceding that they were simply clueless and "total effect" about how to "make the internet make money", Scientologists did a clay demo and cognited that they CAN'T make money from a venue which exposes their cruel hoax. Therefore, Scientology resolved a new scam--one that PENALIZED & TAXED anyone that looked at the internet.

    Parishioners living under the COS's Orwellian slave-control system quickly learn that it costs TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS of case handling (e.g. Sec Checks, Repairs, Re-Trains, Re-Treads, Grade Chart Level Repeats, et al) to simply look at the internet. That's a new and wonderful CASH FLOW ENGINE for the disappearing cult.

    If I hadn't destroyed all my e-meters a long time ago, I would pick up the cans and see a "floating needle" that accompanied my major "cognition" that when Scientology tech utterly fails to work, Scientology's solution is to PUNITIVELY & SAVAGELY TAX THEIR LOYAL CUSTOMERS. But, I wouldn't "indicate" the F/N to myself, because my cognition is entheta, right? LOL. Ergo, it must be an "arc break F/N", right? Except that I am laughing, which is kind of like "VGI's", right?

    But those "VGI's" must not really be real "VGI's" because it's an arc break. Right?

    So it must be 1.1 laughter instead of real laughter. My God, that Hubbard is so OT he thinks of EVERYTHING! LOL
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
  11. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

  12. Lord Xenu

    Lord Xenu Patron Meritorious

    Here is where I disagree with many on ESMB. I believe that many execs and scifags that are running businesses are aware of exactly what is going on in terms of covert hypnosis and other techniques stolen and or developed by Hubbard. They use their mastery as part of a sales/management philosophy.

    Isn't Hubbard's sprawling business management series a large part of cult teachings?

    I remember the books being prominently displayed in many of the homes and offices that I visited at the time.

    The spies that are on here could be cynical devious people who are aware of the destructive nature of the cult for the devotees but know how to beat sec checks and use the tech for their own gain whether it is for power or financial reasons.

    I have mentioned before that when I worked for a scientologist owned company one of the execs was clearly stoned a lot of the time.I never physically caught him indulging but I'd stake my reputation on the fact that he was a regular pot user. He looked and behaved stoned a lot of the time. He was also a nasty piece of work; lying,cynical and devious. I think part of his job description was to terrorise the staff and keep everyone on their toes. But this guy would have been subject to all the checks and was well in with the other execs.

    I think that he would be the kind of person who would be looking at this board on behalf of the cult.

    I do not subscribe to the philosophy that all cult members are brainwashed.

    Some of them are the most cynical and devious people you are ever likely to meet who are using LRH techniques for their own ends.
  13. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron

    As a scammer said to Jimmy McGill in a Better Call Saul episode - There are 2 kinds of people in this world - Wolves and Sheep - Which are you gonna to be?


    Edit add: I guess I better finish that - Jimmy thinks about it, for a few seconds, and then takes money out of his dad's cash register and pockets it . . .

    Not far removed from lrh and dm - and the other sociopaths who SEE what it - scno- is, and decide to use it to their own advantage - to hell with the sheep, they deserve what they get . . . . There are lots of evil bastards in the world. Scno has a few of them, and is making more all the time. But those kinds would probably have become sociopaths anyway, inside or out of scno/co$/so/osa. That is the human condition. :sadsigh:
  14. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    The Church walks a fine line on this kind of thing - at least they used to. From my personal experience they worked very hard to weed out people who we might characterize as sociopaths or amoral. They wanted people who were predictable, controllable, didn't cause flaps, and who had a relatively safe moral foundation that could be reoriented toward the dedicated service of Scientology.

    I do think there is a lot about Scientology that controlling jerks would find attractive, so after so many decades, it should be expected that there will be quite a few of them hanging around the periphery after having been involved in varying degrees and they will naturally continue to integrate it into their day-to-day behavior.

    But LRH himself was about as amoral as anyone could be so from his perspective it was probably more a matter of controlling the competition. In the end, look at who he elevated to the top position and the highest level of trust.

    Scientology is full of these kinds of contradictions. It is like so many other isms where good people buy into a promise of hope and prosperity and justice only to have millions die and enslaved by the few who take control of the levers of power. There will always be the opportunists in these systems who use the same doctrine to prey on the other purists.

    Los Angeles probably has the largest Scientology population and it is already very much a dog-eat-dog kind of place. Just 4 hours on that freeway and you're ready to assign everyone a condition of treason. Between the stress of just living in LA and the demands of the Church I'd expect a higher instance of Scientology based thinking predation there.
  15. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    I have to say that I never found this to be true of the scilons I associated with.

    Charmaine, Teddy Braggin, Michael Roberts and Jeff Pomeranz definitely seem to be of this ilk, but I still think they are believing Kool-Aid drinkers despite their sliminess.
  16. Enthetan

    Enthetan Mutant

    That was the case in the 1980's, after books like "Messiah or Madman" started coming out. I learned early on that talking about Scientology at work was not a good idea. This got me some stuff from a PAC MAA during my OT eligibility, who accused me of being a "closet Scientologist".

    Telling non-Scientologists at work that you had been in the Sea Org was even worse.
  17. Enthetan

    Enthetan Mutant

    I've said before, Scientology attracts two main types of people:

    1) People who genuinely want to improve the world and help people, but who are a bit naive, and
    2) Psychopathic predators who want to take advantage of the people in category (1).

    Many of the people in category (2) make it into executive positions, where they use Scientology techniques to manipulate and control people.
  18. Enthetan

    Enthetan Mutant

    They didn't want sociopaths who might use Scientologists too much for their own benefit. Sociopaths who got stats for Scientology were fine.

    People who were good at convincing people that they should spend their retirement funds and their kids college funds on Scientology were treated as valuable. People who were good at intimidating staff into working 100 hour weeks were also valued.

    It was just a question of the sociopath knowing the acceptable limits, and knowing that he had to maintain a net usefulness to senior management.
  19. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Goldenrod SP

    I think you've missed out a third category - people who want to improve themselves.

    I didn't get into scientology to improve the world or to help people. I just wanted to improve myself. Nothing more. Nothing less. I refused to join staff or the SO because that wouldn't have helped me.
  20. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster Patron

    The only Co$ member Scientologists whom are allowed to "snoop" here are Sea Ogre OSA staff and their few public scientologist minions. Those persons are heavily mentally immunized against actually accepting any communications from the Super Evil Devil Suppressive Persons who post here. Any other Co$ member reading here will eventually be discovered through sec checks and face truly awful punishment. Some few of the [strike]latter[/strike] former have ended up out of Co$ that way, of course (e.g. Tory "Magoo" Christman).

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist
    Last edited: May 4, 2017

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