Spirituality, Consciousne & the 8th Dynamic

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by lexmark, Apr 18, 2010.

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  1. lexmark

    lexmark Patron with Honors

    I am quite interested in the consensus of this website. I have posted a few posts concerning the topics mentioned in the heading and have received quite a few replies refuting such things as God, Spirituality etc.

    As mentioned in earlier posts of mine Scientology started off with the concept of spirituality and reincarnation and the possibility of a higher power (8th dynamic). It is this concept that brought so many people into Scientology in the formative years. Later it was the harsh ethics, over boards and disconnection policy that started putting Scientology in a bad light.

    In today’s world the higher human values such as love, compassion, understanding and the like are defined as spiritual values. In the article I posted that was published in the Russian newspaper Pravda, they mention this in part, where the people maintained their higher values such as the classics and ballet as opposed to the pop culture of the West which eventually defeated communism in Russia. From my perspective it appears that with the likes of Obama, Gordon Brown and Tony Blair they have this neo communistic design for the West. It appears when a nation adopts a materialist paradigm of existence, they forsake their higher values in pursuit of material things which could bring about such philosophies as communism. Western politicians practice materialism in their daily running of their countries despite many of them being religious and this is due to the onslaught of the scientific materialism in the West.

    If the purpose of this website is to bring about a reform of Scientology such as bringing about an end to the policy of disconnection, RPF and harsh ethics and bring about the end to families being split apart then maybe we need to present something which is better or whatever. You cannot really free people from something, you need to free them INTO something.

    Your thoughts.

    Travers Harris
  2. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Aren't you Amdi? I'm confused over your identity. You say you're not he, then sign off with yet another nick (Travers), that was used by a different username here on ESMB who admitted he was Amdi. It is difficult to have a serious discussion with someone who seems to be lying about his identity.


    EDIT: I meant Amit, not Amdi. Ignore this post. I need some coffee. :)
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2010
  3. lexmark

    lexmark Patron with Honors

    To dulofart

    Don't hide behind my identity, I am who I say.

    Can you answer the post or would you rather hide behind your assumed name.

  4. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Whoops. My apologies, Travers. My mistake.

    To comment on the subject matter of your post, I don't see there being a whole lot of agreement here about much more than that the abuses of the CofS have to end. Individuals on ESMB have their own ideas about God, the 8th dynamic, Allah, whatever. It's freedom of choice. As soon as someone presents "the thing" people should believe in that freedom of choice has gone — it's as bad as Hubbard's my way or the highway in KSW.

    Last edited: Apr 18, 2010
  5. lexmark

    lexmark Patron with Honors

    Scientology Abuses

    The abuses in Scientology cannot be blamed on Miscavige, he is simply carrying out the teachings which LRH created. Although I was on the ship while LRH created these conditions I never agreed with them. I feel that I could think for myself and not be a party to something that I did not agree with. Norman Starkey, a raving lunatic and a very weak minded individual was very fond of these conditions and the RPF. He was placed in charge of Author Services by LRH, one of the top posts in the outfit.

    Miscavige is probably of similar mental capacity to Starkey and will continue with LRH's teachings as it is implanted in his mind. A paradigm shift is needed.

    It appears that nothing the law says or what humanitarian organizations say or what anyone says,they will carry on with their abuses because in their mind it is not wrong.
  6. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    The first part about the 8th dynamic etc bringing so many people in, in the early years...
    I think you're wrong there. It was dynametics that brought the suckers in. Get rid of your reactive mind. Find out how to deal with your ruin.
    The rest of your post is an overt product. You get stats for that?
    No wonder the COS is going down the gurgler so fast.
  7. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

  8. JBTrendy

    JBTrendy Patron with Honors

    God & Scientology

    Hi Travers,

    On this beautifull sunday from Paris

    God bless you my friend

    As a science Scientology doesn't interfere with the 8th dynamic but ethics does and that's one of the main puzzle Scientologists have been facing with the application of this tech.

    Ron says also that infinite is a concept that speaks to all of us as we all are coming from there.

    It's all up to you as usual.

    Now the seperation of the fields of religions and politics is a must. In France we call it "laïcité" meaning the state respect individual beliefs and practices but don't make any difference in treatment and recognition of them. That's in our republic ideals and it works well when truly applied.

    All2U :whistling::whistling::whistling:
  9. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    Interesting point Trendy, how can you be ethical if can't do the greatest good for the greatest number if you haven't a clue what the eighth actually is.

    On that basis alone, on their own terms I could say that the majority of Scientologists are unable to be ethical in their judgements.
  10. Blue Spirit

    Blue Spirit Silver Meritorious Patron

    More Please

    Your two posts above show some real wisdom and are appreciated.

    I agree.

    Norman Starkey is one whose insanity I saw a long time ago, and with DM
    stole the copyrights starting with the forged will signature of LRH who was
    comatose on drugs.

    I look forward to more of your posts.

    I've noticed that we have had a number of new quality posters come here recently. :thumbsup::clap:
  11. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    Nobody is refuting the existence of a God (or at least, I'm not). I just say it's unnecessary to contemplate God to understand consciousness, or any other problem regarding the world we live in, or ourselves in it. Thus, it's more that God is s moot point, and this applies to spirituality as well. Perhaps such things exist, they just are irrelevant.
  12. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    What's irrelevant is talking to other people about your conversations/relationship with God, unless of course, He told you to. In which case it's a tough row to hoe :)

    I'm lucky; He just offered me a job and I turned it down.

  13. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Hi Travers, I hear what you are saying but ^^^^ this is not what this forum is about!

    "Meet other ex's. Share your experiences. Reunite with old friends.

    This message board is for ex Scientologists to freely discuss mutual experiences in Scientology. It covers such topics as L. Ron Hubbard, David Miscavige and current management, auditing and training, Ethics tech and its application, OSA, fair game, Clear & OT levels, Freewinds, and recovering from a cult experience."
  14. yon8008

    yon8008 Patron with Honors

    I love this Uniquemand!

    I always thought of the 8th dynamic, not as a big thetan who created it all, but just as a recognition "AND THERE IS EVEN MORE". You can look out at the sky and just feel that sense of WONDER. You can explore the heights and depths of Consciousness - and there is ALWAYS MORE!

    Reaching out into the unknown, working to create our realities in our own ideals, we are reaching out into the 8th dynamic. But as soon as we reach something, as soon as we are able to experience it, there it is among the first 7 dynamics.

    (The really exciting thing is to take these experiences and help others have them too. Like a field-guide leading others to the top of the mountain to see what they will see. In this way we are introducing someone to the unknown which was previously their 8th dynamic.)

    If there really is some big thetan, get into real comm with it - do TRs with it - have ARC with it - find its goals and purposes - find its ruin if it has one - find out how you can contribute to it - learn its rules and join its game.

    But all of this is still 7th dynamic, and the 8th will still remain out of view - clouded by overwhelm of some huge 7th dynamic. The 8th dynamic always recedes, just past the edges of what we can experience and know at the moment of our reaching. And if we discover that we truly know all - then the 8th dynamic becomes the question, "What shall I create now?"
  15. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith Flunked Scientology

    I always seem to be getting myself into trouble on ESMB, either by my own doing or my reaction to others' posts. That old saying about walking a mile in my shoes...or whomever else's shoes...

    My view about God has come about from a multitude of unexplainable events in my life. It is all well and good to be agnostic, or flat out atheist, and I gather most Scns are, but I think none here know the extensive history I have endured. I am not going to recount anything here, but I do want all to know that no one needs to convince me about God. This "big thetan" stuff is hubbardian mindfuck...I will not let such ideas rent space in my head.

    I am sure Winston Smith is an enigma to some here, because he sometimes seems a good guy and other times a raving lunatic with uncontrollable emotions. That be as it is, I am at peace with myself due in no small part to my relationship to God.
  16. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    Don't worry about it Winnie. Never assume that because someone doesn't talk to you about God that he hasn't met Him :)

  17. JBTrendy

    JBTrendy Patron with Honors

    8D more about

    Salut La La Lou Lou,

    Thanks for answering my post. To my view point scientology helps a lot to get up to the 8th Dynamic with a sense of free personal create. As you said, many missed this point but that's theyr reality. LRH says as Buddha and Jesus before him that you get to god by getting to yourself first.

    The trick is to let people find about it and respect this as a personal path and that's the way to avoid the crimes and war in the name of any Lords. I had the good fortune to be revealed and in full comm with the 8D before I found out about Scientology but I know I'm not the only one. I did the Minister course and it helped me greatly to progress on this field and I very much thanks Ron for that and Hymn of Asia.

    All2U :yes::yes::yes:
  18. JBTrendy

    JBTrendy Patron with Honors

    About God by Zinj

    Wonderfully stated my friend

    Thanks :clap::clap::clap:
  19. TalleyWhacker

    TalleyWhacker Patron with Honors

    Wow---that's a very cool viewpoint and written so well!
    (I know it can be hard to express that sort of thing--at least for me most of the time.)
  20. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith Flunked Scientology

    Thanks! I don't much talk about it either, because it is a private matter. Nothing more disgusting than all those peeps who make mucho dinero pubically spouting. Point well taken...and I did not post about it to convince anyone. :)

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