Ten years after…

Discussion in 'Life After Scientology' started by Glenda, May 6, 2017.

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  1. Glenda

    Glenda Gold Meritorious Patron

    Short informal introduction: I used to post on ESMB as SallyDannce. I lost that internet identity as I healed from the trauma of leaving scientology and the events that unfolded during that time in my life. My real is Glenda. I am not in hiding from anyone. I do not live in fear of the cult. I try to live my life aware, not in fear. :)

    I came back to ESMB a few weeks ago after a non-authorised sabbatical. For the uninitiated that's me trying to be a bit funny. When you're in scientology you have to write a thing called a Completed Staff Work (CSW) if you ever want time away from your training, staff position, etc. Usually the CSW gets declined. Yay for living life without CSWs. Freedom!

    I came back for a couple of reasons. I had been mulling over sharing what life is like ten years after leaving. I also came back because recently I have been feeling a bit broken inside. The cult stuff has been a bit triggered again. I have been feeling low. I have also been feeling angry and trying not to be angry which I recognise is not a healthy way to deal with the anger. Talking about it, expressing it, is probably a healthier way than bottling it up. I needed to be “close” to those that get it. Those that actually give a shit and understand mind-control. I get that not all ESMBers believe that scientology is dangerous mind-control and I try to respect that view. However for me it will always be a dangerous cruel trauma-inducing mind-bending cult. The further away I get from the impact of the scientology programming snapping inside my head, and the more I learn, the more I contend scientology is nothing but mind-control, glossed up with some very pretty lures.

    The “good lower level” stuff is simply the juicy lure into the darkness. You've got to start somewhere when you want to control others minds and hearts. You do it with pretty, nice, useful bait (seduction). I tend to get an internal reaction when people say there is some good non-harmful stuff in scientology. Sure there is. Ask yourself why. It helps to understand how abusive relationships work. There is always some good stuff on offer which is used to seduce and to build/hold the power and control over the target.

    I want to write about how life is for me after ten years of recovery. The good stuff and the stuff that is still tricky. I can’t think of anywhere else to share this stuff so here I am on ESMB blabbing on about the long road to recovering from scientology. I am disappointed in myself, after nearly ten years, to find I can still get this triggered and tripped up by what seems to be such deep shit. I knew it was deep, I really knew this but somehow it doesn’t make it any easier when it hits. I know the world is a mess and realise that my little recovery story is way down the list of relevant issues when people are banging their chests about who has got the biggest missiles and positioning frigates in a showy stance. I am still going to proceed and hope that maybe, just maybe, what I share may have some tiny value in a world that is full of so much meaningless crap, and potential horror.

    I’ve worked really hard. Those that know me well can testify to that. I think sometimes I’ve pushed myself too hard. I can be very tough on myself. I just didn’t want to wake up one day, years down the track, still thinking with scientology concepts and behaving like a scientologist. There are those that would hiss at me that I do act like a scientologist sometimes and that really hurts because I have tried so very hard to break all the patterns of the scientology conditioning. If you ever want to really hurt me just fire at me “You are no better than a scientologist with your (and quote some imperfect behaviour you may have noticed).” I will fall apart and go hide quietly to try to regain my centre. Another good way to hurt me to the core is to tell me I am an inauthentic person, a fake. That will trigger something very deep in me and again I will go quiet and go hide. I have worked so damn hard to regain a sense of who I am and why I am here in this world without all the scientology clap-trap rattling in my head. Building a fresh identity sans mind-control conditioning (scientology) is not easy. Those that say it is are full of shit. People have used the above mentioned types of comments on me. It felt like they had found my most vulnerable soft spot and kicked it.

    I can’t seem to harden the fuck up to not let that stuff hurt my heart. I am who I am, warts and all. I try to carry my shame best I can. I screwed up giving 20 years to the cult of scientology. So if you ever want to really hurt me, I just gave you the keys to the door. Why? Because I am not going to pretend that I am all tough and perfect and got my shit together. I am not all tough and perfect. Nor do I have my shit together on all aspects of cult recovery. I can be very vulnerable. God forbid. I am human. That was the aim when I left scientology. To humanise myself. To feel shit again, not be some numb fake “tone scaled” shadow of a human being who robotically thought in scientology concepts/filters and contained her behaviour within the limited parameters of scientology programming. To hell with that! Really to hell with that!

    I’ll write more. It seems I have a lot I want to say.
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  2. Glenda

    Glenda Gold Meritorious Patron

    The value of getting up close and personal with language

    I somehow worked out that the way to break free of the scientology conditioning was to deliberately, intentionally, locate the scientology concepts/language that were bashing around in my head on automatic and consciously develop fresh ways of thinking and internal language. This was hard work. Going up close and personal with every thought and the language it is constructed with is like running a damn marathon every day when the system you are trying to de-pattern is scientology. Scientology is installed with intense use of language. It is another language.

    I had become aware of the power of language because of living in China. I was living in China when the scientology program snapped on me. I was living life without language a lot of the time as I did not speak/understand Chinese. I lived in a wordless world about 80% of the time. It turns out that is a very powerful “place” to live. I simply did not have a clue what was being said around me so I went into this place of being a silent observer. That made me very aware of things I had previously not been aware of. Things like how unnecessary words can actually be and how much influence words have on people’s behaviour and emotional responses. Somehow I worked out that scientology held a lot of power over people because of how loaded the language is. It is heavily pounded into individuals with things like intense training, drilling and group reinforcement.

    I started to experiment with myself with the scientology language in my own thoughts. I would isolate a scientology thought process and then deliberately spend days going hard up against it to alter it. Pattern breaking. I got good at spotting scientology related patterns and then hammering them with deliberate thoughts and/or behaviour. Initially this was excruciating work – and exhausting. Example? For 20 years every time I saw someone with a (common) cold I would automatically think “they are (scientology word deleted) and must have a suppressive person in their vicinity”. During the early stages of my recovery I would stop, and internally chant “this person has a cold. Colds are caused by a virus.”

    There were hundreds of things I did this with, possibly thousands of words I consciously made myself stop and reconsider. The automaticity of the scientology conditioning became more and more apparent the more I did this. I isolated the language in my thoughts and every time I spotted anything related to scientology I would chant “stop! Reframe this in real world terms.” I became very conscious of my thoughts. When I was tired, stressed or under pressure I would revert and the scientology language and thoughts would take over again. During that stage I felt like I had been invaded by a foreign invader. My mind was not totally under my volition and that induced high-end frustration and misery. When I say I felt spiritually raped, I really did. Mentally and spiritually over-taken by something I had not consented to in a transparent way. I was determined to regain control over all of my thoughts without any foreign invaders on automatic. It took conscious work.

    Ten years after:

    Like any language that is not regularly used – you lose it. It’s gone. I worked long and hard to lose scientology language. Having said that I remain aware that like any language, all you have to do is immerse yourself again and it can come back. I don’t remember much of the Chinese I learned but I know with a bit of effort and immersion, it is probably still there. Same goes for scientology. However the difference with the scientology lingo is how loaded it is towards behaviour and emotional responses. Mind control language is different to other foreign languages. It impacts on an individuals world view, emotions, and behaviour in ways that a normal second (or third, etc) language does not.
  3. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Glenda wrote:
    And good say it is above! Say some more:yes:

  4. Glenda

    Glenda Gold Meritorious Patron

    Armfuls of books

    When I first left scientology I read that it took years to recover. I resented that idea so I dug in and got busy. What does that mean in practical terms? For me it meant coming home from the library with large armfuls of books on a wide range of subjects. I researched a wide range of subjects. I wanted to learn about the world without the scientology filters in place. I indulged in reading books about anything and everything. I’d just walk down the aisles of books and grab anything, sort of like a rebellious teenager. Or maybe a kid in a candy store would describe my behaviour better. I’ll take that, that, and that! Because I can!

    Many times I ended up struggling back to my car with books that were a [STRIKE]tiny bit[/STRIKE] almost too heavy to carry. I’d get home with the strangest selection of books. I’d pour through them like I was starving for fresh air. I’d sit on the floor surrounded by books. It was all about indulging in freedom of information after being in an information controlling destructive cult for 20 years. I’d always loved books but during those early stages of recovery I fell even more deeply in love in ways I had never dreamed possible. The world was opening up as my oyster. I could “waste” time reading about anything I wanted to. I was off the clock for “planetary clearing” and “getting up the Bridge”. The joyous freedom of that was powerful.

    Ten years after:
    Just the other day I struggled out of the library with far too many books. I sat in my car laughing. They were books on craft, and code-breaking from WWII. I am still fascinated with a wide range of subjects and love that I can spend my evenings reading any damn thing I like. :)
  5. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Re: The value of getting up close and personal with language

    YES! . . . That part I coloured red, Glenda . . . you are absolutely correct.

    And the way I had to handle "the Scientology program" was to address each concept I'd bought and to then simply spot/recognize the falsehoods attached and laid in with each of its (Hubbard's) propositions, meaning, definitions.

    What I found Hubbard did was to alter the meanings of actualities . . . and that, to me was the entrapping part.

    As a simple example (so as not to stir anyone up) take his stupid, evil and entrapping AXIOM ONE: "Life is basically a static" . . . .

    In actuality, life is anything but a "static" . . . any good civilized dictionary with kill that idea. And as a result of this idiocy, I recall folks actually coming to believe they were some sort of a "living nothingness"!!!:duh:

    Alan got it right when he addressed this shit. He rewrote the Axiom to say: "The source of life is a static . . . "

    I have posted elsewhere on ESMB his "New Axiom One" (to which I also contributed the notion that the "static" has infinite potential to add to his other listed characteristics).

    Thus, for me, I was able to undo the Scientology mind bend by spotting each of the falsities, each of the altered and incorrect notions Hubbard proposed as the truth we had to adhere to in the place of the actualities of real life.

  6. WildKat

    WildKat Gold Meritorious Patron

    Sounds like we had a similar track. I got in in 1978, did a short stint in the SO in early 80's, then ten years of hard-core striving to go OT. After OTIII I said "this is nuts" and slowly but surely fell away completely. Years and years of being UTR to keep family connections, then finally walked away utterly and completely in 2007. Ripped my life apart by the roots.

    I am still trying to sort out what are my "real issues" (the ones I came into Scn with that never got addressed) and what are the issues that were caused by being in a cult.

    Thanks for the clarification about Sallydance. I thought you seemed familiar!

    Please continue.
  7. Glenda

    Glenda Gold Meritorious Patron

    The power of new experiences

    Breaking any bad habit probably involves changing behaviour and how the brain responds. I am no expert in this stuff. I just know about my own brain.

    My first challenge was actually accepting that brain counts because in scientology Hubbard sneers at the brain. Useless and unnecessary thing according to him. The first therapist I worked with proved to me that brain does matter. She showed me a very simple but highly effective way of calming the over-loaded mess inside my brain. I also read some stuff on recent studies on the brain. Hubbard’s views and ramblings are utterly outdated.

    I went through intense stuff in the early stages of recovery. I was traumatised. That’s a long story but basically I was having serious panic attacks, every normal pattern like sleeping, eating, etc, was totally out of whack and the depression was so severe I was beginning to contemplate ways to take my own life. I was utterly lost without my scientology programming to rely upon. I didn’t have a clue what I thought about anything. I had lost my sense of self. It is a seriously messed up place to arrive at.

    I’d have these heavy dissociated brain sizzles. I could no longer focus on anything in my immediate environment nor understand what anyone was saying, etc. I’d hear this strange sizzling sound inside my head. I was gone. During the early stages of working with my first therapist this would happen in her office. She showed me a very powerful way to quieten the noise in my head, to reboot my brain and to gently come back from the heavy dissociation. She showed me how to breathe through the dissociation. At first this was like mowing several acres of lawn on a hot summer’s day. It utterly exhausted me. I could feel the shifts going on in my brain. I wouldn’t have believed this if it hadn’t happened to me. I could feel what was going on in my brain as I addressed the rewiring process. Who knew that was possible.

    After working with my therapist, I’d slowly, carefully, drive home and fall into bed into a deep sleep for a couple of hours. OMG it was just a big mess. Inch by inch the mess in my head began to lessen. It took time.

    Between the panic attacks, the sizzling brain and the big rewiring work I also started a healthy new habit which supported all the work I was doing. I began “the daily new experience”. I’d read somewhere that a daily new experience was helpful when recovering from a cult. I took that seriously. It made real sense to help break up the automatic patterns.

    Every day I consciously had a new experience. It may have been as simple as eating my lunch sitting in a new place or as bold as going into a social setting which as a scientologist I would never ever have done (i.e. around people smoking pot or wildly drunk). I began to let myself see and experience the world through new eyes. It was terribly difficult in the beginning. I felt like I had just arrived in the world. My first party was so weird. I’ll never forget it as long as I live. People in the real world act way different to scientologists.

    Ten years after:
    Not only does a daily new experience bring a little joy to each day but it genuinely helps keep a fresh perspective on life. New experiences, for me, help keep complacency from setting in. Complacency has little to no place in a consciously lived life. Lately I have become a little complacent. Aha! Needs work. :)
  8. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron

    :hug: :bighug::thumbsup::clap::goodposting::thewave::thankyou:
  9. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  10. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    Re: The value of getting up close and personal with language

    How often did hubbard correct the incorrect with his own incorrectness?
  11. EZ Linus

    EZ Linus Cleared Tomato

    Glenda, Your opening post had me crying, as I related to it very much. I could have written it myself, but alas I am still hiding too. I have a plan to come "out" once my memoir gets published, which is kind of a stupid plan. Who knows when that will be? But that is how I want to do this. I am not famous or anything. I'm a nobody in the eyes of the cult.

    But anyway, you have really inspired me. I want to speak the truth too. I have struggled, both here, and within the last bit of writing I have put down in my book. To allow people to know that after 17 years of being out, I am still messed up does not give very much hope to anyone. I think people here might be able to understand why I might be reluctant to announce that. I want to be of some kind of inspiration, not the bearer of bad news. Seventeen years is a long time! Shouldn't I be "cured" by now? However, I've had many many successes and have found REAL relationships, emotions, experiences, life and joy that I absolutely never could find in the cult. It's actually REAL freedom. I don't live my life in a trap anymore.

    That doesn't mean I don't get triggered or have horrible moments, problems, or deep dark sadness. I think there will always be residual cult shit within me. I know all about these triggers you have regarding authenticity or being/acting like a Scientologist. Sometimes that might be you just dissociating - a classic PTSD symptom of the kind of trauma we specifically have experienced. And the thing about being a genuine person -- you already ARE a genuine person. You're just one that worries about not being one. You're finding more and more layers about yourself, you are still getting to know more about who you are, reconnecting to who you were before you went in. That takes a lifetime. Even for people never in.

    I agree with everything you said about the cult. All of it. A lot of people here do to. I also find it a tad hard to believe that some people still practice the tech, but I also find it hard to believe the whole Christianity thing too. It's just the same. People can have their beliefs. But they are beliefs. They are not what is real and you know that. You are real. You are genuine. You are your authentic self, even when you were in because you got yourself out with your authentic self. It was always there.

    If someone has said something to you, accusing you of not being genuine (sounds like an asshole to me), they are obviously incorrect. The fact that it does not sit right with you is your proof they are wrong. It's upsetting because it's not true. See?

    You sound like you have done a lot of homework to bring yourself to where you are now. That's GREAT! I have too. I feel like I understand where you are. Just because I sometimes struggle seven more years out than you means nothing. I've had other shit to deal with beside Scientology. I'd still never want to go back there. And I think that always learning -- about life, yourself, about people, the socialistic aspects of people, all of that stuff -- is a great way to grow and make changes to improve yourself and your relationships. I suck at relationships! But I have a couple extremely strong ones that I know I can always count on. Honestly, you don't need much more than that. Support is important though and this forum can be good for that. Forums are weird things though. They can be wonderful one minute and put you in tears the next, so keep yourself safe.

    Big hugs, and THANK YOU for your posts.

  12. Glenda

    Glenda Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thank you! :)

    There is a big list of cult recovery songs that I have played along the way. This is one of them.

    "You need life so you can live it. You need love..."


    Oh, I should write about love. Not the romantic pretty-soundtrack type but the sort that keeps ya alive when your faith in humanity has completely gone and you're not sure if tomorrow is a viable option. Love and kindness are two of the most powerful reasons I am still here. There are moments that are etched into my brain where people were kind and loving. They are moments I'm going to still be talking about as an old lady. :)
  13. Glenda

    Glenda Gold Meritorious Patron

    Shuddering and needing to sleep

    Last night I wanted to write all night. I could have. I have disciplined myself to not do that. So grown up of me. This stuff is just pouring out of me. I think I need to write this stuff. Okay, I admit I do. I keep wanting to cry out something I can’t quite define. There you have it, I am utterly human. The sadness of all that happened sometimes comes visiting. Healing from the intensity of scientology and the grizzly aftermath is not some tidy linear arrangement. A to B to C and yay, all fixed. That’s not how this stuff works. Well not for me at least.

    I spoke to a psychiatrist the other day. That’s quite something for the girl who was so heavily indoctrinated in all things anti-psych. The former CCHR (citizens commission on human rights, pffffff) girl has gone.

    Prior to going into the psychiatrist’s office I felt the old shit of “the psychs are evil” kick in. My stomach churned and my head reeled a little as the old feelings surged through me.

    I sat at his desk, talking. I didn’t look at the door once as a potential escape route. I wanted to but forced myself not to. I was very proud of myself. As I was about to leave, we went to shake hands. I looked into his eyes and something deep inside me roared. He took my hand, gently, in his hands. Sort of like a hand-shake but with less formality. He said “You have been through a lot. You have come a long way to get this far.” I sat there, with not an ounce of dignity remaining. He was right. I had snot and tears plastered all over my cheeks and chin. I’d just told him the short-version of what happened when I left the cult of scientology. I had missed out so much detail, the bits about what it is like to become “the enemy” and steel-capped boots and violence. I still can’t describe what that feels like. I’ve tried to write about it many times but I always end up shutting it down again.

    There’s this moment in Shanghai where I was lying on a cold tiled floor. All I can see are steel-capped shoes and trouser legs. I call the piece “I can see trousers”. I’ve never finished it. I simply have not found the strength to fully explore it and write about all that happened that day. I do not want to gloss over those moments with a light flick, a few shallow words that go nowhere near the intensity of a life and death moment. No one knows how bad fanatics can get until you face them head on. I did. It isn’t enough to say “oh but you are alive, you made it out alive…” Yeah I did but there is a price for seeing the truth of what a true fanatic is capable of.

    Ten years after the real world is still sometimes a strange place for me. I still shudder, a little, when standing in a hallway outside a psychiatrist’s office door. I’m still learning to live with the legacy of all that happened. I still can’t bear seeing steel-capped footwear.
  14. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Glenda, I'm so glad you started this thread and you're writing like the wind again and enjoying yourself.

    Of course, I have my selfish reasons for being happy you started this... you write SO WELL and I love curling up to read your latest work!

  15. Glenda

    Glenda Gold Meritorious Patron

    My pleasure. Famous is an interesting thing. We live in such an ego-based culture. I can't stand all the attention-seeking stuff I witness going on in this world. The older I get the more private I tend to get.

    There is no shame in carrying trauma though it seems that abuse and trauma are subjects that many would prefer to be kept silently hidden in the shadows. I think we live in a shame-inducing culture. Some of the comments that have been made to me...pffff. Hurt people hurt people. Often they smile a sickly smile as they do their hurting.

    I think there are some experiences in life that do not ever fully heal. As much as I am loathe to say that, my experiences tend to lean that way. I don't think this is "bad news". Perhaps that is a too black and white way to view things. I heard a wise man say something on his death bed. He had lost (to death) 3x of his children during his life time. Hard to comprehend that sort of thing. When asked how he had coped, how he had found a way forward from all that, he went quiet. And then he said "I do not know. You just do." Right there, in that non-black and white gut-wrenching grey mess, is wisdom. Did he heal from the deaths of his 3x children? No. But he found enough peace to live his life. He found enough love in each day to somehow smile again.

    I can go months and months without thinking about all that happened and without being triggered. Mostly I can gently/easily work through the times I get triggered but I'm not so full of myself to expect that I won't ever get triggered. Recently my own complacency has lead to getting "hit" with a series of events which have knocked me back. I wasn't staying alert and naively wanted to be "all healed". Why? Because there is this unwritten unsaid expectation in society that you should just shut the hell up about any weaknesses such as having been abused and carrying trauma as a consequence. Vulnerability is seen as bad, as weakness. I don't know about anyone else (though research supports what I am about to say) but my vulnerability has been the birth place of some very damn amazing insights and creativity. I am at my most vulnerable when I am in my creative bubble. Paradoxically I am also at my strongest. Can fragile vulnerability also be a powerful strength? For me, I think it can.

    I am glad I have inspired you. Please keep writing. :)
  16. Glenda

    Glenda Gold Meritorious Patron

    Justice and accountability issues

    A week or so ago I went out for a long lunch with some creative friends of mine. I love these people. We amble through these long lunches, bouncing off each other in delicious connection. I’m not going to brag about their talents but will just say these people are worldly, kind and super talented. Why they let me sit at their table still amazes me. Perhaps it is because I always have a notebook in my bag – and a pen – so we can write down the really handy creative ideas in a take-home note. For whatever reason I get to spend some high-quality time with a bunch of creative-crazies and come home feeling completely inspired.

    The other week I was sitting around a table with these cool people and I felt this isolation I had not previously felt. Later that evening I reflected on what that was about. The cult trained me to see things in a very different way. As a person who was in CCHR and did projects for OSA I existed in a very compartmentalised world. Hard to explain. It permeates your thinking. You tend to always be honing in on specific things. You lose sight of the real world big picture and you are never fully relaxed. You are always on the look-out for enemy lines or data on something you are working on. That’s how I felt at the lunch table with my creative friends. Isolated in a way that is so hard to describe. Another layer of cult conditioning had revealed itself. Realising that made me miserable. I just want it all to go away. I can avoid this, leave it well alone – that is an option. It’s just not a viable option or the path forward to reconciliation or inner peace.

    The sadness and isolation hit me. I can still feel isolated from the mainstream world. I do not want to feel that way. I am part of this world. I have worked hard to get here. I resented sitting at the table with my friends feeling different because of my experiences in the cult of scientology. I want full integration into the real world. So time to dig in.

    So there I was digging into these thoughts when an overpowering anger entered the scene. Hello anger! Who knew you still were resting within me. I got out my really sharp spade and got into some even deeper digging. WTF is going on?!?!

    And then it hit me. There is no fucking justice in all this. The cult trained me to see things in a really weird way. It trained me to be isolated from mainstream society, to think I was special because I had “the tech”, the whole damn system to save the entire planet. It mentally twisted things so deeply that it is taking years and years for it to all peel back, to reveal itself. Grrrr! It is mind-control! I am still a bit bogged up with cult-conditioning. Grrrrrr!

    Then I got angry about officialdom. It is illegal to thrash a child. It is illegal to be cruel to animals. It is illegal to sexually rape someone’s body and so forth. Crimes against the person are neatly listed out in legislation and due process exists for these. But it is legally sanctioned (and ignored) to systematically destroy an individual’s inner identity in a devious way. So much of what scientology does is being legally sanctioned with pure ignorance. Wow. That’s how I see this now.

    An individual can be mentally invaded and exploited at many levels without any protection from the law. God people get more protection for less every day. People have access to seek compensation and justice. We, those that have been the victims of a devious mind-control system, tread through life carrying powerful injustices and invisible scars with little to no voice (other than using media outlets and the internet) and no place to honestly seek compensation and justice.

    Ten years after leaving the cult of scientology I find myself angry about the lack of legal protection (and avenues for redress) from the devious damaging undue influence inflicted by the cult of scientology.

    And what is worse is that I really get that most people (in both high and low places) do not give a damn.
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  17. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    The thing that I think is the worst about scientology is that the cruelty is so well cloaked. The lies are so brazen that they are rarely questioned by those with the authority to do something about them. More and more voices are needed so the whisper becomes a roar that can't be ignored.

    I know, and know of so many people damaged by scientology in ways they struggle to survive with. It's an individual journey for each and we can't judge one person's progress against our own. Like you I have things I can never heal, just learn to live with. "The best way to keep going is to keep going", yep. And more and more layers get revealed.

    I wish I could say "I left * years ago" but it was such a gradual process over many years. Maybe it was the time in the late 90's where I said to myself "Never going back" after a reg call? Or was it when I first posted online in 2006? Or was it in 1989 when I realised I stood alone outside the bubble of family and friends and started the journey out? It doesn't matter, what matters is we are out and free to expose those lies and abuse and look after ourselves.

    I think it's so valuable to hear individual stories because there is no blanket fix. That is the legacy of scientology, the deep and individual invisible harm. Thanks Glenda!
  18. Glenda

    Glenda Gold Meritorious Patron

    It really is a very grey thing.

    There is great value in sharing stories. Kind of reminds me of the course I did with Women's Refuge. As the weeks went by, with strict protocols in place (privacy/respect issues) we all shared our stories. I can't begin to tell how deep and life-changing that was. For all of us.

    To the day I die I will feel connected to each and every women that was in that room. Women who found their voices. Women that shed their tears without fear. Women that hugged and were hugged. Healing stuff.

    If I can give nothing else to this world, I hope that by telling my story it will inspire and help give some courage to others to tell their stories. Stories are far more powerful than people initially realise.

    With love and respect for the women I did the Women's Refuge course with. May they all be living in peace. xxx
  19. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    Spoke to someone last night who's been "out" for a few brief years (if that) and who still believes in The Tehc as something that has value.

    Even so, this person has come a l-o-n-g way in that time toward establishing a REAL life in the REAL world and they are doing very well comparatively.

    But the scars are still there to hear and they can't begin to address the mindf*#k yet because it's all too much - just trying to create some sort of a future after decades in the toxic cult is an all-consuming thing.

    And, if I'm honest with myself, I still carry the baggage of my decades "in" in how I live my life - even when I try to revert consciously to what I was before the cult (how many peeps do you know who take a real garden salad out of their garden every day to work and who blow a mouth organ while walking around the workplace?:biggrin:)

    But even to walk away from a workperson who's being verbally abusive is hard - I'm a "trained auditor" and should "grant them beingness" and "handle their upset and help them overcome their Reactive Mind" and all the rest of the Hubbardian crap that "we" have been marinated in for so long and so thoroughly that it's hard to spot, even when we look for it.

    And Glenda you are right when you say that the rest of the world don't give a damn - they can't because they just can't get what it's like to have submerged oneself into the fake identity of a sociopathic malignant narcissist like Hubbard in the belief that that is the only identity that will enable one to "flourish and prosper" in this "tough universe" where "only the tigers survive."

    Thank you for your brave and insightful words, my friend. That we can see a world that few others can't (because they take it for granted) is to me the pay-off for those wasted years inside our own prisons of belief (as Larry Wright so wonderfully put it.)

    The sun shines and people laugh and cry and live and we can be a part of it at least and know what it was we had missed out on. For me, I have to keep reminding myself that I have a great life now and that there are a lot of peeps in this world who are in a lot worse shape in every way.

    The depression, the suicidal thoughts and all the rest of the crap that comes from really exiting a cult are hard to struggle with - I know this from deep personal experience.

    But the pure emotional response I feel listening to a bird sing or some good music is worth the price I've paid. To choke up over my son's soccer game or a well-written story is the result of a lot of hard work.

    Thanks again for putting it into perspective for me.:yes:
  20. Glenda

    Glenda Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thank you old friend. For everything over the years. For carrying what you carry with such dignity and grace.

    To stand on a beach and watch the sunrise with tears of joy because of the hard work done. To stand in gentle awareness of things that cannot be explained. Freedom to enjoy the simple things in life. Freedom to experience it all, on our own terms.

    Sometimes I feel like standing on a high mountain and yelling out with joy "Do you know what I did! Do you really know what it took to get here?!?! I got out of the darkest place and stepped back into the real world!"

    Warm love to you and the family Scooter.