The Church of Scientology says it "has no position on sexual orientation." We have questions.

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by CommunicatorIC, Oct 11, 2018.

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  1. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

    The Church of Scientology says it "has no position on sexual orientation." We have questions.

    Recently and repeatedly, the Church of Scientology has said "the Church has no position on sexual orientation," and "[t]he Church is on record as being opposed to discrimination of any sort, including on the basis of sexuality." See also here, here, and here.

    Journalists may want to ask the Church of Scientology the following specific questions, among others:

    1) Does the Church of Scientology perform gay weddings? Is the Church of Scientology willing to perform gay weddings?

    2) Does the Church of Scientology support adoption by gay couples?

    3) If the Church of Scientology supports adoption by heterosexual individuals, does the Church of Scientology also support adoption by gay individuals?

    4) Can a gay person become and remain a member of the Church of Scientology in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

    5) Can a gay person become and remain Clear in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

    6) Can a gay person become and remain OT 8 in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

    7) Can a gay person become and remain a non-Sea Org staff member in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

    8) Can a gay person become and remain a Sea Org member in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

    9) Can a gay person become and remain a member of the clergy of the Church of Scientology in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

    10) Does the Church of Scientology perform, endorse, advocate or accept the validity of any form of gay conversion therapy, or any form of therapy or spiritual practice or technology intended, designed or that has the purpose of changing a gay person's sexual orientation from gay to heterosexual?

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  2. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    Naturally, if forced to answer those questions, the COS (Crimewave of Scientology) will simply lie.

    Why not cut to the chase and just ask them the "KEY QUESTION".

    DOES THE CHURCH PROMOTE AND ADVOCATE L. RON HUBBARD'S POSITION ON THE
    MENTAL ILLNESS, EVIL & DANGER TO SOCIETY POSED BY GAY 1.1 PEOPLE
    AS DESCRIBED IN THE BOOK "SCIENCE OF SURIVIVAL"
    1 THAT
    IS ON SALE IN EVERY SCIENTOLOGY BOOKSTORE
    ACROSS THE WORLD?




    1 And more specifically "DMSMH". Both books defame & degrade gay people in hate-mongering and even genocidal respects.
     
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  3. CommunicatorIC

    CommunicatorIC @IndieScieNews on Twitter

    It is slightly more complicated than that. And I do mean slightly; I'm not being sarcastic.

    As Mike Rinder notes, the book Handbook for Preclears is perhaps the only place where Hubbard specifically states homosexuality is about 1.1 on the Tone Scale. The book Science of Survival does not specifically state that homosexuals are 1.1 on the Tone Scale. SOS instead states "perverts" are 1.1 on the Tone Scale.

    Don't get me wrong, it is clear that Hubbard considered homosexuals to be "perverts" and thus at 1.1 on the Tone Scale. As Mike Rinder also notes, in Dianetics, Book 1 in Scientology, Hubbard states:

    The sexual pervert (and by this term dianetics, to be brief, includes any and all forms of deviation in Dynamic II such as homosexuality, lesbianism, sexual sadism, etc. and all down the catalogue of Ellis and Krafft-Ebing) is actually quite ill physically. Perversion as an illness has so many manifestations that it must be spread through the entire gamut of classes from (1) to (5) above.​

    I always recommend Mike Rinder's essay, Scientology Homophobia.

    I also always recommend Nora Crest's YouTube video, Why You Can't Be Gay In Scientology:



    Having said all of that, my purpose in creating this thread was not to argue the point, but instead to provide journalists with specific questions to start with.

    As noted in the OP, the Church of Scientology now says it "has no position on sexual orientation" and "is on record as being opposed to discrimination of any sort, including on the basis of sexuality." Those statements raise many questions, including those set forth above.

    The Church of Scientology's repeated statements that it "has no position on sexual orientation" also presents a more general but perhaps more fundamental question -- i.e., how is that even conceivably possible for a church or a religion? A church or religion either has gay members (who can have gay sex subject only to the same ethical requirements as straight persons), or it doesn't. A church or religion either performs gay marriages, or it doesn't. A church or religion either supports gay adoption, or it doesn't. A church or religion either has gay clergy, or it doesn't. A church or religion simply can't have "no position" on such issues. For a church of religion to state it "has no position on sexual orientation" appears to be ludicrous, evasive and, to be brutally honest, cowardly.
     
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  4. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    Right you are! DMSMH was the right reference, not SOS.

    SOS was much kinder to gays and other 1.1s. In a courageous humanitarian way, it did not allow them to suffer in isolation amongst high toned people and mandated herding them up and shipping them to remote areas where their evil perversions could not bring down the society. But, it not torture them, it simply "disposed of them without sorry".

    Murdering SPs like gays, Paulette Cooper and people who squirrel scientology---it's the right thing to do. Ron did it for mankind------and the children. Have a heart, think of the kids---send in your donations!
     
  5. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    . . .
    Rex Fowler . . . case in point, lest they have forgotten.

    Failed "gay handling" over time that ended in a terrible tragedy for two families.

    From what I've read and heard, Rex Fowler got pulled off of solo OT7 and subjected
    to 22 to 27 intensives (unclear) of sec checking because he wanted to build and develop
    a blog, a website where gay OTs could meet and socialize. I think OSA nipped that one
    in the bud.

    The money he stole from his company was for an IAS donation to make up the damage
    done by his misstep. Many more details about the story on other dedicated threads. Goes
    way back to the 70's, when he first got into Scientology and joined staff in Denver.

    That's the long story short.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  6. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor


    The COS is not entirely without spiritual values. They sent a SCIENTOLOGY MINISTER into the prison to worship with Rex. They mostly prayed that Rex would rapidly cover a recent $50,000 NSF check he wrote to the IAS (the day before he murdered someone)---so that he Rex would not be declared for "Financial Irreularities", be Declared and lost his eternity.

    The minister, speaking on behalf of the church, benevolently "turned the other cheek" and gave forgivingness to Rex for his sin, even beneficently waiving the customary $39.00 fee that they normally charge parishioners for overdrafts.
     
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