The Conditions

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Alien3, Nov 4, 2018.

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  1. Alien3

    Alien3 Patron


    What sort of a mind fuck are the conditions? I dont know how many times I did the doubt formula and above, and then I would convince myself that even though there were obvious deficits within the Org ... it was all about 'the greatest good for the greatest number'.

    After doing Conditions I would then be reinspired to be a gung ho staff member. Then shortly after go back to being in doubt again.

    The whole structure of this nutcase organisation is highly manipulative. You could never voice an independent opinion without being deemed as having missed witholds, and fill you with guilt.

    They prey upon the young and gullible with no intellectual maturity.

    I would like to thank the Administers of this site who are dedicated in exposing this lunatic Organisation.
    ***** I would also be interested to hear about how the Advanced Org is shaping up in Sydney. As in they bought some land around Ryde or Lane Cove a couple of years ago. I was wondering if they had built it yet, or whether it will take the usual 20 years or so, for them to procure enough money from recent space cadets.
  2. As a never-in, I would like to ask the following question:

    Who assigns these conditions? Why do people allow themselves to be considered treasonous, or a liability to the organization, etc.?

    Years ago, we saw a movie in my church about Jan Hus (I didn't know you can fit an ENTIRE HOUR of 16 mm film on only one reel, but you can). As he was being tied up to be burned at the stake for heresy, the Catholic officials said "We condemn your soul to the Devil" and put a special hat on his head. And Jan Hus replied "And I commit it unto God". This was more dramatic than the dialog Wikipedia quotes for this execution, but hey, this was a movie.

    Are Scientologists (staff and Sea Org) so beaten down they cannot think for themselves, and evaluate the big picture? Working hundred hour weeks for years at a time, don't they see that they are doing everything this crazy cult asks of them, TO THE LETTER, and the org should appreciate their parishioners?

    (Of course, getting repeat telephone confirms to attend a fundraiser or sending letters to people who have been out for decades is not very productive, but that's the fault of the organization, not the individual.)

    So who assigns these conditions, and why do people go along with them?
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
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  3. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Officially, an ethics officer is supposed to assign a lower condition to a person.

    People (staff or public) go along with them because they are caught up in a cult mindset.

    (BTW, Church of Scientology is not the only cult on Earth.)
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  4. Irayam

    Irayam Patron with Honors

    And public scientologists can also be proactive :) and assign themselves the conditions...
    I was working for scientologists at a time and when I had not so good results with my sales, I had to use this « tech »...:pullhair:
  5. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    To answer the question "Why do people go along with them?" you have to understand what it's like to be in a cult. If you refuse to go along with something then you get something worse. If you keep refusing then you'll get kicked out eventually. That would mean losing contact with everyone you know in the cult, including family, and also losing any hope you had of achieving any kind of spiritual salvation (if that is what the cult is promising).

    It is very easy to read all about scientology and sit on the outside thinking that people in it must be crazy but you'll never be able to understand them until you can put yourself into the cult mindset.

    ETA: A scientologist believes they have been on this planet for millions of years searching for a way out and finally, this lifetime, a door has opened and they've found it! This is incredible news and makes them feel very special. So when they consider being kicked out of scientology it means going back into the trap with no hope of ever getting out because the scientology Bridge is the only road out. That is one of the reasons why they will do whatever it takes to stay in good standing with the cult.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
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  6. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    People do sometimes refuse to accept conditions. I did it at least once. On the most memorable occasion, I was already in a lower condition (Liability?) and someone tried to assign me an even lower condition because I briefly replied to a public person who asked me a question. (You're not supposed to speak to anyone in a lower condition.) After some argument the matter was dropped.

    Note that I was on staff at a mission and could easily have walked away at any time (and did, on several occasions before I finally left). You probably can't do that if you're in the sea org, though.
  7. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    What? When/where was that put in? This is the first I heard of it. I can imagine it being part of the Lower Conditions when they were first introduced, along with draconian penalties, but it wasn't part of lowers when I was in the SO from 1972-1996. On the RPF you weren't supposed to originate to non-RPFers, and on the RPF's RPF you were only supposed to originate to fellow RPF's RPFers. But generally in lowers?

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  8. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Actually, having lived through the actual original introduction of the "ethics" conditions (as they are often incorrectly referred to) while on staff in London, I can attest to the incorrect stupidity with which they can and have been applied!!!!

    Example: April 1968, being assigned in a Condition of Enemy, a person was routed off staff and treated as an SP . . . and it got stupider . . .

    In the later part (about Sept-Oct, from memory, the first of the lower conditions were introduced: namely the Condition of Liability . . . and the lower than that conditions came later, and were revised and relocated, etc.

    However, to be noted is that the release of the Condition of Liability coincided with the very 1st SO mission that came to the UK (WW and London) to terrorize the troops. That was Joe and Jill Van Staden . . . we have a thread or two about that seismic event . . . I'll never forget Herbie Parkhouse arriving in London to "strike a blow at the enemy" (an attack upon a Harley Street psychiatrist) while in the then lowest condition available at the time.

    In actuality, Conditions are assigned by one's senior in the Org structure. However, the lower conditions would tend to follow some form of investigation involving "ethics action" . . . a BofI or Comm Ev . . . Though I once assigned one of my juniors in the Pub Divs Liability . . . to get him to figure out what his back off on handling public was. It was light, not punitive.
  9. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    In the original Dianetics book, chapter on "The Four Dynamics", Hubbard talked about the optimum solution being something which would benefit the First and Second (self and family) as well as the Third and Fourth (group and mankind). So a course of action which benefited the Group, but left the individual in bad shape, was a non-optimal solution.

    Of course, this was before organized Scientology.

    Once there were Orgs and SO, then it all got mutated into "the greatest good for Scientology"
  10. Dotey OT

    Dotey OT Patron with Honors

    There was sooooo much interpretation to the ethics conditions, that it was different almost anytime you had to deal with it, and different to anyone you dealt with in regards to it.

    I think that some of the greatest untruths that I'm still shaking off came from that bullshit he wrote in regards to this subject.

    This is also a very interesting area in the cult. There is a lot of attention on this area, but in fact most involved are completely ignorant of what is written on this subject, and there is am awful lot of writings on this subject.
  11. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    The Conditions Formulas are an integral part of Scientology doctrine. For example, there is a process called "Conditions and Exchange by Dynamics" where the PC reviews the conditions and exchanges between all the 8 dynamics on the meter. In other words your 3rd dynamic or urge to survive as a member of a group will always have a condition in relation to your 2nd dynamic, the urge to survive through a family and sex. I'll resist the temptation to digress into how in Scientology, the 3rd dynamic always takes precedent to the 2nd dynamic.

    So the conditions are a part of the Scientology belief system and not just an administrative mechanism. However, once you accept that conditions can be and are supposed to be defined and applied without question to every aspect of your existence...and that a senior or someone else has the power to assign conditions to you, then one can see how quickly this could deteriorate into an Inquisition type environment where entire orgs are assigned a punitive condition based on something as arbitrary as a stat trend. All you need to do to keep people in a constant state of fear and oppression is to control the stat system. You can do that by denying those people the resources they need to improve their stats or constantly doing stupid shit like infiltrating and stealing from government offices, ripping off staff or sending them to the Scientology equivalent of the dungeon.

    The conditions do kind of make a sort of sense in a 1950s "How to Succeed in Business" type initial reading but after you work with them for a while it becomes apparent that they really don't make much sense. In typical Scientology application, in my opinion, the single greatest flaw is the lack of regard for the time needed to actually change the condition of something. They think conditions can be changed simply with a state of mind and that just doesn't work in reality. You actually need to accomplish something meaningful and in Scientology much of what they do is completely meaningless.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
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  12. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    Appears Mental.
  13. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    "The Greatest Good For Scientology" actually meant "The Greatest Good For The Greatest Guru".

    Either Hubbard or Miscavige, the infallible OTs saving the planet and singlehandedly salvaging this sector.

    Scientology is all about the greatest glory, power and money for the guru atop the command channel.

    Scientologists were people convinced that the sociopathically avaricious and sadistic Commodore/Cob were selflessly doing all this to just to help them go free, with prosperity & justice for all. But first, you had to "flow all your money power uplines" to the big benevolent boss being--- who would know what to do with it in order to help you, the degraded being.

  14. Alien3

    Alien3 Patron

    Especially from 60s to 80s I think Scientology was considered such a spin out, fascinating, over the top, a promise of all sorts of goodies when you get up the top such as mind reading and exteriorization and answers to the mysteries of the universe. Plus parishoners felt they had their 'special secret' which made them superior to the outside world.

    When they try and back out or buck or question the system thery are made to look like bad people, and constantly referred to Source. This are the policies and procedure written by L Ron HUbbard. I was only a sucker for several months, but my partner was highly dedicated so I stayed in for years. Mainly just to please and help him.

    *** Auditing is pretty convincing also. The participant often backtracks and 'remembers ' all sorts of experiences such as space travel in past lives. After recounting all these "experiences" to the Auditor until they feel they have cleared the earliest similar incident the participant feels almost a sense of euphoria.

    Yes it really is pretty weird. Unfortunately a lot of young people get hooked on the excitement, and daring to be different. Hopefully, the majority of this generation are far more wise and can constructive criticise, before it is too late.
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  15. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    I remember sailing through my training package as one of the few up-stat students they had in the academy at local my class IV org.
    So a hot shot wanna be ethics officer who had just returned from staff training in LA where he became an official, high trained ethics officer with burning dedication decides to try out his new ethics "conditions" tech on me by handling a consideration that he had on me, only to have me handle it on my end for him.
    He said he was assigning me a condition of doubt, or it could have been liability, but it was the lower one.
    He said "you are assigned the condition of doubt because I don't perceive any real dedication in you. You just drift in and out of here as you please without committing to staff or sea org, so I need you to read this chapter "Condition of Doubt" in some pack he hands me.
    I knew instantly it had no teeth because without me there would be no statistic at all in auditor training.
    So I said "Kleppe, you don't scare me. You can have this back and put it anywhere you'd like".
    I walked out and never got bothered again, nor did I join staff.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
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  16. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    Had Hubbard lived longer, I am convinced we would have all seen "major tech breakthroughs!" when his "wholetrack research discovered" that there were CONDITIONS BELOW CONFUSION!!!

    This, naturally, would be the "WHY" that undercut all case failures and people not going exterior and it "opened the door" to the universe's "first real OTs".

    And all Scientologists would have to do this new ethics rundown in order to "attain all of the miraculous wins of Clear and OT".

    I got in com with LRH in the theta universe and was able to retrieve the 1st condition below Confusion.

    CONDITION OF DILETTANTE: This condition is assigned when the confusion condition above it fails to orient the PC in the MEST universe sufficiently to locate where they are and how to get to the reg office. The formula for DILETTANTE is:


    I was unable at this time to channel other conditions below Dilettante.

    Because Ron's com was completely garbled and all I could hear was "STATIC".
  17. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Good question. I don't know. That's the way we did it, at our mission (Honolulu) and at Riverside Mission when I was there. It was like you describe for the RPF. You could talk to the people you were working with as necessary to get your work done, but that was it. I'm guessing there must be some reference that says this is the correct way to do it (or can be interpreted that way), or we wouldn't have done it, because of course we knew "if it isn't written it isn't true." I believe I recall seeing something on the subject at the time, but now I don't know what it was.

    If I come up with anything I'll post it. If anyone else knows of a reference on this, please chime in.
  18. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Silver Meritorious Patron


    My stats in the Academy were always POWER!!!

    On Post usually Affluence and Power more often than Normal Op.

    One time the Qual Sec tried to stick me with a Liability. I was the most Upstat Auditor FCDC ever had and he knew it. He also knew I wasn't drinking the koolaid. He knew I followed orders except when I refused. Always when I refused he could overcome my objection. I was willing enough to one sleazy thing or another, either "For The Greater Good" or just for the hell of it s long as I knew he understood my objection. If an order was either to whacky or vile I'd stonewall him and he'd drop it.

    I told the tale of the Liability Fiasce on the FCDC thread back in 2010

    If someone can link it good

    If not I'll tell the tale again...
  19. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    We learned on FEBC that it is Treason on the First Dynamic to accept a condition that you are not in. By doing so, your actual condition will drop tho the condition to the one below that which is assigned.
    As a scn'ist, one is expected to be responsible for his own condition. Or sumpin. :zombi:
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  20. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    Isn't it also a "lower condition" to commit the sin of......CAUSING A PROBLEM?

    Was that the exact wording?

    I feel that all problems are caused by beings other than the Commodore and COB. They are infallible. If we were not such DBs with such a horrifically overt-strewn wholetrack, they could have cleaned up this planet already.

    Scientologists are the root cause of all bad stats. The leaders of Scientology always have perpetually soaring graphs. It's those wicked department heads that are making our lives hell, on this planet!
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