The difference between FZ and CofS

Discussion in 'Freezone, Independents, and Other Flavors of Scien' started by Voltaire's Child, May 6, 2008.

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  1. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Many, many times I've seen people say that they think that the two are the same, just the names are different, or, on some occasions, I've seen people ask what the difference was.

    Here are differences I've noted:

    CofS has a huge well established entrenched corporate structure.

    The Freezone is just a loose knit collection of practitioners- some of whom take pcs and have courserooms, some of whom don't. There is no official One Big Thing.

    The prices are standardized in CofS. The price list is the price list. There are alleged scholarships (which is not a good term for what you actually get, but that's what they call them) and there are IAS discounts and so forth, but it's etched in stone. Prices are also extremely high.

    Freezoners charge what they want- often very little and they've been known to waive fees altogether or to accept a barter arrangement.

    CofS has heavy, heavy regging. Mortgage grandma's house. Cash in your IRA. Sell your house.

    The Freezone does not.

    CofS has staff contracts and freeloader debts.

    The Freezone has a very looseknit structure. As far as I know, there are no standardized staff contracts or freeloader debts, though I would guess that if someone opens an actual FZ center as some people have done, that they probably would come to an agreement with anyone who agreed to C/S or course supv or anything like that, as to when they could be expected to be there. Still, I've never seen anyone indentured into servitude, given huge whopping freeloader debts after working their asses off for years, beaten, starved, any of that.

    No SO and RPF or any of that in the Freezone. No institutional living.

    Nobody tells the person they can't leave in the Freezone.

    No enforced disconnection in the FZ. Nobody's told they can't talk to someone because they are hostile, left the FZ, or can't talk to the press or anything like that. If I wanted to talk to someone who left the FZ- and I do know of some people who have- nobody I know in the FZ would care.

    No coerced/recommended/enforced abortions there, either.

    Squirrelling is a meaningless term in the FZ since not everyone in the Freezone is a purist. Some people create their own processes. If a person goes off to do some offshoot or something completely different, they can come back to the FZ if they feel like it.

    No IAS in the Freezone.

    While FZ auditors, like CofS auditors, are free to accept or reject any pc they want, they still do not apply the illegal pc reference anywhere near as stringently as CofS does. Most- if not all- FZ auditors wouldn't bat an eye upon encountering a pc who'd had some Ritalin as a kid or spent a couple nights in a psych ward ten years ago or something.

    FZers aren't KR-happy. No "matters of RTC concern".

    The FZ doesn't have an OSA. Don't you think that if it was the same circus, different clowns or any of the many comments I've seen alleging that they don't see a difference between the two- that having or not having a seeekrit police might be germane? I do!

    FZers don't try to RMGRP critical forums or eradicate psychiatry- then lie about it. They don't do it at all, period. (so they don't have to then lie about it!) They tend not to care if anyone criticizes Scn, CofS, or anything else related. There are some FZers who take a rather dim view of critics and can be a bit by the book- almost like CofS members in that respect- but they don't fair game them and they don't do anything about it. They'll just ignore critics, if anything. There is no orchestrated or other directive or campaign to fuck up critics.

    CofS is imperfect. FZ is perfect in every single way.

    (Just kidding! Of course the FZ isn't perfect. I just wanted to see if you were paying attention. :p)

    In CofS, you can't criticize it or anybody in it. (they didn't like it, when, as a member, I said I did not like Jeff Pomerantz when I met him.) You can't speak up. You're told to go through channels, do this, do that, or you get in trouble. If I wanted to criticize the Freezone- which, actually, I have- it wouldn't matter to anybody. Though if I said something about an individual, he or she might have a response, same as in any other non CofS venue.

    CofS members can't sue or file charges against one another- without getting permission from the cult first. Not true of Freezoners.

    CofS has a cultic structure. The Freezone has no cultic structure because it isn't even really a group. There isn't really any "in the Freezone" regardless of how many times I just wrote it bringing us back to point #1.

    Does this mean I think the Freezone is perfect and that non CofS Scn is perfect and that it can do no wrong? Hell no. I do. I do have some criticisms of the non CofS Scn scene I've made and can make again. And I don't care if other people disapprove of it.

    But what I don't approve of- is this incorrect statement that it's the same thing as CofS, that there's no difference, there's a cult, etc. Those are not correct statements. That doesn't mean that I'm advocating the Freezone or that everybody better go out and be a Freezoner or that it's flawless.
    Maybe it's just me, but I think that if something ought to be criticized, then might as well not start the criticism out with fallacies, untruths or half truths.
  2. Kathy (ImOut)

    Kathy (ImOut) Gold Meritorious Patron

    I've done the FZ. But for me, I found it too similar to the church. As in: when you get your repayment from the church, how much are you putting on your account?
  3. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    :questions: :goodorbad:

    (I'm a little unclear- no pun intended- on what you mean re your comment. Also I looove the emoticons...)
  4. Kathy (ImOut)

    Kathy (ImOut) Gold Meritorious Patron

    Bugging me for money. Rather than the "pan determined" viewpoint of "maybe you should payoff your credit cards from the repayment from the church - since you're probably stilling paying credit card debt from all that money you put on account". Instead it's "give me more money", just like the church does.

    Does that clear (no pun intended) it up?
  5. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    That's interesting. I hadn't personally ever been bugged for money in the FZ. In fact, I've seen them waive their fees for people.

    But I do believe that somebody did push you on the money thing. And that's always going to be a turnoff for anybody, including myself.

    Thanks for replying.
  6. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    That was likely more of an issue of whatever individual or group you were "on lines with" at the time. Perspectives on "exchange" vary all over the freezone.

    From what I've seen the more structurally organized the group and the more "green on white" oriented the less flexibility.

    My suggestion to people generally is find a "techie" with no great love of "green on white" (plenty of them about). They are happy to help and not interested in creating barriers. A lot of experienced IVs, VIs & VIIIs about willing to help.

    Mark A. Baker
  7. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Oh, I don't know about that, Fluff. Most of us would join in though usually with mutually contrary perspectives. :)

    Most people in the freezone are just interested in continuing to use the tech of scientology. Factions, such as they are, tend to boil down to "how straight-laced" individuals are or which research lines individuals may find of personal interest. Most people recognize an individual's right to choose his own path.

    Such "heat" as is to be found comes from a tiny few who want to "unify" the freezone, usually around themselves as the ultimate arbiters of tech and policy. Best practice is to ignore such individuals as disruptive elements.

    Unlike the Co$, in the freezone no one expects you to put up with that sort of cr@p. :thumbsup:

    Mark A. Baker
  8. Kathy (ImOut)

    Kathy (ImOut) Gold Meritorious Patron

    From what I saw, this person was so NOT applying any Green on White. Following every other form of financial practices in the world - and that wasn't working either.

    Besides the financial pressures - there were other outnesses I just would NOT tolerate. I believe that if you associate with contagious people, you will get sick - and that doesn't just have to be a physical manifestation. People with financial absurdities can also effect/affect you.
  9. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    The two designations, "Freezone," and then "Independent Field," come in handy.

    The Cult of Ron & Xenu is central to the Standard Tech Freezone, and why would anyone be surprised if proponents of the Commodore's "Bridge" (see pervasive photo of the Commodore on Freezone links), who really feel others should be impressed when they say, "I'm a Class 8," etc., would also seek to replicate the Commodore's other "tech," in all its "Standard" glory?

    Unfortunately, this Sea Org-era Tech includes "PR Tech," and so getting straight answers from some "Standard Tech Freezoners" isn't always easy.
  10. gomorrhan

    gomorrhan Gold Meritorious Patron

    While I don't bow before the will of Classed Auditors, I do respect their education and training, as well as their commitment. I've known (and still know) a few VIII's and above, who left the Church, and who don't insist that others hold their views, but who are willing to help when called upon in the manner that they know how. They don't like to see Ron's name run down, instead preferring to pass on what they consider of value from their understanding of his work. I consider these people of great value, idealists who had and have the gumption to do what they consider right, no matter what the costs to themselves. Without them, the FZ would lack credibility to departing Churchies and I think the world would be a poorer place.
  11. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Scientology is Scientology no matter what form it is presented as.
  12. gomorrhan

    gomorrhan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Of course you're right. You made a statement of identity. What is scientology? A tool. So, how it is used becomes the really relevant point. Is it used to "assimilate your distinctiveness", is it used to help you achieve self-actualization, or whatever other goal you might have? This is the important point. I don't know, but I'd bet most of us are largely upset with the Church for lying about what can be delivered, and then trying to force us to stay or give them all our resources without delivering, and then subsequently trying to destroy our families and businesses, and us, utterly.
  13. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Well, dunno 'bout you, but to me, it matters if an entity has a secret police thing and starves people and sues everybody.

    Just sayin'.
  14. Ladybird

    Ladybird Silver Meritorious Patron

    Good point FTS! I know many X Sea Org, lots of highly trained auditors, supervisors, OTs and execs.

    None of us would do so much as a touch assist, let alone charge money for Hubbard crap.

    Believing in L. Ron Hubbard AFTER you have access to the truth about his history and lies is just inexcusible.

    I really wish all you feezone recruiters and Hubtoad fans would go spend your own time and money to make your own recruitment websites rather than take advantage of all the work and expense Emma has done here. You are ruining her board by stalking newly out scientologists who are vulnerable to scientology.

    You culties creep me out. Can't you read?????
  15. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    I think ESMB can survive some 'recruiting' efforts. Whether we do so with aplomb and humor is the real question :)

    I sometimes worry that various interest groups may color off on me in the minds of 'outsiders' and ruin my reputation...

    Then I laugh at myself and get on with whatever else I'm doing.

  16. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Emma can make up her own mind and speak for herself.
    Set up your own "We hate Hubbard and anything to do with him" board if you feel so strongly about it.
  17. Alanzo

    Alanzo Banned


    Too late!
  18. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Hi, Tansy, Thanks for quoting now that I see the allegation...

    I didn't post this thread to recruit. I was discussing differences between the two things. I also said that I don't care if people criticize the FZ. I myself have criticized it and will continue to do so.

    Of course Emma can make up her own mind. This board has a Freezone section and I assure everyone, I didn't manufacture it or set it up. Emma did.

    I don't "believe in Hubbard"- I don't find that this phrasing fits.
    But in any case, were that my choice, it would be my choice and no one else's to make for me and I would be free to talk about it anywhere I wanted.
  19. gomorrhan

    gomorrhan Gold Meritorious Patron

    And for the record, apparently many of us on this board cannot really read, or write, even with the benefit of advanced, 2008 spellcheckers on our computers. (Nevermind starting sentences out with prepositions or conjunctions! Obviously, I need Key to Life)
  20. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    The term "Hubtoad" reminds me of Dennis Erlich.


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