The E-meter Scam

Discussion in 'Scientology Technology' started by Etrawl, Oct 1, 2012.

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  1. Demented LRH

    Demented LRH Patron Meritorious

    Now, about fooling the e-meter -- if you keep your hands relaxed, then for some reason it produces the readings that Hubbard called F/N (see the HCOB that I quoted at this thread)

    If you strain your hands, the e-meter needle will follow a different pattern that did not look like F/N to Hubbard. Still, it might look like F/N to some auditors -- there is nothing objective about F/N.
  2. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    Perhaps you missed the era of Foot Plates ?

    And Wrist Straps ?

    Maybe two permanent stainless steel in the studs could be implanted temples to eliminate these introduced abritraries.......DLRH how 'bout you volunteer so we can end this discussion ?

    Please get back to me after your studs are implanted.
  3. Demented LRH

    Demented LRH Patron Meritorious

    I would go as far as saying that interpretation of F/N depends on the auditor's state of mind.

    As I said before, I did not have a sec check, so I do not know exactly what questions are asked at the sec checks. But let's say they use this question -- have you damaged the CoS reputation in any way?

    1. This is a regular sec check.
    If the person says NO, the most likely response from the auditor is "your needle is floating" because the auditor does not expect this person to be an enemy of the church; it does not matter what kind of pattern the needle follows.

    2. This is a sec check done in response to someone's KR accusing the person of saying something against the church, Hubbard, CMO, etc.
    Let's assume that the person says NO.
    Regardless of the pattern of the needle movement, the auditor will interpret it as a non-F/N response because he does not want to stand accused of helping the enemy to escape, which is likely to happen.

    I came close to having sec check once because I said that I want to do self-auditing (I'm referring to Dianetics auditing).
    The ethics officer told me that he wants to make sure that an enemy like me would not go undetected. I am sure that he would have interpreted the e-meter readings as a non-FN motion; he already had a preconceived idea about me being an enemy.

    "Not so fast", I said and showed him quotation from Dianetics book saying that self-auditing can be done. The case was closed.
  4. omnom

    omnom Patron with Honors

    There's a lot of armchair science going on here.

    I recall the thread with Paul/DOF and one of the more vocal Anon folks that I think may have led directly to some of Paul's videos. It was a fascinating thread.

    I am entirely unconvinced of the idea of charge and blowing mass and whatnot, but I cannot debunk it entirely either, because I've never held the cans and observed the results. I'm intrigued by the pinch-test, for example, because it is measuring *something*, but nobody seems to have a very clear objective definition of "it" that I can grok.

    Therefore, I conclude that someone should dig up their old meter that they were going to throw away anyway someday and send it to me. I'm not personally invested enough to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on a kit, nor am I an EE, so I'm not going to build my own.

    Really, for whatever reason, the e-meter is something I'd like to check out, if only for my own curiosity.
  5. Demented LRH

    Demented LRH Patron Meritorious

    I wish I had an e-meter so I could send it to you. But I never bought one for myself. I heard that the folks who recently left CoS sell their e-meters on eBay at a nominal price.
  6. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    If someone could locate that thread, it might be useful as a reference.

    Hubbard, 1952:

    "This is a cold blooded and factual account of your last 60 trillion years..."

    From old timer John Sanborn:

    "In a (early/mid 1950s) Phoenix Congress... he talked about spooky whole track stuff. He had a floodlight on the floor in front of this little platform shining up, because that makes you look ghouly. And his face looked really weird and outer space and really crazy... and he talked weird... I think he was trying to drive people a little bit wacko so they'd fall into his hand a little bit."

    Hubbard, 1963:

    "Now, I'll give you an idea - an idea of this. For instance, I know - I know where I was and who I was, and know with good certainty, who I was and where I was in the last eighty trillion years. See, I know that; that's not much of an argument with me. But the small details of that are liable to go fritter-fritter here and there. You know, what did I have for breakfast two trillion years ago? No. Nix, man. Nah. Did I even eat, you see? That sort of thing is getting pretty dim."

    Hubbard, 1966:

    "Many persons experience unreality at the start of [ancient implants told to the person] GPM running. This leaves when you see the meter reads."
  7. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    If you ever get hold of one, be careful of any immediate conclusions you draw. Story:

    I have a friend locally who's recently become interested in Scn-related matters. I've been trying to steer him away from Scn itself. He's visited a couple of times. He tried building an e-meter and some months ago brought over what he had made, and I checked it over, and it didn't really work at all. A couple of weeks ago he came over with a Mark V that he had obtained from somewhere, that seemed to work OK. I put him on the cans, set the sensitivity, with the TA at around 2.5, nice loose needle, and did a "stress test" with him able to see the dial: think of something very stressful. I got a nice read after a couple of seconds, said "that," and "that" again a few seconds later (a similar read, not identical), and asked if he'd found something stressful. He smiled and said yes. I didn't want any details. I said that was all we were going to do and he put the cans down.

    He had very little time left for his visit. He had wanted to get some reality on using a meter and now had it. He had experience of using PaulsRobot3 to discharge anything stressful, so I wasn't too concerned about stirring something up.

    I mentioned that the meter read first on "the session," the communication between the auditor and the pc, and that if he played with the meter himself, just having random things running through his mind and looking at the meter dial, then the needle would just rise (move to the left, showing increasing resistance) and rise, finally stopping around TA 6* with a stuck needle. He laughed and said that was exactly what had happened with him. I told him it happened like that to most people. Since the meter reads first on the session rather than the pc's "case," it was probably reacting to his lack of confidence in the auditor (himself), as he knew dick about operating a meter. Conversely, he had a lot of confidence in me, and so the meter was able to read on his life like it was meant to.

    *TA 2.5 = (approx) 8000 ohms and TA 6.0 = 292,000 ohms per this link:

  8. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

  9. omnom

    omnom Patron with Honors

    To be honest, I'd probably play with it a bit out of curiosity, then check out a metering course online to familiarize myself with a very basic understanding of how to use it. Thank you for the heads-up, though. I appreciate it.

    Anything I'd come up with would be only my own curiosity - nothing I would be doing would be scientifically admissible, nor an authority. I just really want to see it in action (on me) without having to go sit at the mall in some downstat booth and don't plan on giving out contact information to Div 6.
  10. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Go to the mall! Really, do it, assuming this is a possibility for you. It won't cost you anything (leave all cash and plastic at home), and you should have enough confidence in the person operating the meter for it to read properly. And it's certainly easier than buying one or making one. Plus you can ask the guy questions, then check his answers with us afterwards. :)

    For an email address, use Mailinator at It's wonderful. You choose an address, any address, like No sign-up at all. To check your inbox go to Use too simple a name and there will be messages already for other people who have used that same name. No privacy at all. Check out a few, like for instance — you'll see that "paul" gets hundreds of spam messages a day and so is useless if you want to actually receive (and read) something personal there.

  11. Infinite

    Infinite Crusader


  12. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Don't confuse 'charge' with the electrical concept. Nor 'mass' with the physical one. Both represent subjective states of feeling.

    Charge represents the degree which something is upsetting to one's sense of well-being. Mass is the associated mental sensation of heaviness which often accompanies such upset.

    Example: if a guy thinks his girlfriend is dating someone else he is apt to be upset and anxious, feeling charged up. His spirits will be heavy. when he finds out he is mistaken, perhaps he mistook her sister for her, then the upset (charge) vanishes and his spirit lifts (mass vanishes).

    Hubbard himself confused the issue, no doubt due to his poor understanding of the actual functioning of the emeter and his attempt to force his theories to conform with the observed actual functioning of emeters in session.

    Charge and mass in auditing represent subjective mental states and feelings, not physical quantities.

    Mark A. Baker
  13. omnom

    omnom Patron with Honors

    Well, he spelled out "sixty", but that is in the Foreward. I have a copy of the 1968 printing of AHOM I got at a used bookstore for a couple of bucks. Inside the front cover is an old "To the reader:" stick-on disclaimer, and hand-written wording saying: "Qual Div. Sac. Org."

    A lot of people gag on the clam and weeper incidents, but one of my favorite lines is the last line in this edition:
    "Aside from inaccessible persons and psychotics in general, most cases should become MEST clear in a few weeks of hard auditing."

    I also have the Astounding Science Fiction of May 1950 (with the cover as in the video above) that I found on eBay. What a dense load of nonsense that is.
  14. Adam7986

    Adam7986 Declared SP

    Our memories aren't very reliable to begin with. It's actually pretty easy to fool someone into remembering something that didn't happen even without cult indoctrination.
  15. omnom

    omnom Patron with Honors

    Oh I'm down with email addresses. I also hope they don't recognize me from spending some time in front of the Org with people carrying signs...

    Plus, somebody awesome set me up with an "upstat" gmail address :)

    If I do this, I'll definitely start a thread on it.
  16. Adam7986

    Adam7986 Declared SP

    5 Mind Blowing Ways Your Memory Plays Tricks On You

    Check out that article if you want to learn a bit about how unreliable humans' memories are and also have a little humor in the process.
  17. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Which is why that which is important in auditing to address isn't the objective truth of incident content but whether any emotional charge associated with the ideas contained therein has been fully addressed. Individual pcs can decide for themselves whether to believe the incidents. Belief is not necessary for success in auditing.

    Mark A. Baker
  18. omnom

    omnom Patron with Honors

    Interesting. I think I understood "charge" somewhat properly, but "mass" I most definitely did not. Is this explained by any official LRH writings, or is this one of the refinements made outside of CoS?

    Although I'd be walking in with a heavy bit of criticism, I'm also aware that any preconceptions I have are just a hypothesis. I'm hoping that if I did go sit down at a table at the mall, they'd be used to this and easily diffuse my early objections.

    I really want to see this work with me, so I can get a better ideas of how it works (not the mechanics of it, but the reported result to me as a PC). I'm truly interested.
  19. Adam7986

    Adam7986 Declared SP

    In that way auditing can actually make you "feel better" or "experience a win" by causing your mind to generate an emotionally traumatic or painful experience which never happened in the first place then causing you to experience said trauma and recover from the associated negative feelings all in a single sitting.

    Its like when you get really sick and then you feel better. Even though you are only back to normal you feel amazing because you felt so terrible only a short while ago.

    Except in this case someone made you sick and then made you better which means the entire procedure was pointless because you weren't sick in the first place.
  20. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Trauma is trauma. The 'events' used to explain trauma aren't necessarily true. Many suffer trauma from events which did not in fact occur as they may recall them. Doesn't lessen the trauma, just the trustworthiness of their own particular memory of events.

    Memory is not an infallible process.

    Mark A. Baker