The E-meter Scam

Discussion in 'Scientology Technology' started by Etrawl, Oct 1, 2012.

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  1. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    My explanations of the terms are based both on descriptions of the terms in the scientology materials along with how they are actually encountered and used in session.

    Hubbard's usage is often inconsistent. Much of hubbard's writings are directly logically inconsistent. They also reflect hubbard's own very poor state of knowledge with regard to basic science and mathematics. Anything he had to say relating to the subject of physics in particular should not be relied upon as trustworthy. He was a failed science student for good reason.

    Mark A. Baker
  2. Adam7986

    Adam7986 Declared SP

    Yes but the fact remains that auditing could and likely does create trauma that never existed in the first place. That negates the entire idea of "removing past trauma" to better someone.

    In fact you just trick them into thinking they are feeling better by making them feel like shit and then telling them it's okay.

    Things like this are so subjective though.

    I think that rather than encouraging someone to "re-" live trauma which may or may not have occurred is a lot less effective than encouraging someone to develop practical skills which allow them to overcome present day obstacles.

    Auditing itself is very backwards. You're encouraging someone to fixate on the past while telling them it will help them with their present day lives. It makes no sense.

    Show me someone who had a physical deformity or debilitating illness that was cured by spending time meditating on past experiences which may or may not have happened. I will show you someone who is convinced that imaginary time travel can change the future.

    Rhetorical of course. That's not a literal demand.
  3. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Not at all. You have over-simplified the matter.

    The abuse of auditing might. The same is true of any abuse of trust. Betrayal by a friend creates trauma. Indiscreet remarks by a minister produces trauma.

    Auditing is a trust based process,abuse of that trust is what has the potential to create trauma. The same is true with any form of counseling.

    Mark A. Baker
  4. Adam7986

    Adam7986 Declared SP

    Psychiatry and psychology abandoned "regression" techniques (which one could equate to auditing) as common practice because of it's propensity to create memories out of thin air. That's very different than trauma experienced by abuse of a trusting relationship.

    I'm talking about literally creating a "Dianetic Engram" which never existed.

    My dad thought that he had been soaked in gasoline as a kid. It wasn't him. It was in fact his brother who had been soaked in gasoline as a kid. My dad ran back to church to ask about it and they told him that it was "valence shifting".

    And thus we see how different parts of Dianetics and Scientology cannot exist independent from the whole. All of the millions of words Hubbard wrote were to explain why auditing didn't work. Hence the need for correction lists, study tech, ethics, justice, PTS Tech, ad infinitum.

    Instead of just evolving his therapy into a workable therapy like psychology and psychiatry, he insisted on being right and worked his best to convince everyone about how right he was. Then he created PTS and Ethics Tech to prove to everyone they are criminals and they are wrong.

    I think the lucrative nature of his business was discovered by accident.

    ETA: David Miscavich continues Hubbard's process with the Golden Age of Everything Under the Sun, Moon and Stars. He really is following in Hubbard's footsteps.

    Scientology is not expanding so create something to explain why: alter checksheets, create new drills, promise superpower, buy new churches. declare everyone SPs, etc.
  5. Demented LRH

    Demented LRH Patron Meritorious

    When I was a Scientologist, I tried hard to understand what Hubbard meant by the "mass" in reference to the engram -- is it a real mass or a feeling of heaviness, as Mark wrote?
    I could not reach a conclusion, but I do not think that it was my fault.
  6. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    To read MAB trying to explain LRH after saying he is " logically inconsistent" is PIMP funny stuff !

    I had no idea this thread would end up this funny ! Thanks MAB !

    PS - Oh, has anyone ever had their e meter play " Dixie " ?

    We might start a thread comparing renditions !
  7. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Hubbard's e-meter books say something like the meter passes a small current through the body, which measures its resistance. When something charged is encountered, that something has mass, which increases the resistance, which is measured on the meter. When the person does whatever auditing process is involved, the charge is dissipated, and the resistance comes down. There is no metaphor or allegory involved in the "official" explanation — the mass is mass, grams and ounces and pounds. The "Understanding the E-Meter" book says mental image pictures have weight, and there is even a diagram of a person surrounded by lots of heavy-looking (charged) mental image pictures, and a scale showing an increase of 30 lb. because Hubbard [STRIKE]lied about[/STRIKE] said that (the 30 lb. increase) in a lecture once. There's a diagram of a person holding a can in each hand and arrows showing the flow of current up one arm and across the chest and down the other arm and completing the circuit through the meter.

    On a cursory not-too-scientific inspection it sounds OK, apart from the 30 lb. thing. The meter measures the resistance in the body, and the resistance observably goes up when one thinks of emotionally-charged stuff and goes down when one discharges that heavy stuff.

    The explanation wobbles a bit when one considers that some emotionally-charged thing produces exactly the same meter readings, both as to TA (resistance) and needle reads, when holding a can in each hand and holding solo cans in one hand only, with the cans separated by maybe 2 mm of insulator. At least, the TA is exactly the same if the same amount of skin is on the cans when held solo or in two hands.

    Observably, the TA can crash from 6.0 to 2.0 in a few seconds, i.e. the resistance across the body (or across 2 mm of skin) changing from literally 200,000 ohms to 5,000 ohms in a couple of heartbeats. What physical change in the body causes the change in reading? I don't know, although the change in the pc is obvious!

  8. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Ammeters of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but insults from idiots.

    - L. Ron Hubbard

    Both comments denigrating function.
  9. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    the bottom line: meters are workable session tools, although not essential ones; and hubbard's explanation as to why they work is bunk.

    Mark A. Baker
  10. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Its very reassuring to know that your expertise is not from hands on
    experience but purely from a pure philosophical "thought experiment" basis.

    Can you enlighten us on further mysteries?
  11. omnom

    omnom Patron with Honors

    To be fair, so is mine. So is all of ours, really, since to my knowledge, nobody inside or outside of the CoS has submitted this to the proper process to understand fully how/why it works the way it does, nor the money or inclination to do so.

    Unfortunately, as a "non-funded researcher", the bar is a little too high to try this out for many people, cost-wise. The divide for me is that if I were sufficiently invested in the outcome, I could justify the cost, but I'm really not, so I don't. Besides, when you're invested in the idea, confirmation bias concerns me, so I have to take both polar sides with a similar grain of salt.

    I did enjoy Paul's videos referenced above in the thread, though.
  12. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    So, first a 'genius' conman LRH lies and manipulates.

    Then the genius Mark Baker shows up to misrepresent the lies, the conman and the manipulation with such an assured air of authority. How wonderful. Now we know how to deal with trauma.

    I did not think the coolaid could be made any worse. But apparently it can.
  13. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    Mark has explained that the incidents from the past that one talks about in auditing can be imaginary...he says it does not matter if they are real or not. And that is what Mark seems to think about a lot of other things to do with Scientology. Mark imagines something about scientology and tries to fob it off as the truth. Most people call this lying or at the least gross misrepresentation.

    "....In the most recent edition of the book Scientology - The Fundamentals of Thought, author L. Ron Hubbard explains:
    Whether the facsimile in the mind is received while the thetan is awake or unconscious, the resulting mass of the "energy picture" is energy -- just as you see energy in an electric bulb or from the flames of a fire. At one time it was considered that "mental energy" was different from "physical energy." In Scientology it has been discovered that mental energy is simply a finer, higher-level physical energy.

    The test of this is conclusive in that a thetan, mocking-up (creating) mental image pictures and thrusting them into the body, can increase the body mass. And, by casting them away again, can decrease the body mass. This test has actually been made and an increase of as much as thirty pounds (actually measured on scales) has been added to and subtracted from a body by creating mental energy.L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology - The Fundamentals of Thought, (c) 2007 L. Ron Hubbard Library, at pg. 72 (emphasis added). (The Scientology term "thetan" is roughly equivalent to the word "soul." The difference is that in Christianity, for example, one would say that you have a soul. In Scientology one would say you are a thetan who happens to possess a body.)
  14. Adam7986

    Adam7986 Declared SP

    Scientology is always promoted as "simple" until someone tries to explain it in a way that a Scientologist disagrees with.

    Then all of a sudden it becomes complicated and you become wrong because you can't grasp how simple it is.

    It's so simple that you can't understand it because it's too simple. So please take this 50,000 word course pack and listen to 6 hours of lectures so you can understand how simple it is.
  15. Infinite

    Infinite Crusader

    Heh! The last resort of the apologist: "workable". Hells bells, a teaspoon is a "workable session tool" for digging a tunnel, but not essential.
  16. HoraciotheOT8

    HoraciotheOT8 Patron with Honors

    True, however, if one were in a prison and the only tool one had available for digging a tunnel for escape, was a spoon, that spoon would in fact be essential in addition to being workable. Do the metaphorical transposition. Surely you will understand.

    The e-meter (and the spoon) are not the problem. And never were the problem. And never will be the problem. The prison is the problem. And how to escape from the prison is the problem. And how to 'use' the spoon to dig the tunnel to escape from the prison is the problem.

    Having an e-meter and bitching about the mechanics of it, is like receiving a rose and complaining about the color of it. Better to enjoy it or discard it. It being both.

    much love,
  17. Adam7986

    Adam7986 Declared SP

    So what you're basically saying is that the e-meter was created out of desperation and not the ludicrous feat of engineering that it was promoted to be?
  18. HoraciotheOT8

    HoraciotheOT8 Patron with Honors

    Close. Not bad. But it's more like: Necessity is the Mother of Invention. Along with a few other choice clich'es.

    For example: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. (the ability to fool both an emeter 'and' an auditor is commonplace, in certain higher circles).

    And: A fool and his money are soon parted.

    And: Hell knoweth no fury like the wrath of an ex-scientologist. etc. etc. etc.

    much love,
  19. Adam7986

    Adam7986 Declared SP

    So what you're saying is that Hubbard was a fool because Miscavige took all his money and spent it on things that Hubbard himself would never have spent it on?
  20. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    As you said....cliches.