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The Edge interview with high level scientology defector (Bill Franks)

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Well, No Name the way I understood was the correct way to handle the contradictions was to follow the latest hcob on the subject. I did that and it seemed to go fine.

All joking aside, that would be the logical way to handle it, and a sensible assumption for a footsoldier who doesn't want to end up in the RPF. But I was always bothered by the idea of Truth and infallibility of the dreck. Well, infallible until LRH says its fallible. At which point it's no longer infallible. Or it works (until LRH decides it doesn't work).

One of the many contradictions in the Co$.
 
What I don't understand is this: Why would Ron put this on the D of T's lines? I can find it hard to believe he would say it to the sr. C/S, let alone someone that far down the org board.

Let's say Ron knows it is a con, it always been a con, and therefor what does it depend on? Not letting anybody, especially the tech guys, in on the fact it is a con - if they realize it they will leave, or not do their jobs and, like he says he will lose control.

Lets say Ron believes in Scientology, it's tech, it's purposes etc. and though he knows a lot of results are belief or placebo based, to keep the belief system intact, and to thus "keep Scientology working" likewise, he can't afford to let the tech guys know the truth can he? Again - it falls apart and he loses control.

Let's assume he did tell them, why would he? I'd like to hear your ideas on that.

Mimsey

There seem to be a couple others who received the same message run that night. I was bad bad bad to have a student or PC "Blow"... It could get all who worked with him sent to the chain locker.
 
You would have taken the hit for the outcome of His orders - not Him. He would have made sure it was done in a way that would not implicate Him. You go to jail . He stays free.

He would not have given murder instructions in any way such that He could have been held accountable.

I would not trust this Bill Franks character as far as I could throw him. Is he a fat bastard like Marty?

Bill Franks is a completely different person than Marty Rathburn, worked with Hubbard directly for many many years. He has been living his life ever since the 81-82 take over. He is calm, and has nothing to gain by speaking out.

What he says in the interview matches with several personal experiences I have had in this area. I have no doubt of what he says.
 

JustMe

Patron Meritorious
........What he says in the interview matches with several personal experiences I have had in this area. I have no doubt of what he says.

Same here. And I know that you did work directly with LRH and have posted and spoken well about many of your experiences.

As always, thank you:)
 
Ugh. I was afraid you would ask that. :p

To tell you the truth, I don't remember a lot of it. I just remember being shocked by it.

Let me see what I can remember.

The advice where he told whoever to rip any money they could out of the orgs. He didn't care where it came from as long as it wasn't out of promo. (So much about his "policy" about staff pay.)

I remember reading advices where he said horrible things about people I personally knew. One of the creepiest things that happened was when Mary Ziff gave me some advice files to read, and in one of the advices...he said horrible things about Mary Ziff. How brainwashed do you have to be to pass on that kind of stuff about yourself because The Founder could do nothing wrong?

The advice where he applauded Bitty Miscavige for her daily RPFing of "List 1 R/Sers". (Which he afterwards knew nothing about, of course.)

There were more. Like I said, I don't remember the specifics of all of it. And even if I did, what I read would have to be taken in context of who I was, where I was on the org board and what I did. I may have been shocked because, as I said. I was low on the food chain.

The big thing I remember being shocked by (which in retrospect seems almost comical) was, in the mid 1980s, reading a dispatch from Marc Yager to the then-SEI (Services Exec Int) where he casually mentions that LRH had never seen any of the materials of the CCRD.

As an AO staff member, that completely blew me away. I had personally disseminated the supposed LRH CCRD HCO PLs and HCOBs on CCRD.

Only to find out the guy had never even seen this stuff?

Like I said. I don't know if Bill Franks is telling the truth. I have just been in that position of seeing something I wasn't supposed to see...that changed everything I thought I knew.

I understand where you are coming from Mimsie. I was on the lines to read all of LRH's traffic, every morning for years. Some of it was just plain cruel and mean. But not very many people were allowed in on that private circle, so there are not many (like you and I) who can speak of it.

But that doesn't mean that the few of us are lying or making it up. I couldn't make up some of his telexes.. they could be jarring, to say the least.
 

JustMe

Patron Meritorious
I have known this for years (he did it all, denied he had any knowledge to his staff, got rid of all staff who would know it came from him, and then had her go to jail, while he went into hiding. I know specifically of one messenger he looked dead in the eye and said "I knew nothing, I hadn't a clue"... Sadly she believed him as I guess more members and ex members than I thought did.
nancy

Hubbard bold face lied many, many times. Other examples from post 9 of this thread below:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...d-Prone-to-Hallucinations&p=677152#post677152
 
Oh. Bill I had not seen your post 119 as I was drafting mine.

I am glad you reported to the authorities.

Hubbard most surely used emotion and ideals, essential factors of life, to build his mind control cult.
As I see it his evident intent was not for the good of mankind but for his sole narcissistic aggrandizement.

Thank you so much for this Bill, and for your frank and truthful interview. There are several areas that I witnessed myself from another 'location' than where you were -- Like the setting up of MSH. You have now given me the broader view.

Your honesty is like a breath of fresh air blowing through all these various points of view and conclusions. And yes, we have all be hurt or damaged by this 'thing" no matter the length of time of involvement...

Bless you my frend,
Nancy Foster Many
 
One of the many contradictions in the Co$.
That, my friend, No Name, was the most difficult thing for me to believe after I was declared and started reading stuff on the net about Hubbard. The do as I say, not as I do aspect of him, the duplicity, started destroying my faith in him and what he wrote. I still find stuff like the Bill Franks tape which I just listened to, well, not to sound overly dramatic, shocking and yet believable. And then I think of the indi's I know, and how they still believe in his tech, either excuse his lies as exaggerations because that sort of person is that way, or won't brook listening to entheta about him. I am surprised the depth of the hold he has over them.

Wow.

Mimsey
 

Lone Star

Crusader
I listened to the complete interview. There are a few things that I found amazing and helpful:

1. The MP murder story;
2. LRH causing MSH to end up in jail;
3. A confirmation that Quentin was gay;
4. ARCX's (not O/W) causing someone to leave (no surprise to me) but interesting and we heard this previously;
5. The comments Bill heard from Margaret Singer regarding brainwashing.

Bill's posts clarify what's important: Scientology is a rip off and LRH was a thug who would stop at nothing to protect himself. Bill's straightforward tone and detailed memory is compelling.

This is an important interview in the uncloaking of Scientology; it's a big deal. Bill Franks was one of the top guys for quite a while and worked directly under LRH. Bill isn't a high profile guy who got there after LRH died. Bill isn't an Anonymous who never set foot in an org. Bill was on the Flagship; Bill was there at the Mission holders meetings; Bill was there when Miscavage was just starting out.

Keep writing, Bill. You have a ready audience. It's very helpful.


And this interview came out close to the time Marty's book did. :biggrin:
 

Gadfly

Crusader
That, my friend, No Name, was the most difficult thing for me to believe after I was declared and started reading stuff on the net about Hubbard. The do as I say, not as I do aspect of him, the duplicity, started destroying my faith in him and what he wrote. I still find stuff like the Bill Franks tape which I just listened to, well, not to sound overly dramatic, shocking and yet believable. And then I think of the indi's I know, and how they still believe in his tech, either excuse his lies as exaggerations because that sort of person is that way, or won't brook listening to entheta about him. I am surprised the depth of the hold he has over them.

Wow.

Mimsey

Hubbard did his job of mind control VERY well, indeed!

I am not at all surprised about the depth of the hold Hubbard still has on some.

It is simple really. To the degree that any person accepts and believes more and more of the details of Hubbard's make-believe fantasy world known as Scientology, to THAT degree it continues to have a hold over them.

Hubbard talks about how "considerations and agreements determine ones reality". That is true. Hubbard did a very good job of creating an indoctrination system that masterfully "implants" a new set of considerations and agreements into the minds of the Scientology followers.

That is all that is going on. People believe, they come to believe HARD, and they become trapped within the web of their own beliefs. Hubbard knew what he was doing. For all the things he may have been, he was not "stupid". :no:

Hubbard took the activities of "mind control" to new levels of expertise. He was NOT a nice man. :no:
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
I don't want to put words in Bill Franks mouth, but this is how I understand what he said in the interview regarding the murder and other planned murders of British Members of the House of Commons.

Tom Smith asked if Bill Franks, as a result of Bill being ED Int (circa 1981), had the opportunity to know what the GO was doing.

Over the next 4 or so minutes Bill states YES, that he had READ of the plans to KILL 3 Member of the House of Commons. One of which he KNOWS was murdered in probably 1979. And that he recalled having brushed up against this (not sure what this refers to) about 6 years earlier.

Anyone can re-listen to the interview between 13 and approx 18 minutes to verify this.

Bill, I have a Question. Why would you say it is "unfair" to state names now that it is now in the range of 33 years after the facts?

I see three Member of Parliament, who were murdered between 1973 and 1979, per the link provided earlier.

Sir Richard Sharples 1973, Captian Walter Scott Elliot 1977 and Airey Neave 1979.

Alan Graham Brown 1972 and Desmond Donnelly 1974 committed suicide

Putting this murder idea up against the fully confirmed story of Paulette Cooper in the same era, but different country, I have good reason to believe the high probability of the GO masterminding such a murder.

Would it be useful to have a motive and perhaps a dead body killed by foul means by an unknown assailant or should we not bother with these minor details?
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Actually, this may be true in so far as I am pretty inept when it comes to using a computer for the simplest of tasks. However, i have recently been assisting on some pretty delicate projects and while on the computer at 1500 hrs EST a few weeks ago someone came onto my computer and totally took ver, cursor and all. i turned it off but apparently this was not enough-I should have disconnected the power.
The next day, I found out that someone had erased as well as edited a lot of work that I had done, as well as tried to transfer a very substantial some of money from a brokerage acount that i hold in another city to malaysia. it was a very sophisticated job down to copying my rather poor typing habits.
This initself does not prove who did it, but it is unusual that they took the time to edit material that was pertinent to a certain group we are aware of.
I send this as a warning to others only. Unfortunately, my old address still does not receive inmail(except for spam and lots of it) and I have been forced to follow an entirely new, and I hope better, security regimen. best, Bill franks

I sincerely hope you have the best security advice possible!
 

Veda

Sponsor
Whatever the reason(s), Hubbard had a serious problem with the truth and, IMO, with general competency.

Over an eight year time span I suppose I got maybe 250 or so orders directly from him. Receiving and complying with orders from Hubbard taught me a few things, many I did not truly understand until years after I was out.

One thing is how easily he lied. Either he was just a bold faced liar, lying for personal gain at the expense of others, or he was so incompetent that he did not even know he was lying. Or, something else I cannot now imagine.

He also was often very cruel including gross acts of cruelty against those who had dedicated their very lives to support him and scientology. And, IMO his orders often betrayed the fact that he was incompetent.

A few examples:

(i) he told Scientologists in broad issues that he took no money from Scientology, that it was in effect a labor of love. Truth be told he took many tens of millions of dollars from Scientology and demanded more and more constantly. To the public he was a saint, one who was not in it for the money. But in his most private communications with some of those at the very top he accepted no excuses for not getting his take of the proceeds of organized Scientology regularly. And he often saw as enemies any who he felt stood in the way of him and his money;

(ii) he ordered those at the very top in the Watchdog Committee to get every possible dime they could out of any and all possible organizations of the scientology empire. He said to take the money from local orgs before they could spend it. It did not matter that the orgs were almost always left with insufficient money to feed their staffs, to give them proper medical care or to support their own children. He wanted to take the money out of their control and to end up getting his share;

(iii) when cases were lost and money had to be paid to victims of scientology Hubbard was outraged. And it was not because there were victims but rather because money had to be paid out. He would order new, deceptive ways to hide the money through corporate/contractual shell games so none of it could be gotten through litigation should scientology lose instead of focusing on why there were victims in the first place. Case in point is the Christofferson case and Hubbard's order to Sue Mithoff in 1979 re the creation of Scientology Missions International and why it was needed;

(iv) In 1982/1983 Hubbard blew up when he found out that so many books not written by him were sold on org lines and even in some cases by the publications organizations themselves. He demanded heads on pikes to find those who were trying to destroy him and scientology pushing his policy "Vital Data On Promotion" and the part of it that stressed no books by others. While external influence missions were sent all around the world to find and punish all responsible for this, and all who supported it, what he never would mention was that it was he himself who approved many of those books.

For example, Hubbard told me that he had never approved a Ruth Minshull book and only ever had seen one of them - "Miracles for Breakfast". Yet I later found out and confirmed that not only did he see others of her books but he actually approved them in writing for distribution on org lines in exchange for a piece of the action. I later got the approvals from Ruth herself and confirmed from a key messenger that she actually witnessed Hubbard signing the approvals;

(v) in the same time period as in "iv" above Hubbard was constantly demanding that external influences be found as it must be them that was holding scientology down. Scientologists around the world, most of them staff, were horribly abused, gang bang sec checks became rampant, declares reached all time highs and countless families were destroyed through disconnection simply because Hubbard's saw enemies in his most loyal and dedicated followers when he was not getting his way;

(vi) Hubbard often gave horribly stupid orders into the corporate area and there were often people who had to constantly figure out how to "make him feel right" and not comply with the orders without having him go ballistic. One example was Hubbard ordering the selling of minister status for big bucks so that the people getting them could get all sorts of tax benefits and related perks (such as tax deductions for their home mortgages, etc.). Great effort had to be made to not comply and yet make it look like one was complying so as not to incur his wrath.

There are countless examples of these sort of things.

I cannot say with certainty what drove a man to do all this but I can say that the fraud, cruelty and betrayal spanned decades and was not just something found in his last few years of almost complete mental breakdown.

It is my belief that the insane paranoia and fear that Hubbard constantly showed was woven throughout scientology policy. Such things as the RPF, heavy ethics for counter and other intentions (to his own), the cruelty of disconnection and so much more all to "protect" a tech he called priceless but was rather valueless to most who tried it.

This is also reflected in his crazy ramblings were he saw enemies everywhere and demanded the destruction of those who opposed his will.

And, I submit that the entire corporate structure of organized scientology, all the lies that make up the foundation of that house of cards as well as the religious cloaking that helps hold it in place is nothing more than a reflection of that same, insane paranoia of Hubbard as he demanded control of his little empire while cowardly hiding behind its myriad veils so as not to be held liable for that of which he was completely liable.

I submit that Hubbard had no really great accomplishments. The bigger accomplishments (such as they were) in the history of organized scientology were IMO not achieved by Hubbard. Rather they were achieved by loving, dedicated and, yes, misled people who themselves put it all on the line to dedicate themselves and their lives to the following of a man who would ultimately betray them.

I find it difficult to find any real hate in my heart for this but there is much sadness in there. A sadness for all the good souls who cared and who tried to follow a dream and were betrayed.

Did Hubbard really think he would "clear the planet" and that scientology should really expand well beyond his own life? I don't know for sure but I cannot get this troubling thought out of my mind: I once went to the leaders of the Watchdog Committee and the then leader of RTC before Miscavige took over. I tried to reconcile the constant demands for money every week. I asked how will we clear the rest of the planet when such a large portion of it could not afford scientology services.

All I got back were blank stares.

And I had a sad :bigcry:

:goodposting:

Some background material - reposts - in case any puzzled newbie lurkers are looking in...

According to Jesse Prince, former senior Scientology executive:

"Miscavige is continuing to carry out LRH's orders...

"...Miscavige is doing his best to forward Command Intention, which is contained in the huge LRH orders database of the INCOMM computer system of Scientology..." http://www.ezlink.com/~perry/CoS/Theology/jesse.htm


From Denise Brennan:

"There was a real secret body of people directly run by Hubbard."

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=90246&postcount=1


From a 1986 interview of Martin Samuels, former Mission Holder, and founder of the Delphian School, from the 'Reflections' chapter of the book, 'L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman?' http://www.amazon.com/reader/0942637577?_encoding=UTF8&ref_=sib_dp_pt :


"Hubbard operated according to a couple of key patterns.

"The first pattern involved basically decent well intentioned people... no one was able to rise in the organization to a point of any real proximity to him, without being attacked and vilified...

"And of course the next person thinks he or she is immune...

"The next pattern: It's reap and rape. Hubbard would let the reins loose. He'd let people believe they really could get on with it... He'd let people believe they really could prosper to the full extent of their own ability, and enjoy the fruits of their labor.

"And, with that kind of freedom, prosperity does occur, Inevitably, though, he'd come along and rape and pillage and rip off and take what had been produced. The most dramatic example of this was '82, '83, when he 'raped' his most decent people in management along with the mission holders, and looted the entire mission network.

"And look at this pattern... He surrounded himself with absolute hooligans as 'managers'; guys who beat the shit out of people. This man, who 'is this OT, the author of Science of Survival, completely able to predict human behavior', surrounded himself with ruthless people - like Miscavige - who got there because they emulated Hubbard's savagery. They emulated his total willingness to completely break, use, and discard another person.

"And then after their hands were so bloody - and the only reason their hands were bloody was that they were doing what Hubbard wanted - when it finally started to get to the point where it couldn't be tolerated by people anymore, Hubbard wiped them out. Then he said. 'My God! I didn't know!' Scapegoat. He even did that to his own wife, who went to jail in his place...

"But the thing that's amazing, and to me terrifying, is the characteristic of the mind, my mind, your mind, and apparently many other people's minds, where I could buy this horseshit, where I could participate in it."



Jesse Prince, Legal Declaration, 1999: http://lermanet.com/reference/Jesse2inWoller.htm


Excerpt from the 1991 David Mayo (Ex Scientologist, Class XII and former Senior C/S International, and Hubbard's personal auditor) article on 'Clear':

"It was PR and marketing considerations that led Hubbard to decide that certain people were 'clear' at a certain point..."

And from author Russell Miller's interview of David Mayo from August 1986.

"What worried me was that I saw some things he did and statements he made that showed his intentions were different from what they appeared to be...

"He told me he was obsessed with an insatiable lust for power and money. He said it very emphatically. He thought it wasn't possible to get enough. He didn't say it as if it was a fault, just his frustration that he couldn't get enough."
 
Re: Bill Franks says the Cof$ murdered a British Member of Parliament.

So they never murdered Kenneth Robinson after all he did and after he sued them for libel and got loads of money out of them so who did they set out to murder? Who was worse than him in their eyes and for what reason? I mentioned the MP for East Grinstead who opposed them who lived until he was 84. If not those two then who and for what reason? Who did worse than those two and were closer? Let's restrict this to British MPs. Killing one of them is serious biz. If the Church can't kill either of those then why kill another with a lesser perceived crime against them? For sending back a complimentary copy of Dianetics?

Please people, stop and think about this and I hope that like me you will consider Bill Franks to be full of bullshit and somebody never to listen to.

I call Bill Franks bluff. Docs or STFU. I think the guy is full of shit.

I think that since Bill has already put this out in public, the discussion about it here is worthwhile. If Bill is BSing we will at least learn more about the endlessly fascinating arts of BSing, which is something I have learned more about than anything else on ESMB. Sorry to all non BSers or just trivial BSers, that's not meant as a general put down of ESMB and all the wonderful people here :). It really is true though, I gained my PHD in BS analysis here and that will help me in life.:)
 
He said he told the FBI (or who ever) about it. What the hell difference does it make beyond that? You could say it is more negative pr or truth about the real nature of the CofS, and the public needs to know. But I would guess he read it in a doc. Who knows if the docs still exist? If not, it fast becomes a he said, she said situation - or a rumor or an urban legend or if a doc is found, possibly may even may get get to be a fact, actual and provable. The FBI may have gotten the docs in their raid. If he spent 2 months going through the GO files, I'll bet it was shredded. Who in the church would keep evidence like that around? If they do have it, who knows where it is, who is going to go get it? Not the FOI. Maybe a mole. Where's James Bond when you need him?

The issue is as good as dead.

Mimsey
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
That, my friend, No Name, was the most difficult thing for me to believe after I was declared and started reading stuff on the net about Hubbard. The do as I say, not as I do aspect of him, the duplicity, started destroying my faith in him and what he wrote. I still find stuff like the Bill Franks tape which I just listened to, well, not to sound overly dramatic, shocking and yet believable. And then I think of the indi's I know, and how they still believe in his tech, either excuse his lies as exaggerations because that sort of person is that way, or won't brook listening to entheta about him. I am surprised the depth of the hold he has over them.

Wow.

Mimsey

I believe that view is best summed up with the quote, "Show me a motherfucking Clear"

Genuine Tone 40 stuff.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
What I don't understand is this: Why would Ron put this on the D of T's lines? I can find it hard to believe he would say it to the sr. C/S, let alone someone that far down the org board.

Let's say Ron knows it is a con, it always been a con, and therefor what does it depend on? Not letting anybody, especially the tech guys, in on the fact it is a con - if they realize it they will leave, or not do their jobs and, like he says he will lose control.

Lets say Ron believes in Scientology, it's tech, it's purposes etc. and though he knows a lot of results are belief or placebo based, to keep the belief system intact, and to thus "keep Scientology working" likewise, he can't afford to let the tech guys know the truth can he? Again - it falls apart and he loses control.

Let's assume he did tell them, why would he? I'd like to hear your ideas on that.

Mimsey

In the context of the interview, it appears to me that they needed to know this TRUTH in order to solve whatever the problem was they were dealing with at the moment. It is rather amazing how the TRUTH can make what otherwise appear to be complex problems disappear.

And Why would "Ron" say to Hana Eltringham (Now Whitfield) who was Deputy Commodore at the time:

"It's all just hypnosis"


While walking through a passageway?

Why would "Ron" want everything done NOW?

Cause he KNEW someday folks might wake up to the truth and run him out of town? Perhaps like they did in Elizabeth NJ ~50, or Wichita KS in 51, of Phoenix Az ~53 or the UK in ~66, or Corfu in ~68?
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
What I don't understand is this: Why would Ron put this on the D of T's lines? I can find it hard to believe he would say it to the sr. C/S, let alone someone that far down the org board.

Let's say Ron knows it is a con, it always been a con, and therefor what does it depend on? Not letting anybody, especially the tech guys, in on the fact it is a con - if they realize it they will leave, or not do their jobs and, like he says he will lose control.

Lets say Ron believes in Scientology, it's tech, it's purposes etc. and though he knows a lot of results are belief or placebo based, to keep the belief system intact, and to thus "keep Scientology working" likewise, he can't afford to let the tech guys know the truth can he? Again - it falls apart and he loses control.

Let's assume he did tell them, why would he? I'd like to hear your ideas on that.

Mimsey

Bill Franks is a completely different person than Marty Rathburn, worked with Hubbard directly for many many years. He has been living his life ever since the 81-82 take over. He is calm, and has nothing to gain by speaking out.

What he says in the interview matches with several personal experiences I have had in this area. I have no doubt of what he says.

I knew Bill personally, we were not close, but I saw him and knew his work.
I too have no doubt about what he says.
Arnie Lerma
 

Veda

Sponsor
Here's another link to the program:

http://theedgewithtomsmith.com/a/TheEdgeBFranks1.mp3

I just listened to it, and the part about the murder of a MP is only a brief mention, and is vague. It's unknown whether it was a murder disguised as an accident - which would be more Scientological than an upfront guns-blasting homicide.

Be that as it may, this interview is packed with interesting information regarding a variety of areas, and Bill Franks comes across as extremely credible.

Franks mentions that it was L. Ron Hubbard who ran Scientology's Fair Game operations. Briefly discussing Paulette Cooper: "Basically, everything came from Hubbard. He actually ran that day to day."

And as for Hubbard throwing his wife under the bus, which has been known for some time, Bill Franks adds some fascinating detail:

"Hubbard had me and Miscavige and a few others interview Mary Sue... and... we had a van outside that was taping all this. And, basically, it was to get as much incriminating - to get her to incriminate herself as much as possible, and this would be, through a circumlocutious manner, fed to the government."

Tom Smith/Interviewer: "And this was Hubbard's idea?"

Bill Franks: "This was from L. Ron Hubbard to set up his wife. Right."

Some background on Hubbard's "philosophy" regarding his wife:

Late 1966: Hubbard had what appeared to be a nervous breakdown - post Rhodesia. During the post-Rhodesia period, Hubbard rebounded by becoming the Commodore, and by inventing Xenu and OT 3's Incident 2 as the galactic super-engram that "destroyed the sanity of every man, woman and child," etc. This explained why people were laughing when he sat down at the piano... (Only a galaxy-wide super-duper-engram could explain why "wogs" were not awe struck and happily obedient to L. Ron Hubbard's wishes.)

In the chapter 'Launching the Sea Org', in the book 'Bare-Faced Messiah', Virginia Downsborough was interviewed, by author Russell Miller, about her time in Las Palmas with L. Ron Hubbard.

Downsborough was surprised by the large number of bottles of pills that were around Hubbard's bed where he lay moping. She did not report any physical injury. Here's an excerpt:

"He talked a lot about Sara Northrup and seemed to want to make sure that I knew that he had never married her. I didn't know why it was so important to him; I'd never met Sara and couldn't care less, but he wanted to persuade me that the marriage had never taken place. When he talked about his first wife, the picture he put out was of this poor wounded fellow coming home from the war and being abandoned by his wife and family because he would be a drain on them. He said he planned every move along the way with Mary Sue to avoid being victimized again."
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
---snipped---
Franks mentions that it was L. Ron Hubbard who ran Scientology's Fair Game operations. Briefly discussing Paulette Cooper: "Basically, everything came from Hubbard. He actually ran that day to day."

And as for Hubbard throwing his wife under the bus, which has been known for some time, Bill Franks adds some fascinating detail:

"Hubbard had me and Miscavige and a few others interview Mary Sue... and... we had a van outside that was taping all this. And, basically, it was to get as much incriminating - to get her to incriminate herself as much as possible, and this would be, through a circumlocutious manner, fed to the government."

Tom Smith/Interviewer: "And this was Hubbard's idea?"

Bill Franks: "This was from L. Ron Hubbard to set up his wife. Right."


Well, in all fairness, Ron said he was "Mankind's Greatest Friend".

He never claimed anything about Womankind.
 
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