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Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Whattodo, Apr 13, 2017.
So how and when do people forsee the end of the scientology organisation?
It will go the way of the religions of yesteryear. How many people still follow the ancient gods of Egypt, Greece, the Norsemen, the Druids, the Inca, the Aztecs on and on?
I think that Miscavage will die, go crazy, get jailed, leave the country in some manner or other, and some one else will take up the reigns. The place may be raped by law suits, the iRS or it may be intact. It will be taken over by existing SO members who will inherit a mess, or a savvy marketer will take it over, disavow Miscavage et. al. and reverse it's current down trend and make a boat load of money. Eventually it will no longer be in vogue. I may not live to see that day, or I might. It all depends on you, Whattodo, to go out there and help Leah champion her cause. (in case you don't know what to do...)
I think dm's demise, death what ever it might be that means he is no longer head of scientology will be pivotal a moment!
Now I am a bit green but don't they believe OT'S can cure themselves of serious illness? Not that I would wish that on anyone but if he did get poorly and unable to use his ability how might that be deemed?
Scientology has already died. We are simply witnessing a grotesquely elaborate 3 billion dollar funeral.
There is possibly no way of knowing how this will all end. Having said that I think watching Village People videos may offer some inspiration as to:
a) what scientology looks like to 99%+ of the world.
b) some catchy tunes to do the dishes to.
c) costume ideas. Who honestly wants to keep dressing like everyone else!?!
d) my total lack of focus on anything sensible.
I just love a fake navy. :wink2:
. . .
No matter what outcome I'm personally expecting, I'm bracing myself for the long haul so I don't feel too disappointed if the "ending of this novel" fails to satisfy.
I think future Internet historians will mark Oct-Nov 2013 (Super Power / GAT II releases) as the major turning point and "beginning of the end" of the COS. However, I've studied history enough to realize that many movements and schools of thought have a long shelf lives and are unkillable. Some endure for hundreds of years, despite questionable or sketchy delivery on their ultimate promises.
Though Rosicrucianism has zero influence in the world, the main thing you can say about it is it's still around in some form or another after 400 years. Just tossing it up as one example for a look.
Here are some parallels (excerpts indented) from some articles I found.
Will Scientology follow a similar path to Rosicrucianism?
What exactly are Rosicrucians? Their website is extremely vague, saying only that they aren't a religious organization.
Unkillable and kicking around for over 400 years
In 1614 a curious pamphlet entitled the Fama Fraternitatis was published in Cassel, Germany.
The Fama tells the story of one Christian Rosencreutz who, as a young man, wandered through the Near East learning the mystical wisdom of the Arabs and Egyptians and finding much enlightenment there. Upon returning to Germany he attempted to share this knowledge but was laughed at and shunned. He and a few like-minded people formed a society called the Fraternity of the Rose Cross, building a temple called the Spiritus Sanctus.
Like minded membership only
It doesn't explicitly ask people to join, but says the group's members will be watching for those in tune with their thinking.
State of grace
This was followed in 1615 by another purported Rosicrucian publication, the Confessio Fraternitatis, in the same vein as the first but much more apocalyptic. It told not only of a society that had obtained the secrets of enlightenment, but of a forthcoming reformation of the age, returning it a state of grace.
A third document appeared in 1616 entitled The Chemical Wedding of Christian Rosencreutz. This is a highly symbolic treatise following Rosencreutz through a mystical "wedding" that is actually an alchemical allegory. Alchemy is presented not as the physical transformation of base metals into gold, but rather as a spiritual process in which the "base" person is enlightened, turning into spiritual "gold."
Probably the best known group is the Ancient Mystical Order Rosea Crucis, otherwise known as AMORC, which operates a mail-order mystical school out of San Jose, California. It was founded by H. Spencer Lewis, an acquaintance if not an actual associate of the English occultist Aleister Crowley (1875-1947) and an ex-member of his Ordo Templi Orientalis.
Join a group with a purpose
"To participate in a movement" is to understand truly the Rosicrucian tradition.
Who was responsible for the introduction of the scientific methods, freedom of thought, the elements of democracy, the advancement of peace and culture, and many more? The philosophers and mystics, many of whom worked within movements and many within the Order.
This short attempt to show the history and tradition of Rosicrucianism points out the significant role it played in the past, and the bright place the future holds for it. Traditionally and historically, the Rosicrucian movement has always fought for the establishment and perpetuation of freedom – the freedom of mind, spirit, and soul. This website is dedicated to that movement.
Today's Saint Louis Org is very a Rosicrucian-esque, mausoleum-like building.
Really outstanding post!
More parallels to Scientology. . .
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correction, change "go" to "is"
Hm, noice loaded question.
There won't be an end per-se, its like, hmmm, unless everyone on the planet totally renounces Hubbard's barrage of bullshit,~ I do not see this happening anytime soon, however... Awareness has pretty much cut CoS' nuts, people fleeing in droves, and hardly any raw-meat flowing into the Orgs and missions. Due to all the info available a laughing-stock of a cult is open to view. It is dying, but it is a "death of a thousand cuts", and imho will take a lot more squirming and dancing about.
Several years back a few of us Anon-types discussed this very topic, mostly because everyone was all like ' OMG OMG the cult is going down!', which of course wasn't accurate. The core of Ron's confabulation has the resources to continue to exist, even after battling the many, many folks they have fucked over. Land? Yup. Bank account? Oh hell yah. Stupid people who keep on keeping-on? Uh-huh.
Too many tentacles and not enough folks cutting 'em off, cult will not go down without spawning new and wonderful offspring like some virulent virus that it resembles.
Strictly my own opinion. I go nao :run:
The Scientology organization is mainly what it was intended to be as far back as 1938: a monument to L. Ron Hubbard.
"Mental healing"/manipulation/blackmail collection, utilizing slaved labor, and aggressive fund raising and "regging" (hard sell) continue.
However, the primary activity is maintaining the monuments to Hubbard. Some of these are called "Orgs."
As for its longevity, foolishly keep calling it a "religion" and you'll help ensure it'll be around for a very long time.
unknown answer I can give you but I don't think it will last as long as Ilove2lurk research post earlier, reason being the internet and time collapses to instant communication which is what hubbard never realized in his day of marketing & PR known as letters out, magazines sent out from orgs & missions, positioning, etc.
However, from my research I'll give my opinion.
First there was the Dianetics boom, a surprise to Hubbard and Campbell, and they tried to create Hubbard Dianetics Research Foundations, aka HDRF's. Note the word Hubbard.
That didn't work as too many Board of Directors and Hubbard wanted to be the only one.
The next boom was St Hill and creation of the Sea Org (where Hubbard was the only one via KSW 1965 as source of dianetics and scientology).
Next boom was in the 1980/90's with the recreation of Dianetics by marketing executive Jefferson Hawkins (books make booms). That fizzled out due to DM going crazy and then creating the hole and beating people and all those executives blew from the International Headquarters.
It's been on a decline ever since as there has never been a recreation of marketing and PR of dianetics and scientology since Jefferson Hawkins.
After 1980/90's the internet is born, and freer communication via early internet venues are born and come into existence, and ex members speak, as the internet and tech evolves, why we now have blogs and websites for free communication.
More Ex's speak out.
And here we are in the present moment with blogs, websites, tweeter, facebook, books, movies, you tube vids, etc galore talking about dianetics scientology. And even future books to be released by people as well as a tv show,
I'd love for David Miscavige to write a book.
Did I mention that most of the population of earth never heard of dianetic or scientology.
The indie and freezone movement of "the work was free so keep it so" are basing that idea on hubbard's idea of grass roots movement and word of mouth. Fail, as word of mouth is the internet and "no results" is what people will finally realize regardless of the initial hype by hubbard/scientology.
Dianetics and scientology are a marketing effort which is fail.
I think that Miscavige being ousted by one means or other is key. In his prime, LRH, for all his flaws, did a great job identifying the strong points in people and putting them in positions to excel. In that regard he was about as impressive as Ronald Reagan. The only drawback was that it set up a very serious succession crisis.
Miscavige is a micro manager who empowers no one and actually punishes initiative and leadership with the hole. Or worse, in Shelley's case. There's no one in a position to assume leadership. No one. Unless you count Marty or Laurisse (joke).
Hawkins with his DMSMH is a prime example if LRH empowering someone to do a job and letting them succeed. It would be very valuable for you to read his book - especially the part about how he was yanked out of marketing when DM took over.
Additionally: I think the "end" of Scn means the end of the organized Co$. I can envision a future where a bunch of Scn'ists practice auditing outside of any organization, after the organization implodes. But that would fade out one funeral at a time...
Every few years we take out this topic and bat it around. And the cult goes on and on, like the energizer bunny.
Why does it continue? For the same reasons we ourselves got involved. We have issues, the cult promises a cure, we ignored the negatives, and went on hoping. We wanted to believe. And there is always a new crop of young people adrift in the sea of life who want to believe.
As long as there are people with issues and a desire to improve, there will be a cult that sells the "cure".
If parents try to warn them away, all the more reason to get involved. What do parents know anyway?
Also, there are enough millionaires (and one Bob Duggan with $2.9 Billion) that keep it propped up with enough $$$$ to last a long, long time.
Oh, there is one possibility, which I think will never happen, but if it did, would have a profound effect....If Tom Cruise bailed and wrote a Tell-all, or gave a press conference, that would have a huge wake-up impact on a lot of people.
I tend to agree. There are always going to be those with vulnerabilities to the toxic. There are always going to be those that love to throw their money at toxic nonsense to make themselves feel worthy. History tells variations of this story, over and over.
However in the case of the card-board structured thing called scientology, I suspect there is an Achilles heel not yet revealed. Who knows which serious down-pour is going to melt the card-board to a pulpy mash mess. Greater structures than scientology have been brought to their knees in the most unexpected ways.
Co$ has stage iV cancer. Cash is chemo. 20K people is a pitiful pittance. The word is out. The facts keep coming out for all to see. They are doing a fine job of clearing the planet of themselves.
True, but I think what's different now is that people have a lot more options than they did in LRH's day. Back when I was growing up in the 1970s, pretty much the only books in the spiritual section of my local library were LRH's books (donated by my local org) and several by Vernon Howard, a couple of meditation books such as "Tranquillity without pills" (about TM), and a smattering of other books by authors such as Joel Goldsmith and Murdo Macdonald Bayne. There was no internet (as there is now) by which people could track down philosophies, therapies and teachers which might interest them.
It will shrink, but not entirely go away. The most fanatical will refuse to admit that they were duped.
Look at the Jehovah's witnesses. More than once they predicted the end of the world as we know it, and them being the only ones to survive. When it didn't come true, they lost lots of members, of course. But, many stayed anyway!
I mean, it's hard to screw up more than that; telling people to quit their jobs, sell everything and get ready for paradise, and then nothing happens? And yet, the fanatics just justified it somehow, and went on. More than once.
If you had a video of Hubbard himself saying he lied, that the stuff doesn't always work, that he was mainly interested in money and power, it still wouldn't sway some of them. They would either refuse to look at it, or claim it was somehow fake.
Actually, there are still people who 'follow' these religions. Ironically enough, the Egyptian pantheon is used by the Thelemists, which is the philosophy promoted by Crowley, and perpetuated by his followers even today.
The word is that ever since the Harry Potter craze, the occult schools have experienced a resurgence of interest. The Wicca organizations can't keep up with demand, I've heard.