The ETHICs CONDITIONs- for they WORK or are they HOGWASH ?

Discussion in 'Scientology Technology' started by Gizmo, Jul 7, 2015.

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  1. Gizmo

    Gizmo Rabble Rouser

    When I listened about the "ethics conditions' while I was in the cult they were touted as the be all, end all, do all, fix anything remedy for any no optimum situation or even how to better a good situation.

    Even here on ESMB I see some people posts the wonderment of Hubbards ethics tech even after they claim to claim to have left etc etc barfola justifications of the rightness of THAT tech.

    So, I got to thinking about it. I saw one hell of a lot of people cycle through scientology like it was a revolving door. OTs leaving. Highly classed auditors leaving.
    Long time high ranking SO members leaving. Long time gung ho public contributing serious amounts of cash. Celebs. Regular people. All Leaving !

    Now with the ethics conditions applied - working as they do - how could anyone leave scientology ?
    Some will claim well the person didn't apply the conditions correctly because they didn't properly word clear, demo, clay demo,( & whatever else could be done ) the materials.

    But what about the well trained MAA / EO / who ever else was well trained, interned & approved those conditions ?
    How about all of the people who signed off on the conditions ?

    It seems to remain that over the course of the cult more people - long term - have left than stayed. There are more X cult members than cult members & they had the ethics conditions to fix everything right there at their finger tips ?

    Let's go to the world a t large. How come scientologists don't run the world ? They have the ethics tech. All they have to do is get a job & move right on up, uh, remember "can run an org from any post"?

    So where is this application out in the real world where the cult could now after 60+ years be running every business, every industry, every instution, every government & it can even run itself in it's very own Hubbard created "tech "

    Is it time to call BULL SHIT on ethics tech. too ?

    Why ? Because it has not been demonstrated to 'work' even when diligently applied.

    That's my opinion - LOL !
     
  2. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    If I had honestly done the lower conditions I would have walked out the first time I did doubt, and every time after that.
     
  3. Mike Laws

    Mike Laws Patron Meritorious

    LOL, I am going to give a very politically incorrect response to this. I believe much of the conditions are designed as a control mechanism, especially the lowers. But saying that, some of the conditions have points that might be useful to a person in creating a thought and priority structures in moving through circumstances. Affluence, for example, to me can be useful. Pay off all bills, hide the cash, don't change your life style, keep doing and reinforce what made you money. Emergency, promoting producing is valid.

    I think writing up formulas and getting instant change is a mental circle jerk. Using some of them as a thought process can be valid. That being said, I used them last probably 10 years ago while I was going through my major ex transition.

    Anything is what you make of it, the intention you apply to it!
     
  4. SPsince83

    SPsince83 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Try to get true statistics from the czerch to actually do an honest doubt formula. Nobody would ever come back.
     
  5. Gizmo

    Gizmo Rabble Rouser

    Well, to me, nothing expresses more about a person who can say " Well, I did ( blah, blah ) & I made it work for me" !

    Why ? It is a testament to the high personal ( I'd say spiritual but that'd get us going THAT road ) level that person has.

    Hey, I admire you ! I'd like to know you ! I'd damn sure hire you !

    <><><><>

    A long held belief I have is what someone else once said : " 85 % of ANY system working is the belief a person brings into it ".

    So, can prayer to God work ? Can Voodoo work ? Can a Witch Doctor work ? Can praying to a yellow fire plug work ? And, so-help-me-Hanna can scientology work ?

    OH HELL YES ! And it is the strength of BELIEF we brought into it & not what which methodology we are using !

    Now, I also happen to believe ( something else I heard from someone I respect " A belief is merely a thought we keep on thinking "

    That one took awhile to sink in on me.

    So, sometimes our own strength & ability we attribute to something outside ourself.

    [ And, my opinion, we'd all be better off if we'd start looking at we all have within ourself all we'll ever need, we just need to us it to pursue the joy of our life. ]
    There really are some things that only work but we can make work even better - and while I'm NOT discounting the personal ability of any person nor am I willing to attribute overall workability to what is prinmarily BULLSHIT designed ( as was correctly pointed out ) to control individuals.

    <><><>

    Is there some 'truth' here & there in the tech ? Yeah - maybe some of the upper conditions ( as mentioned ) make sense although better expressions are to be found elsewhere.

    It remains, in my honest opinion, the scientology lower ethics conditions can be the direct cause of causing a person years of a needless mess that is very hard to unravel without professional help.

    Thus, I'm happy trying to convince newbies to STF away from 'em.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2015
  6. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Such a beast was a rara avis.

    Ethics tech was IMO the least understood area of Scn. Most in my org thought ethics =
    punishment. Sadly that was usually the case. And this was an org that had really
    good tech people including one named as one of the 3 best auditors in CO$.

    The conditions can be useful in increasing productivity. If thats what you
    wish for.

    I was put on post as cope off holding E/O from above. I liked this tech and did my best to
    understand it and apply it. I had some successes. Always tried to help people survive better.

    Fortunately I could study quite well and so trained myself.

    For many years I thought I was a poor E/O. However coming to the net I realised
    I'd never fucked anyone over.

    I struggled with understanding lower conditions. Having conversations with Mary Freeman
    I understand better.

    She uses them only for first dynamic. Been posting her successes for maybe a decade.

    They are in fact the most enthusiastic and revelatory successes I've posted in general.

    They are more akin to auditing wins.

    She likes to look at lower conditions as something that some might need to handle.

    What do you do or think that is an enemy or worse of your own life and aspirations?

    Of course in a non judgemental manner.

    The answers are the clients of course.

    Can lead to wonderful therapeutic resolutions :)
     
  7. Maria Cuervo

    Maria Cuervo Gold Meritorious Patron

    Luckily since I am not in CoS I can't be forced to do ugly things anymore like "conditions"
    and I can avoid whoever wants to impose such ugly things on my brain.

    :flowers:
     
  8. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Yup. I'm pretty much of the same mind.

    A hammer is a tool that may also be used as a weapon.

    In my experience, certain things in the Conditions Formulas work but only when used as a tool where that use results in doing something about it. Hubbard should have left well enough alone sometime around "The Five Conditions".
     
  9. Maria Cuervo

    Maria Cuervo Gold Meritorious Patron

    The conditions are for bodies.
     
  10. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Nope. That's just your way of looking at it. They were originally aimed at improving "existence". Like everything in scientology, it's what you do with it that determines the outcome.
     
  11. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    I use hair conditioner.
     
  12. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    I don't. :hysterical:
     
  13. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    Yeah, exactly.

    But, come to think of it, Dr. Hubbard could have stopped even sooner, by issuing "The Three Conditions". That would have been so much simpler because all Scientololgists are in one of those conditions:

    Condition of HOPE: Assigned when a new Scientologist has just read or heard about the scientific breakthroughs made by a "Doctor and Nuclear Physicist" resulting in the supernatural state of Clear. They now have "HOPE" that they too can rise above the state of homo sapiens like Dr. Hubbard.

    Condition of MAYBE: Assigned when a Scientologist didn't get any of the abilities promised from going Clear--but they still feel that MAYBE they will achieve all that plus much, much more on Dr. Hubbard's OT levels.

    Condition of WHATEVER: Assigned when a Scientologist failed to get any of the godlike powers of exteriorization, healing, levitation, postulates and immortality--but they are sufficiently disoriented enough to still remain in the cult in order to focus on acquiring more certificates (for redoing previous levels) and be honored with impressive sounding statuses for donating money to save the planet by remodeling buildings.
     
  14. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Lol, I'm happy to be your straight-man. :)
     
  15. Maria Cuervo

    Maria Cuervo Gold Meritorious Patron

    Does coconut oil count as hair conditioner?
     
  16. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    Not if you use it the way I do.
     
  17. SPsince83

    SPsince83 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Bad kitty. Me likee.:devil:
     
  18. Billy Blinder

    Billy Blinder Patron with Honors

    I'm still befuddled why in the book Dianetics, one could go "clear" in a few hundred hours?

    I was willing to get auditing, and pay for it, and to go "Clear"

    No mention of "Ethics" in Dianetics.
     
  19. In my experience, the ethics formulas are the perfect example of the tautology of Scientology.

    If things improved, they work.

    If things don't improve, you didn't apply them correctly.

    The ethics formulas reinforced the self-deceptive thinking that abounds in Scientology.

    The Anabaptist Jacques
     
  20. B4You

    B4You Patron

    LRH was a condition of it´s own. We all saw that.

    From that moment a Homo Sapiens read his thoughts, he is in state of Confusion - thinking he will become Homo Novus by reading a book.

    Don´t kill yourself on the lower conditions, just snap out of it. It doesn't work the way as he says. Ethics in SCN is a perverted way of justice. How many times haven´t you been wondering; How can that man be upstat and at the same time commits horrendous crimes against other humans?

    I have seen an entire Org, get collectively assigned a Condition of Treason, for not clapping at LRH on the right timing. When things don´t go as "postulated" you need a scapegoat and begin assigning conditions all over the place so you can be right.

    What you have experienced in the Cult is a diabolic case of Social-Darwinism.

    So! "they" don´t like the weak and you where treated like the weak and you left like the rest. The weak and the lazy are inside the Cult, not outside. Those people don´t produce anything. They don´t make any difference. They are the SNOBS that you been hating all along. You on the other hand are the Real thing!

    Scientology is Subjective, and the problems starts when you mix (or confuse) that with Objective - Like making an ashtray levitate, just thinking it will.

    STOP USING LRH, clear you mind and thoughts from any combinations of letters and numbers this man ever produced in your head. You don´t need to be evaluated by stupid people, you don´t need a licence to live and you for sure, don´t ever, need there approval.