The ETHICs CONDITIONs- for they WORK or are they HOGWASH ?

Discussion in 'Scientology Technology' started by Gizmo, Jul 7, 2015.

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  1. Ted

    Ted Gold Meritorious Patron


    Right on, JustSheila!

    All too often the pc is just a wimp who gets pushed around by whomever or whatever. The named "SP" is just someone who is stronger but not necessarily ill intentioned.

    Ted
     
  2. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon


    If you were "ethics tek" trained then you would know that doing a 10 Aug of any description in Reception or wherever is an "off lines" action, and would be seen by any tek person to be an ethics offense.
    No wonder that they stopped you.
    Such things are said to mess up a PCs case so that the Auditor or C/S doesn't know what has been done, what was left undone, was the SP found, etc etc. Not only that, but more important to the rest of the Org, is that doing shit like that 'off-lines' doesn't bring GI into the Org. $$$$$$
    It would sound to others as tho you were ego tripping in Reception ( or wherever it was that you did it).
    Ever think of the rest of Staff?
     
  3. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    At the time I'd been on post for a short time. London Org despite being relatively
    well staffed had just about no one outside qual who knew much if anything
    about ethics. I observed they usually thought that "ethics" meant punishment. I had
    no idea that doing this in reception was incorrect. No one thought to correct me on this
    or hat me on this. Note that I posted that I had to train myself. This by the way was
    before the ethics specialist course came out. LRH stated in the HCOB

    "And, as you are not really auditing him and he isn’t going backtrack and you are not
    trying to do more than key him out, you don’t probe any further."

    In earlier times a whole class at St Hill would be auditing where anyone could hear them
    and I've read stories where one pair raised something and it was repeated with
    variations around the academy.

    The GO stopped me because they thought the husband would sue the org. The husband
    never came to the org so couldn't have been offended by whatever I did or didn't do.
    They didn't take any action against me or say anything I did was wrong. Nor did anyone else.

    The attitude in orgs is put someone on post and leave them there if they do OK
    replace them if they don't. Note this wasn't done off lines. She was routed to me. I wasn't
    replaced or given cramming or ethics or anything in this instance. Thrown in the deep end
    I did my best and made this piece of tech work.
     
  4. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    A 10 Aug. was my first introduction to PTS, SP's, and the whole subject of Scn "ethics."

    It was while I was on either the Comm Course or HQS Course, first two courses I did. I came in one day with a slight cold and got sent to see the E/O. He had me read the bulletin and maybe clear a few words. (Did he M4 me on it? I don't remember.) Then he asked me if I was connected to anyone who was giving me a hard time, etc. ...

    I honestly couldn't come up with anyone. I'd been outspoken about my involvement in scn -- I was still in the honeymoon phase; I was having wins; as far as I knew at that time, it was all good -- but no one had given me a hard time about it. (This was in 1975 and many people had never even heard of it.)

    The E/O let it go at that. He pretty much just said, "Okay, just something to think about. If anyone comes to mind, let me know," and let me go back on course.

    If I'd been willing to look deeper, I probably would have come up with my parents. OF COURSE my parents had suppressed and invalidated me -- whose parents haven't done that at some time? But at the time I didn't want to look at that.

    Oddly enough, my parents never objected to my involvement in scn, though they had absolutely no interest in getting involved themselves. (I tried to interest them, of course.) This always puzzled me. It's only recently, 40 years later, that I realized they were probably happy I wasn't doing drugs anymore and was at least making an attempt to talk to them coherently.

    Before someone jumps on me for suggesting that scn might have had a beneficial effect here, let me say that I think that the vast majority of ethics handlings and ethics conditions are complete and utter bullshit. I do think that there are "suppressives" and that one can be "pts" to them, but CoS grossly misapplies the idea by labeling anyone who opposes scn an SP. CoS itself is incredibly suppressive and hypocritical. This wasn't so easy to see when I was in, but now, god it's obvious.
     
  5. wigee1

    wigee1 Patron with Honors

    I used to use Ethics super lightly , much to the disgust of HCO and did well out of them, The time I thought of really applying them after my stats where down, Estates Manager stat = the number of useable spaces m2 sort of thing, well I ended up in HCO stuck on DOUBT, after about 3xweeks , Phyll Stevens) (ED) marches in to HCO to do her usual scream and rant, at Peter Mansell, Les miller, ( those poor guys always got it,) Well she spins around and spots me in the naughty corner , says to the Hench men What's he doing here?, goes nuts , and tells me to get back on post , then glares at me , and says Don't you play that trick with me!, as I happily wander off.
    One can't send me to the RPF, I am the RPF , and the last thing they don't me on is, training , what make me more able.!
    I certainly was playing my own game in those days, actually , still.
    Granitt.
     
  6. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Lol, Phyll could glare, scream and rant like the best of 'em.
    Mansell is OSA at Flag Land Base these days and Les is out, as far as I know.
     
  7. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    O Terrill, I was just "having you on".
    My BTs made me do it.
     
  8. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Your BTs and mine should have dinner sometime. :)
     
  9. Gizmo

    Gizmo Rabble Rouser

    Well there are opinions to the contrary, my opinion is the ethics conditions as part of the whole of ethics in scientology not only hurt & damaged more people IN that group, but, it by all apparent evidence the major reason that drove most people away from that group.

    I think my opinion as expressed in this post would be extremely hard to refute as ' the way it was'.

    And I'll accept every now & then somebody got / gave a miracle with some piece or other ( or some combo thereof ) from scn tech just like the exact same kind of miracle happened from a placebo, Voodoo, Christianity, Yoga, praying to a yellow fireplug in the moonlight or whatever else one cares to attribute it to.

    But routine, reproducible, verifiable, positive results from scientology in any way shape or form are just not in evidence, period.

    The above post was written by a bitter apostate SP who apparently spent many years gathering MU's as a fully hatted ethics officer :biggrin: :thumbsup:

    :dancer::roflmao::buzzin::hysterical::dance3::woohoo::dance2::dancer::roflmao::buzzin::hysterical::dance3::woohoo::dance2:
    :dancer::roflmao::buzzin::hysterical::dance3::woohoo::dance2::dancer::roflmao::buzzin::hysterical::dance3::woohoo::dance2:
    :dancer::roflmao::buzzin::hysterical::dance3::woohoo::dance2::dancer::roflmao::buzzin::hysterical::dance3::woohoo::dance2:
    :dancer::roflmao::buzzin::hysterical::dance3::woohoo::dance2::dancer::roflmao::buzzin::hysterical::dance3::woohoo::dance2:
     
  10. SPsince83

    SPsince83 Gold Meritorious Patron

    :goodposting:



    As one who gathered a similar number of mus as a fully hatted Qual Sec, I must concur.
     
  11. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    O Fun!
    I have a team of BTs, lead by Master Chef, who calls himself " Unusual Solutions", and they will cook for your BTs.
    Crab Cakes are a fav, but you can name your choice of delectable foodstuff and it will be forthcoming.
    Dinner will be accompanied by BT " Chamber Music".
     
  12. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    Crab Cakes ???? Yum yum :coolwink:

    I look forward to have a delicious encounter of the third kind , with your BT's team and master chef,
    One day????

    :yes:


    It's like clams chowder cooking crab cakes for squirrels :biggrin:
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2015
  13. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    Come when you can, Babygirl.
    That's an "open invitation".
    Anytime.
    I'll pick you up at the Airport, and bring you home with me.