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  1. as i make highly controversial statements on this board such as "i am an auditor" and "auditing and auditor training are good things" i often provoke high dudgeon from other posters as i did recently on the greg bashaw thread. a fellow went off into an impassioned organ recital about ms mcpherson.

    all right, yes terribly tragic and wrongful death, yes yes i have certainly examined the medical examiner's photos with the extensive insect bites and the wrist and ankle bruises indicating physical restraint. and so on. and certainly a poster child is part of the standard tech of a protest movement, lisa is an archetypically apropos figure for the role and there is apparently no objection from her family

    however CoS is a "respondent before the bar" and due process of law has had exceptionally full play in the case and been completed. case closed and neither CoS nor any SIGS need explain justify discuss respond etc in the matter. case closed.

    but it can be advanced that there is a live issue in the case. not a legal issue but a matter of interest and concern about a frequent action which occurs in CoS and can and should be addressed

    as it happens three or four years ago i stumbled across a case of a CoS wrongful death here in boston in 1975 which received no attention whatsoever, was quickly buried and CoS just treated the decedent's family like shit. i have posted a brief account of the incident on the greg bashaw thread and it too involves the same familiar act by CoS


    a clearly definable issue can be raised.

    can any of the bright lights on this board delineate such an issue?
  2. GoNuclear

    GoNuclear Gold Meritorious Patron

    The Cof$ settled the case, true enough, and, legally speaking, that was the end of it. Also, the criminal case was dismissed prior to the settlement. Regardless, the Cof$ never dealt with the plaintiff's party in good faith, they were abusive as hell all the way.

    They destroyed evidence, they used PI's and perhaps OSAbots to harrass plaintiff attrorneys and family of the decedent. They used every possible tactic to brow beat the coroner's office into changing their testimony so as to avoid being found guilty of what should have been an obvious slam dunk criminal negligence case. They dragged the civil case on for years, until the case was by and large out of the public eye. When they finally settled, they, of course, insisted upon a gag order as per their usual.

    Here in Missouri, in the greater St. Louis area and for that matter all through out the state, is a corporate run, gas station chain called Quik Trip. If there was a wrongful death claim against them at one of their gas station/convenience stores due to, say, a slip and fall or perhaps some random mishap at a gas pump or some such thing, where fault was obvious ... they would have immediately gone out of their way to settle it pronto and avoid a nasty court battle, etc. On the one occaision where coffee was spilled on me and it was their fault ... not a scalding, nothing serious, just a slight inconvenience and a slight stain on a wash and wear raincoat ... they were all sorts of apologetic, offered to get me a voucher for a dry cleaner, and, to top it off, my morning coffee there was free for the next month. Let's face it ... had it been the Cof$, it would have been all about "you pulled it in" and "how dare you make one of our people wrong for spilling coffee on you" etc. If I presented them with a dry cleaning bill, the response would have been, at best, a non enturbulation order ... because, of course, they are never ever wrong, and, it is YOU who is the one with the service facsimile. So, once again, fuck the Cof$.

    Meanwhile, since you brought up Lisa McPherson, I will repost a song parody I did about that incident. BTW, in case you didn't know ... DM insisted on being C/S on her case prior to her demise.


    Ooops ... I just realized ... I am not on my usual computer where my library of parodies is stored. I will try to get that posted later today.
  3. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    the Cult of Scientology has slapped lady justice in the face more than once.

    I long for the day of reckoning, I think it is coming soon.
  4. thank you very very much for bringing up joan wood the medical examiner. this is a most overlooked aspect of the case. she changed her decision on the cause of death and retired in her fifties soon thereafter withdrew, displayed (ay least reportedly and the reports appear credible) significant personality change, refused to speak of the case and died young. while these are considered symptomatic of "browbeating" i do not know of any actual report of abuse which would surely attract attention of federal authorities. indeed medical examiner's are the least corrupt part of the entire justice system in most jurisdictions. do you have some facts? not hearsay, facts.

    i thought DM did try to get a quick out of court settlement offering $5M. and that the plantiffs were as much if not more responsible for making the case drag on.
  5. NoName

    NoName A Girl Has No Name

    Um, why dontcha word clear "witness tampering". Janet Reitman's book had some pretty good evidence that is what happened.
  6. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Commander Birdsong, can you give the details of this case that you stumbled upon? :

    I don't recall this case. It would be most important to have the details documented on the internet. Any info is appreciated , even just the name of the decedent. Thank you.

  7. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Banned

    By tracking referring pages to Lermanet, almost two decades ago now, I noted this page The Pathology Guy who had this entry on his index page...

    "- the death of Lisa McPherson. A few hours after this article was published, I received a phone call from St. Petersberg, by a man who stated that he was NOT officially representing the Church of Scientology, but was friendly to them. His exact words were, "You can name your price." I told him, as politely as I could, to go to hell. I heard no more, and wondered whether this was actually a church representative who wanted me to switch sides, somebody trying to trap me, a loose cannon, or an elaborate prank."


    I also recieved an anonymous email, (now long lost) that named a law firm (I dont recall the name and it was not one of the ones I knew of as being agents of scientology) in DC and stated that lawfirm had recieved 25 million dollars to destroy the reputation of Dr Joan Woods.


    I also showed the strip chart image of Lisa McPherson's electrocardiogram to my doctor in McLean Va, and said, tell me what you see.. He looked at it and said instantly something like "Long QT", I said whats that mean? He said it was an old person.. I said it was a young gal, he said hmm, then she was on drugs, I said, what drug elongates the QT segment? I said, PCP? (angeldust, elephant tranqualizer) he said "PCP would do it", , -PCP also makes people feel very hot.. so they want to take their clothes off, (cite) - just as Lisa did after that minor traffic accident...

    This is a drawing my doctor made during that conversation LINK


    I spoke to a person, who refused to be identified, calling from a payphone in clearwater, who claimed that the reason the last three days of Lisa's 'baby watch' records were lost were because she had given a security guard a black eye.. because of this she had been forced into a large footlocker, and this person saw the footlocker being carried away from room 174..(3 days before she 'died') (with lisa stuffed in it)..

    ---------- there is more stuff in the McPherson threads on chatboards.

    arnie lerma
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  8. GoNuclear

    GoNuclear Gold Meritorious Patron

    WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If any of that stuff is true, her case is far, far, far worse than I imagined. What I would like to know, tho, is why DM decided he needed to C/S her case.

    Anyways, here I am, back again, this time on the right computer, and, as promised, below you will find the song parody.


    Lisa McPherson
    (Tune of Eleanor Rigby, apologies to Lennon and McCartney)

    I pity all those brainwashed people!
    I pity all those brainwashed people!

    Lisa McPherson, picks up the cans in a “church” that is robbing her blind,
    Losing her mind.
    Waits for the qual guy, puts on the face that she uses to pass an exam,
    Soul in a jam!

    All those poor, duped people,
    Why are they so misled?
    All those poor, duped people,
    Their fortunes all dry-bled!

    David Miscavige decided that he would C/S the McPherson case,
    What a mistake.
    Look at him writing, words that would order her locked up seventeen days there,
    What did he care?

    All those poor, duped people,
    Why are they so misled?
    All those poor, duped people,
    Their fortunes all dry bled!

    I pity all those brainwashed people!
    I pity all those brainwashed people!

    Lisa McPherson died in a “church” that then tried to bury her name,
    A shit-storm came.
    Chairman Miscavige, wiping the blood from his hands as he ignores her grave,
    “Tough break, huh, Dave?”

    All those poor, duped people,
    Why are they so misled?
    All those poor, duped people,
    Their fortunes all dry-bled!
  9. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Banned

    Lermetics can help you with that.

    There was something lisa knew, that she had 'ethical problems with'.. that started all of this. The outfit she worked for - I think it was Bennita Slaughter's outfit, during the trial some big shot was asked what (damn the name escapes me, the name of the company) the outfit did, and the answer was "We sell forms to insurance companies"

    Well... Google Allstate Insurance + scientology. Was a HUGE flap. I spoke with a lawyer who worked for the Allstate employee union whom I shall quote as it was memorable:

    "scientology almost brought down Allstate"

    Now, if Lisa's company was selling Hubbard's rubbish to Insurance companies, the operation would have been structured so that in NO WAY COULD IT EVER BE LINKED TO SCIENTOLOGY, re read OSA's Operations Planning

    and I quote:

    All Ops are planned in such a way that they in no way
    could be traced back to the Church.

    However, Hubbard or whomever owns his copyrights - (Note any current book by the fraud of scientology, the copyright notice states (c) HELD by RTC...

    Held, not OWNED, but held...!! Author Services or CST OWNS the copyrights, RTC is just the agent enforcing their "rights"

    So they could not write a check for royalties...that would leave a paper trail and risk another Allstate media fracas... but they might pay their employees additional sums and demand they donated them to the "church"... Lisa made 60K a year... after she died, this "church" wrote checks (forging her signature) on her account to get the last of her money.. I recall someone asking why and some guy said 'cause it was our money" See this story: Vampires of Scientology

    And Ill quote from that link above:

    "VOICE (sounds like Ken Dandar):
    Did you ever write any checks out of Lisa McPherson's checking account?

    On the advice of counsel, and relying on my fifth amendment privelege
    against self-incrimination, I respectfully decline to answer.

    [Dandar on camera, in an office]

    There are checks written to Gloria Cruz, while Lisa McPherson is in
    isolation near death. And there are checks written to Lisa McPherson and
    SIGNED by Lisa McPherson after she's dead.

    [shots of the Ft. Harrison, and copies of checks, brief cut to the
    deposition, more check copies, and a pic or two of Lisa]

    28 Investigates has learned, that on the day before Lisa died, while she was
    in the Ft. Harrison Hotel, somehow, a deposit of $1600 was made into Lisa's
    account with Lisa's signature. Lisa died December 5. But on the day after
    she died, Lisa's boyfriend, Kurt Paine, wrote a check on Lisa's account to
    Gloria Cruz for $2500.

    After Lisa had been dead 8 days, another deposit was made to her account,
    again bearing her name. That same day, Gloria Cruz wrote a check to Lisa
    for $2500, but again, Lisa had been dead for 8 days, and Gloria knew it.

    Then, 10 days after Lisa's death, Kurt Paine signed another check to another
    Scientologist, for more than $2000.

    [back to the deposition]

    Do know if Kurt Paine ever wrote any checks out of Lisa McPherson's
    checking account?

    On the advice of counsel, and relying on my fifth amendment privelege
    against self-incrimination, I respectfully decline to answer."


    Time expired for editing, this belongs to my previous post: "After a minor traffic accident, McPherson stripped off her clothes and walked naked down well-traveled Belleview Boulevard. She told stunned paramedics she wasn't crazy but just wanted to get their attention: "I need help. I need to talk to someone." She spoke in a monotone, as if programmed, and said she didn't need a body to live." Richard Leiby, Washington Post
  10. GoNuclear

    GoNuclear Gold Meritorious Patron

    Are you saying that DM C/S'd Lisa McPherson's case for the express purpose of driving her nuts and having her die, because she knew too much? Or are you saying that DM was C/Sing her case to keep an eye on her? He could have kept an eye on her just by looking at her folders without havng to C/S her case. And if he wanted her permanently silenced, a simple rub-out made to appear as, say, a purse snatching gone wrong would have kept things a whole lot more simple. If anything, Lisa McPherson could have been a Scientological poster gal for "a world without crime" and therefore a fund raising cause. Paying the "mugger" would have cost at most 100k for a top notch professional job. The way it went had to have been far, far, far more expensive.

  11. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Banned

    also re insect bites...

    They were characterized as "roach feeding sites"

    "Dr. Goff would expect insect infestation to have
    roaches feeding on a body, similar to other crime scenes he has
    investigated. If FLAG is telling the truth that there was no insect
    infestation at the hotel, then this simply proves the Estate's argument
    that Lisa was never in the hotel in the first place" LINK

    which backs up the claim she was moved in that crate 3 days before she died, which also would explain why the last three days of her baby watch records were "lost" as this fraud of a church perjured in court...


    "All of the Estate’s pathologists have further opined that Lisa did have
    bug bites on her body, antemortem and peri-mortem. Dr. Spitz has
    documented insect feeding sites on two autopsy microscopic slides.
    Appendix A5, at pp. 20-27, 73-74. The scientific evidence of the post mortem photographs of Lisa’s body show 109 different cockroach feeding sites, mostly antemortem, per the board certified entomologist retained by the Estate, Neil Haskell, Ph.D. See attached excerpts from his deposition, Appendix 6, at pp. 238-239, and his diagram of feeding sites, Appendix 7, with special emphasis on the facial autopsy photograph. Appendix 8. This is in direct conflict with the affidavits and depositions of staff filed by Defendants." LINK (link strangely gives blank page but select View Source, and text is there..)

    Antemortem means they were feeding upon her body while she was still alive..
  12. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Banned

    Yes but not nearly as sadistic. Sociopaths take pleasure in causing misery to others, especially when it protects their income.

    I've outlined a scenario that Homicide Detectives look for, in the case of a suspicious death, called MMO, which are required before going for a 1st degree murder charge, which is a capital crime and has no statute of limitations. MMO is short for:

    Motive, Method and Opportunity

    My previous postings provide all three, without even stretching the imagination when compared to the facts in the court records.
  13. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Banned

    Errata: correction to a prior post where I said Lisa was paid 60K a year:
    Lisa was in fact being paid 100,000 a year, see the Leiby Post article link

    Additional background: when I was in the cult, I was an FBO, for Pubs Org at ASHO in LA, I set the US print runs at Anderson Ritchie and Simon, the printers in Glendale. Asho Publications US later became Bridge Publications.

    I used to calculate the royalty amounts and write checks payable to L. Ron Hubbard, (we published all the books) which would clear through a banking cartel in Luxembourge, called "Societe' Anonyme" which appeared stamped on the back of the checks I'd get back from the Sumitomo Bank, on Grand Street, Account #11066-4 and 11066-8, Back in 1972 I was the one who wrote and signed those checks, sending to "Ron" over a $100,000 - adjusted for inflation, that would be...over a half a million dollars in 2011 dollars.

    Here is a picture of me at that time in my FBO Pubs Office at ASHO with a bunch of E-meters.


    see Inflation Calculator

    And I recall vividly just how important that royalty money was, so if those "insurance forms" being SOLD to big insurance companies were based upon Hubbard's rubbish and (c) Author Services or CST at THAT time in 1995... they would be make damn sure that those royalties had a way to be paid.. even if it caused the occassional young gal (getting 100K a year) to have 'ethical questions' about the method being used, which, I posit, when she pursued them, directly resulted in her death. And Author Services/CST is the alter ego of David Miscavige.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  14. GoNuclear

    GoNuclear Gold Meritorious Patron

    If the entire thing was planned, including playing with her head for sadistic purposes ... why bother with trying to take her to a hospital? Why not drive a bit further south and feed her to the alligators in the Everglades swamp?

  15. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Banned

    Perhaps the "Asthmatic dwarf"(note) thought he had the perfect plan? (after all they did get away with it....)
    From Operations planning

    "A believable (story) source must be provided in an operation, thereby
    "filling the vacuum," so that Scientology isn't dubbed in as source"

    Note: I believe the phrase "Asthmatic Dwarf" is (c) Suzette Hubbard, you see when Little davie was first in the CMO, Suzette was the CMO I/C, and David, the new kid, had asthma, and used to hide his use of an inhaler by leaning over the side of the ship to hide its use. The phrase, i believe was coined by Suzette Hubbard.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  16. Magoo

    Magoo Gold Meritorious Patron

    God I wish Marty would spit out what those last 3 days were about. You KNOW they had to be *horrific* that they shredded them.

    My THEORY----based on experience--is that No way was Lisa ever in the Cabanas at the back of Flag. Those are super expensive and no way would
    they put s/one "Type 3" near big $$$. We stayed in the same Cabana they said she stayed in. It's about 15 feet from the HGC!

    Also, they were spick and span---no way would she have those cock roach bites THERE. However, one staff member took me out to the Family/Staff berthing back then and it was out on US 19...this sleazy motel, away from everything.
    She said they did have "lots of cockroaches" there.

    So I think (My theory) is that she DIED out at that Motel...........they
    zoomed her to "Flag"...and from there, rushed her out to the Scientology
    Doctor and "She died on the way". :bs: I say.

    Lots to mull over.........May she R.I.P. :rose:

  17. Birdy, I looked for this..."a case of a CoS wrongful death here in boston in 1975 which received no attention whatsoever, was quickly buried and CoS just treated the decedent's family like shit."

    Can you either elaborate on it or link to your post? Thanks! :)
  18. GoNuclear

    GoNuclear Gold Meritorious Patron

    As a plan, it would have been too complicated, too costly. I doubt that it was planned the way it went down. Perhaps the objective was simply to discredit her via a gaslighting campaign. The plan may have morphed into a first degree murder, but, I doubt that it was planned that way from the start. The Lisa McPherson case, from the standpoint of the Cof$, was not about something well planned. It was about a comedy of errors and phuggups, one compounded on top of the next, followed by a massive and very expensive damage control effort.

  19. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    Could you be confusing Las Vegas for Boston? I don't recall any fuss over a Scio's death in 1975 anywhere in Massachusetts. Maybe you're thinking of Louie Pagliaro?

    "Louie Pagliaro was a public person taking courses at the Las Vegas Org in 1974. He was a casino pit boss and a professional photographer. He completed his grades and then went on to AOLA to take OT I, OT II and OTIII.

    In 1975, he returned to Las Vegas and, thinking he was “OT”, lost a lot of his money gambling. Furious at being conned, he came screaming into the Org and demanded a refund for all of the money he had paid, over $100,000, from Eddie Walters, his Case Supervisor at the Las Vegas Org.

    He threatened Eddie Walters that if he did not get a refund he was going to expose the OT Levels.

    The next day his body was found badly mutilated in his living room. According to his live-in girlfriend, Lisa Gibson, all of his folders were pulled from the Org by the Guardian’s Office and during the police investigation Eddie Walters lied to the police and pretended that Louie Pagliaro had never taken any courses at the Las Vegas Org.

    His death is an unsolved murder and can be found on the books of the Las Vegas Police Department for the year 1975. Lisa Gibson thereafter married David Sandweiss, who may or who may not have been Quentin Hubbard’s homosexual lover, and who was also murdered two years later."
  20. Magoo

    Magoo Gold Meritorious Patron

    I agree with you on that, Pete. One of my friends used
    to work in "B1" ((the cats who did the heavy shit in the GO) and I
    asked him:"what about Lisa McPherson?"

    His answer: "Somebody fucked up"

    Very true. However, how they handled the fuck ups, was/is
    truly criminal, imnsho.

    Tick Tock....................Time shall tell :)


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