What's new

Trolling for Business on ESMB

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
A show of hands!!

How many groups are here looking for new students and pcs?

I see Idenics and Knowledgism, "Ron's Org|" people and "Freezoners".

Any others?

Who's willing to publish their price lists for the Ex-Scientologists who have come here to ESMB?

Who's willing to talk about hypnosis and the vulnerability of suggestible states that their pcs go into during session, and the safeguards they have developed to ensure that those vulnerabilities are safeguarded for their pcs?

Anyone?
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Yes, how many moviemakers are willing to discuss their deliberate inductions of trances in moviegoers, and what are they doing to try to make the situation stop being so trance-inducing? Are they making the screen smaller and encouraging conversation amongst the audience? Trying to make it so that all of the senses aren't trained to one source? NOPE! Damned hypnotists!

Oh, btw, I do metapsychology/TIR, and my rates are extremely flexible. I'd be happy as hell to charge Alan 1000 bucks an hour if he wanted to pay that, or 10 bucks an hour to someone else, or nothing to someone else.

How many people think Alanzo has oversimplified in order to create a point of argument?
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
My belief is understanding is the only route to spiritual growth. But there is a route and that is up to the individual regardless of price or effort.
What is your belief, Alanzo?
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Yes, how many moviemakers are willing to discuss their deliberate inductions of trances in moviegoers, and what are they doing to try to make the situation stop being so trance-inducing? Are they making the screen smaller and encouraging conversation amongst the audience? Trying to make it so that all of the senses aren't trained to one source? NOPE! Damned hypnotists!

Oh, btw, I do metapsychology/TIR, and my rates are extremely flexible. I'd be happy as hell to charge Alan 1000 bucks an hour if he wanted to pay that, or 10 bucks an hour to someone else, or nothing to someone else.

How many people think Alanzo has oversimplified in order to create a point of argument?

ESMBers are a unique population.

And I think that anyone trolling for business here should do it very openly and in a way that the Church of Scientology did/does not.

While I agree there is more to hypnosis and suggestibility - and the exploitation of such - most of the groups trolling here deny completely that *their* therapy has anything to do with them.

Many also exploit those states of suggestibility in their "clients", and refuse to account for it. And some even charge just as outrageous fees as the Church does.

At least you recognize that these states exist, U.

That's a start.

The dangerous ones are the ones who don't know they exist, and worse, know they exist but deny they cause them.
 

Div6

Crusader
Alanzo has no beliefs - he has mis-associated "demi-god" with demagogue, and now is neither. But he is trying....
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
My belief is understanding is the only route to spiritual growth. But there is a route and that is up to the individual regardless of price or effort.
What is your belief, Alanzo?

My belief is that the abuses of L Ron Hubbard and the Church of Scientology should not be allowed to continue on ESMB.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Learn to control your own trance! Skip on down to the Metapsychology Center, today! See Uniquemand in all his glory! YES, it's a trance! Yes, every state of mind is also a trance! Yes, you too can recognize the truthiness of the Session is a Trance mantra!
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Strange how Alanzo does Marketing for a living - and yet attempts to accuse people and groups of committing overts of marketing for a living!

Yuk! Yuk!

Alan
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Strange how Alanzo does Marketing for a living - and yet attempts to accuse people and groups of committing overts of marketing for a living!

Yuk! Yuk!

Alan

Hi Alan!

Thanks for your price list.

Have you developed any safeguards for putting people into suggestible states, so as to make sure that those states are not exploited by you or any of your practitioners?

Any safeguards whatsoever?

Have you addressed this in any way?

I've asked you this before and you have continually ignored the question. This is not something that engenders much confidence, really.

Are you just continuing L Ron Hubbard's game of exploiting those vulnerabilities on your clients for whatever you can get?
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
My belief is that the abuses of L Ron Hubbard and the Church of Scientology should not be allowed to continue on ESMB.

You have no personal understanding of how things work from what I can see. The only real value of a person is in an understandable viewpoint. You don't present one. You are a non entity.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
You have no personal understanding of how things work from what I can see. The only real value of a person is in an understandable viewpoint. You don't present one. You are a non entity.

"The only real value of a person..." sounds like cult idea is about to come next, doesn't it?

Well tell me "how things work", Nexus.

Are you trolling for business on ESMB, too?

Are you getting clients for Idenics?

What's the price list?

How are you safeguarding against exploitation of vulnerable people in ways that the Church of Scientology does not?

Are these unimportant questions to you?

If so, why on Earth would they be?
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
"The only real value of a person..." sounds like cult idea is about to come next, doesn't it?

Well tell me "how things work", Nexus.

Are you trolling for business on ESMB, too?

Are you getting clients for Idenics?

What's the price list?

How are you safeguarding against exploitation of vulnerable people in ways that the Church of Scientology does not?

Are these unimportant questions to you?

If so, why on Earth would they be?

Everyone knows what he/she wants to know. In our present position how to understand has been corrupted. To a point Idenics can be very useful. But the road to understanding is always intensely personal and is best left to oneself as it can be. One moves as one sees fit. It seems to me that you are just playing in the mud for whatever reason. Have fun.
 

RogerB

Crusader
Sad Rantings


I find it sad to watch these rantings of Alanzo.

Why so hung up on this hypnosis thing and the accusation that others are/might be doing it?

Alanzo, do you believe you experienced it in the church?

If you did, then I've got news for you.

You have a BIG M/U on what went on.

If you were hypnotized by whatever process was run on you in the church, it was not because "they did it to you"; it was because you surrendered your sovereignty, you violated your own integrity and surrendered your self determinism to allow "them" to determine you.

In case you haven't figured it out, that is the only way a person can be "hypnotized" , , , they have to violate there own integrity and surrender their power of cause to another!


AS regards trolling for business, it seems the notion of the honest attempt to inform and to help one's fellows is beyond your realm.

My view is that all the good folk you mention in that vein are to be honored because they have maintained their integrity and continued to pursue their goals, dreams and aspirations of using the workable tech they have for the benefit of themselves and their fellows.

That is to be applauded. Not challenged or ridiculed as is your sad wont.

You see, what is conveyed to me by your rants is that you have betrayed yourself and your own dreams and aspirations of achieving what you once felt the tech would achieve for you. You gave up on your own once held truth and blame all others as frauds who continue to hold true to their truths.

How sad.

Roger
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Many people leave the cult of Scientology and get right back into another cult.

I know that Scientology fulfilled a deep emotional need for me and no amount of reasoning was ever going to get me to wake up until that deep emotional need in me was fulfilled. For me, strangely, and for reasons I am still not completely aware of, my need for Scientology evaporated when my mother died.

The idea that no one should ever join a cult is false, I believe. Again, for me, when I joined Scientology, it was exactly what I needed at the time. And anyone preventing me from joining Scientology at that time of my life would have been doing me a huge disservice.

So I am not here to eliminate all cults, or to keep everyone from re-joining a cult after they have left Scientology. I understand very well the value of joining a cult.

My main purpose here in this thread is to openly discuss one of the core ways that the destructive elements in Scientology were used to exploit its members' vulnerabilities, and to see who can openly and willingly discuss that particular form of abuse.

I think those who can openly and willingly discuss this form of abuse - even if we disagree - are more able to be trusted than those who refuse to discuss it altogether.

And the reason I think this is because hypnotic states, and their vulnerabilities, are not very well understood in our society, and it is relatively easy for practitioners who put people into hypnotic states to exploit those states without very many people recognizing what they are doing.

Those who talk about it openly and honestly, then, are less likely to be exploiting these states.

Those who refuse to talk about it are probably exploiting them.

So that's why the thread "Trolling for Business on ESMB".

Let's see who will step up and talk about this.

And let's see who won't.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
... I'll get back to you...
Seems to me you're doing more trolling for business than anyone else.
What the hell are you trying to sell here?
 

Div6

Crusader
Many people leave the cult of Scientology and get right back into another cult.

I know that Scientology fulfilled a deep emotional need for me and no amount of reasoning was ever going to get me to wake up until that deep emotional need in me was fulfilled. For me, strangely, and for reasons I am still not completely aware of, my need for Scientology evaporated when my mother died.

The idea that no one should ever join a cult is false, I believe. Again, for me, when I joined Scientology, it was exactly what I needed at the time. And anyone preventing me from joining Scientology at that time of my life would have been doing me a huge disservice.

So I am not here to eliminate all cults, or to keep everyone from re-joining a cult after they have left Scientology. I understand very well the value of joining a cult.

My main purpose here in this thread is to openly discuss one of the core ways that the destructive elements in Scientology were used to exploit its members' vulnerabilities, and to see who can openly and willingly discuss that particular form of abuse.

I think those who can openly and willingly discuss this form of abuse - even if we disagree - are more able to be trusted than those who refuse to discuss it altogether.

And the reason I think this is because hypnotic states, and their vulnerabilities, are not very well understood in our society, and it is relatively easy for practitioners who put people into hypnotic states to exploit those states without very many people recognizing what they are doing.

Those who talk about it openly and honestly, then, are less likely to be exploiting these states.

Those who refuse to talk about it are probably exploiting them.

So that's why the thread "Trolling for Business on ESMB".

Let's see who will step up and talk about this.

And let's see who won't.

What kind of marketing do you do?

Do you go for subliminal contexts?

Are you trying to sway an opinion or sell a piece of MEST?

Please answer openly and honestly.

(My obnosis is that this is carping criticism = MWH. The overt doth speak loud in the accusation. YMMV.)
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa

I find it sad to watch these rantings of Alanzo.

Why so hung up on this hypnosis thing and the accusation that others are/might be doing it?

Alanzo, do you believe you experienced it in the church?


Yes.

If you did, then I've got news for you.

You have a BIG M/U on what went on.

If you were hypnotized by whatever process was run on you in the church, it was not because "they did it to you"; it was because you surrendered your sovereignty, you violated your own integrity and surrendered your self determinism to allow "them" to determine you.

In case you haven't figured it out, that is the only way a person can be "hypnotized" , , , they have to violate there own integrity and surrender their power of cause to another!
I agree.

And there were very specific techniques that were used to "help" me, although I am the one who ultimately gave them the power.

Had I known more about the techniques that were being used, I seriously doubt I would have gone along with it.

In fact, I'm sure of it.

Do you believe that you put people into states of higher suggestibility when you audit them, Roger?

If so, what safeguards do you use to make sure that those states of suggestibility are not exploited by you?

Do you inform your clients about suggestibility?

Do you encourage them to understand more about hypnosis and the therapies that use it?

Or is Knowledgism "the opposite of hypnosis" like L Ron Hubbard said Scientology was?

AS regards trolling for business, it seems the notion of the honest attempt to inform and to help one's fellows is beyond your realm.
Have we met?

I don't think so.

Although you have given me a good rogering before. Just like now.

My view is that all the good folk you mention in that vein are to be honored because they have maintained their integrity and continued to pursue their goals, dreams and aspirations of using the workable tech they have for the benefit of themselves and their fellows.

That is to be applauded. Not challenged or ridiculed as is your sad wont.

You see, what is conveyed to me by your rants is that you have betrayed yourself and your own dreams and aspirations of achieving what you once felt the tech would achieve for you. You gave up on your own once held truth and blame all others as frauds who continue to hold true to their truths.

How sad.

Roger
Don't be sad Roger.

We're still all helping people in our own way.

Even me.

You just don't agree with the way I am helping.

And if you do nothing to safeguard against the vulnerabilities of the states of suggestibility that you put people into as a Knowledgism practitioner, then I don't agree with the way you are helping, either. Just as I did not agree with the way L Ron Hubbard was "helping" once I found out what he was doing.

So we will let the population of ESMB decide what is the best help for them, how's that?
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
What kind of marketing do you do?

Do you go for subliminal contexts?

Are you trying to sway an opinion or sell a piece of MEST?

Please answer openly and honestly.

(My obnosis is that this is carping criticism = MWH. The overt doth speak loud in the accusation. YMMV.)

Yes.

My mileage certainly does vary.

You are just another Scientologist looking to cash in on people's vulnerabilities.

What do you charge, Div6?
 

Div6

Crusader
Yes.

My mileage certainly does vary.

You are just another Scientologist looking to cash in on people's vulnerabilities.

What do you charge, Div6?

You only ask questions? How about answering a few?

Or is there a double standard operating here? You demand "honesty" that you do not afford others....
 
Top