Was he Bipolar???

Discussion in 'L Ron Hubbard' started by grey crane, Jun 4, 2017.

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  1. grey crane

    grey crane sp in training

    As someone who grew up in a family with a bipolar parent, I am somewhat familiar with the condition.

    I became intrigued with Scientology about 3 years ago. They say real life is stranger than fiction ... Scientology definitely confirms that statement. Reading about El Ron and studying his life and works (and Scientology), it seems to me he may have been bipolar rather than schizophrenic. I'm not a doctor, just an average person making observations. His mood swings, obsessive writing and mixing of reality and fantasy are classic symptoms. He also definitely seems to have had mania and depression.

    Y'all might have already discussed this, but thought I would throw it out there anyway to see what the opinions are.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
  2. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist


    If Hubbard tells a staffer that he suspects that a threatening invisible spiritual being is in the back property and to go investigate it would you say that this is a symptom of Bipolar or Schizophrenia?
     
  3. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    If Hubbard wakes up and verbally abuses a guard who sleeps outside his bedroom for not waking up and capturing those responsible who stole everything in his bedroom and replaced those items with exact duplicates in a conspiratorial effort to drive Hubbard insane...is that bi-polar or schizophrenia?
     
  4. grey crane

    grey crane sp in training

    Bipolar and schizophrenia are closely related. I would say both of these scenarios are not definitively either one, but possible symptoms of both.
     
  5. grey crane

    grey crane sp in training

    One of the things that jumped out for me was the concept of body thetans. The idea of bugs or other things crawling on the skin is a common bipolar symptom, although not exclusive to bipolar disorder. It would take me a few days to write out all the reasons I think ElRon may have been bipolar. Having seen it up close in action in my life, I see it in his life.

    The bipolar I grew up with was and is a master manipulator, though age has slowed him down significantly. When he was finally diagnosed as bipolar, we (my family and I) started reading about it and we were all relived to finally have an explanation of the sometimes bizarre behavior, mood swings, etc.
     
  6. Little David

    Little David Silver Meritorious Patron

    possibly:

    schizo-affective |ˌ skitsōəˈfektiv| (also schizoaffective)
    adjective characterized by or exhibiting symptoms of both schizophrenia and a mood disorder such as bipolar disorder or depression: schizo-affective disorder | she was diagnosed as schizo-affective.
     
  7. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    I don't know anything about bipolar but since we are discussing Hubbard's mental state here are some references:

    Professor Stephen A. Kent's essay on Hubbard having a personality disorder known as "malignant narcissism":

    http://www.carolineletkeman.org/c/archives/9327

    Hubbard's PR Agent, lover and now a qualified psychologist describes him as having "a narcissistic personality", being "a manic depressive" and "paranoid":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hicxJSg0ygY
     
  8. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Sociopath - the original "SP", if you will, pointing his finger at others so no one would notice HE was the biggest SP on the planet - well - besides the other criminal dictators of tyrannies and mass destruction of peoples and souls/spirits, of freedom and independence of human beings. :mirror: He may have been other things as well, mentally - yes - screwed up, but the 'base' of him, his 'core', was sociopathic. From there, Evil arises, and pervades - invades - so many others, dupes so many others into doing his corrupt bidding to coerce others to follow along - or else - destroy those who resist and refuse to do his bidding . . . The dick was a lizard, a snake, a reptile, cold and predatory, mesmerizing his victims into offering themselves up - offering up their Souls - and of course all their money and time, their children, their lives - for devouring. Let's give the MFr a 'hand' - no - let's make that The Finger.

    :yes:

    You GO, Leah and Mike - show the world the Evil of scn/co$ . . . .
    :drama:
     
  9. grey crane

    grey crane sp in training

    Manic depressive is bipolar (see: http://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/bipolar-disorder-manic-depression#1). Narcissistic and paranoid, yes definitely symptoms.

    Do a Google search and you find plenty of articles on these symptoms as they relate to bipolar disorder.

    The Relationship Between Narcissism and Bipolar Disorder: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...nship-between-narcissism-and-bipolar-disorder

    Bipolar Disorder and Paranoia: https://www.verywell.com/what-is-paranoia-378960
     
  10. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
  11. Knows

    Knows Gold Meritorious Patron

    L Ron Hubbard was a criminal con man that had mental illness for sure. Does it matter what label we give him? He "KNEW" what he was doing and that it was a fraud and did not work. He hid from the law for the last 15 years of his life. He destroyed everyone in his family and threw his last wife under the bus.

    Who cares what condition he had - look at the damage that mother fucker did to the World. :angry:

    He has killed, maimed, destroyed and hurt thousands of people.

    Who has he helped? Another criminal con man - a dictator and ruthless little man who hides from the laws of the land - David Miscavige.

    Do Bi-Polar people commit these types of crimes against Humanity???
     
  12. grey crane

    grey crane sp in training

    From: https://www.quora.com/Can-someone-be-bipolar-and-a-sociopath

    A sociopath has learned to bend when faced with stress. Instead of getting upset or unhappy by stress, they simply don’t care about the problem. They avoid the stress by denying that it exists. This works really well for them and they’re generally happy or laid-back people who are non-judgmental because only a direct hit on their self-image can stress them out. They still get annoyed at other things sometimes, but it never spills over into anger.
    A person with bipolar disorder is damaged by stress. In order to deal with the stress, they strive to control it. They develop theories about why the stress occurs and then sets of rules to prevent the stress. They believe that if they follow all of their rules, they will be happy. This is exacerbated by the school system, which rewards a rigid set of behaviors and can be worsened by religion, which imposes yet another set. It can get to the point where the person feels that there is no way to succeed at obeying all the rules, so why try to follow any?

    Which one sounds more like El Ron? I would say the latter, but I am no expert.
     
  13. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron

    As I said, he may have had other mental problems, but his core was sociopathic. And as Knows has said, WHO CARES. He was an evil con man who destroyed thousands upon thousands of lives - and continues to this day in destroying people, through the 'leadership' of the other SP, DM, the demented monster offspring of the original monster lrh. Who cares what he had, he was Evil, and he has perpetuated Evil long after his bizarre death.

    If you don't believe in Evil, you will never it see it when it comes knocking at your door . . . .
     
  14. grey crane

    grey crane sp in training

    I absolutely agree. He was a total scumbag of a person who helped create the current scumbag who is in charge. Not trying to upset anyone. Just thought bipolar might be one of the problems the guy had. It doesn't excuse anything he did.
     
  15. Knows

    Knows Gold Meritorious Patron

    Honestly - this sounds like the "human condition" and some people just give up...others keep going.

    Bi Polar or Human Sap?

    A person with bipolar disorder is damaged by stress. In order to deal with the stress, they strive to control it. They develop theories about why the stress occurs and then sets of rules to prevent the stress. They believe that if they follow all of their rules, they will be happy. This is exacerbated by the school system, which rewards a rigid set of behaviors and can be worsened by religion, which imposes yet another set. It can get to the point where the person feels that there is no way to succeed at obeying all the rules, so why try to follow any?
     
  16. grey crane

    grey crane sp in training

    If you don't believe in mental disorders, sure, that's one way to look at it.

    The more Scientology is exposed to the masses, the more you will find people like me trying to understand what made El Ron tick. Most people I talk to still have no idea what Scientology is about. People have studied every aspect of Hitler's life to try and keep humanity from repeating the Holocaust. Trying to understand Hubbard will hopefully further undermine Scientology. Don't run people off who are interested in helping. We are the masses who will help bring Scientology to its knees.
     
  17. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Hi grey crane, welcome! :yes:

    In my case I fall into the group of those who say "Who cares?!"

    While I do believe in mental disorders, and it is obvious that Hubbard had one or more of them, I don't really care whether it was schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, or something else. We don't really know the cause of either of those disorders as yet, and for me, just putting a label on something like this doesn't really make me feel as though I understand what made El Ron tick.

    I just looked at that article you linked to and Hubbard scored 100% on those 10 points laid out! :thumbsup:

    I know I probably asked you this very question before, but do we know what causes someone to have this type of personality? :unsure:
     
  18. WhatWall

    WhatWall Silver Meritorious Patron

    Interesting discussion.

    I'm curious as to whether Hubbard's primary motivation was to hurt people, subjugate them and make less of them.

    Having spent some time around a bi-polar, I observed that he could be very magnanimous and apparently loving at times. He once went out of his way to help me resolve a sticky situation that involved using his influence in his profession. He was always loyal to me as a longtime friend. On the other hand, he was abusive to women. He once said, "Except for my sisters, all women are whores." When up, he loved to party, travel, write short stories, spend time with friends, help friends and discuss politics & philosophy. When down he was miserable & suicidal. God help you if you were an enemy because he could be vicious and underhanded, but I don't feel that he was overall out to ruin people.

    After reading The Sociopath Next Door, I think of a sociopath as someone who seeks to empower himself by ruining others. Due to a lack of empathy, the sociopath can do this without remorse. Hubbard certainly lacked remorse.

    My bi-polar friend frequently exhibited empathy and sometimes remorse.

    It seems like Hubbard eventually tried to antagonize and ruin almost everyone appointed by him to a position of authority. Behind his guise of caring for mankind, he sought power, money, adulation and the upper hand.

    Did Hubbard convince himself that he was mankind's saviour or was he consciously using that to mask his real goals?
     
  19. grey crane

    grey crane sp in training

    I think his delusion became reality for him at times. He was probably back and forth.
     
  20. WhatWall

    WhatWall Silver Meritorious Patron

    Is there such a thing as a bi-polar malignant narcissist?
     

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