What if it wasn't dub in?

[RogerB]

Roger, lately I've come to believe that every thought that was ever thought still exists. It only needs someone tuned into that frequency / wave length / vibration - whatever one wants to call it - to be ab;e to be in communication with it.

Have I mastered it ? Nope.

But I sure get flashes from the past !

Nice one, Giz!

As Norma said in "Victor/Victoria" . . . "Me too!"

But, wait till you start tangling with past created futures!

R

 

[Gizmo]

Hmm

 

[phenomanon]

Nice one, Giz!

As Norma said in "Victor/Victoria" . . . "Me too!"

But, wait till you start tangling with past created futures!

R

" O What a tangled web we weave..."

 

[Gizmo]

Of course the whole universe may be made of computer code & all we are doing is following a program that has been run many many times on humans.

So, looks like, we have been there and done that.

Now, if I could just modify the code & make it a little easier on all of us !

Maybe, just maybe, we could even get it to where the gals do not beat us so badly at most everything !

Poor old Hubbie, he hisself didn't even scratch the surface of any truth about how things are.

 

[ThetanExterior]

Of course the whole universe may be made of computer code & all we are doing is following a program that has been run many many times on humans.

So, looks like, we have been there and done that.

Now, if I could just modify the code & make it a little easier on all of us !

Maybe, just maybe, we could even get it to where the gals do not beat us so badly at most everything !

Poor old Hubbie, he hisself didn't even scratch the surface of any truth about how things are.

Someone once said that when God created man She was only kidding.

 

[Gizmo]

Someone once said that when God created man She was only kidding.

Well, mankind is the most interesting thing on this planet . . . . still .

But, if it wasn't for women there'd be no point in being here !

 

[Gizmo]

I think many exes eschew whole track incidents and BTs as batshit crazy Hubbard spew. This is despite other non-Hubbardian beliefs to the contrary. True, after a while, running dianetics, the incidents seem too pat or in some cases you know you are running dub in, and so write it all off as bull shit.

But, what of those incidents that come out of left field? And of those that don't even occur in session? Those compulsions or dramatizations that take you over and leave you wondering what the fuck just happened? You find your self stuck acting out something that has taken control of your volition? Things that you find your self doing for the first time that feel eerily familiar?

Are they manifestations of an earlier life that got turned on? The limbic system gone mad? Jungian archetypes that have got your in their thrall?

Oh and speaking of BT's - what about the ones that have startlingly real personalities and talk to you as if they were a real person? As unpredictably as when you conversing with a total stranger? Saying stuff that makes you seriously believe in their real existence?

Did you mock them up to run, or were they real?

Where as Scientologists may chalk these things up as real, what do you, the ex or non scientologist do when confronted with such a 3d pole sticking off the surface of your a 2d world? Deny it? Cognitive dissonance it? Believe it? Ignore it? Hope it goes away? Put off thinking about it? Get a migraine?

These are the things that are much like that beloved 50's tv show: Up ahead is a sign post - you are entering.... the Twilight Zone, because how do you explain them? They may be subjective, but damn - are they real. And they are unsettling.

Very unsettling.

Mimsey

Ah, using ones own imagination. That is only unsettling to those, well, ( how do I say it nicely ? ) already unsettled.

 

[SiriusIncident]

Someone once said that when God created man She was only kidding.

If God is a thetan, did a mental image picture lead to creation or was it the other way around? Maybe all of this is in some thetan's head and hasn't done any Scientology yet that would wake it up.

 

[Gizmo]

Some people to learn not to believe every thing they think.

 

[RogerB]

Here is a wonderful presentation by Rupert Sheldrake . . .

10 Dogmas Holding Back Science ~ Rupert Sheldrake Ph.D.

<font size="3"><strong>[video=youtube;9UbFa2SylqU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UbFa2SylqU[/video]

More info here:
The Summary Report of the International Summit on Post-Materialist Science, Spirituality and Society can be downloaded here: International Summit on Post-Materialist Science: Summary Report (PDF). To see more points like the one quoted above, you can check out their “Manifesto for a Post-Materialist Science.”

 

[Gizmo]

Rub a dub dub dubby

More likely all of this we think we are experiencing right now id the dub in.

What if we are really somewhere else & what we are experiencing right now is just our dream ?

So. What happens we wake up ?

Was this a good dream ?

Or not ?







Dare we explore guided imagery from within a dream ?

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Re: Rub a dub dub dubby

More likely all of this we think we are experiencing right now id the dub in.

What if we are really somewhere else & what we are experiencing right now is just our dream ?

So. What happens we wake up ?

Was this a good dream ?

Or not

Dare we explore guided imagery from within a dream ?

Another version is that the universe is a hologram.
Mimsey

 

[Gizmo]

Re: Rub a dub dub dubby

Another version is that the universe is a hologram.
Mimsey

I tend to believe that whatever this universe might be that old Dr. Hubbard never had a clue - much less a workable path to anywhere at all !

 

[RogerB]

Re: Rub a dub dub dubby

Another version is that the universe is a hologram.
Mimsey

Well, we are finding that you are right on that Mimsey.

Alan Walter actually developed the R/Ds for handling the anatomy of the hologram that is the consequence our our co-action . . .

R

 

[Maria Cuervo]

I think many exes eschew whole track incidents and BTs as batshit crazy Hubbard spew. This is despite other non-Hubbardian beliefs to the contrary. True, after a while, running dianetics, the incidents seem too pat or in some cases you know you are running dub in, and so write it all off as bull shit.

But, what of those incidents that come out of left field? And of those that don't even occur in session? Those compulsions or dramatizations that take you over and leave you wondering what the fuck just happened? You find your self stuck acting out something that has taken control of your volition? Things that you find your self doing for the first time that feel eerily familiar?

Are they manifestations of an earlier life that got turned on? The limbic system gone mad? Jungian archetypes that have got your in their thrall?

Oh and speaking of BT's - what about the ones that have startlingly real personalities and talk to you as if they were a real person? As unpredictably as when you conversing with a total stranger? Saying stuff that makes you seriously believe in their real existence?

Did you mock them up to run, or were they real?

Where as Scientologists may chalk these things up as real, what do you, the ex or non scientologist do when confronted with such a 3d pole sticking off the surface of your a 2d world? Deny it? Cognitive dissonance it? Believe it? Ignore it? Hope it goes away? Put off thinking about it? Get a migraine?

These are the things that are much like that beloved 50's tv show: Up ahead is a sign post - you are entering.... the Twilight Zone, because how do you explain them? They may be subjective, but damn - are they real. And they are unsettling.

Very unsettling.

Mimsey

The problem was not that LRH did not 'see' 'something' but that he got it totally backwards. It never occurred to him that the content was literally being FED to him, backwards and distorted.
Being an egomaniac he was impressed with what he saw and took the interpretations of what he saw to be true, the interpretations FED to him.

 

[RogerB]

I had been wondering where I might post this piece.

I was caused to write it as a result of discussion last week with another ex-scn who was highly, highly trained in the cult . . . the individual had made the comment in our discussion, parroting the Hubbard bullshit, of being aware of being "motivatorish" . . .

This info below might be of use to some here.

A note on comparative tech, and earlier wrong or partial wrong answer misrepresentations.

It is common parlance in Scn to refer to the notions of “you pulled it in” and, “you are being motivatorish.”

Well, in actuality, these are both rather low toned, Red Zone misrepresentations of the actual . . . but, since we are on a “Red Zone planet” a lot of Red Zone concepts pass for being “truth.”

In actuality, we do participate in the causing of the effects we experience in the game. But to misrepresent that cause in order to blame individuals for their condition as is done in Scn is actually a rather suppressive wrong indication, wrong item and method of control and domination of the individuals who have had this “tech” run on them.

And I suspect Hubbs either knew what he was doing or was grossly negligent with these utterances as being “great truths.”

By actual observation, we can see that the use and belief in this doctrine as espoused by Hubbs has caused a whole group of people to become subjugated and become effect of a wrong why/wrong what . . . in fact it has proven to be a nasty method of “crowd control.”

The higher level truth, up in the Green Zone/Gold Zone (say, at Action on Hubb’s Tone Scale) is that we are in a game of reciprocation with our spiritual relationships . . . and at that higher level we are involved in co-action, and the action of switching between emanatingness and receivingness along with permeation of what is caused/emanated by the players in the game such that the outcomes of our emanations can be experienced by us.

It is to be noted that, at this higher level truth, one can and does experience what one oneself emanates as well as what others reciprocate to you in response. That is the nature of the game of relationships. Indeed, it can be observed that an underlying purpose or reason for our emanating is so that we can have something to experience . . . that is, we emanate so that we can experience and enjoy the outcome.

Obviously, at the higher level of truth, this is a game construct we willingly caused and set up. The trouble developed when we likely got bored with it going on too long, began to lose interest and then, as such declined in our level of responsibility, control and knowledge in the game . . . and thereby went into violation of the game and our original want for the game. In due course, one became so hostile regarding the game that one went into violating the relationship itself and losing control.

In actuality, there is no “pulling it in” nonsense going on, nor the phony mechanism of “being motivatorish” . . . it is simply that we lost control of the reciprocations that we set up and agreed to in the higher Toned level beginning of the game.

What is true is that we do have some causation in and of what we are being affected by . . . but it is only as a result of our losing control of the game of reciprocation and as a result in the activities we engaged in as we declined the Zones becoming less and less worthy.

In Knowledgism, we do have a R/D called “Causative Processing” . . . it is designed to restore you to cause over all that you complain you are effect of.

It is a simple proposition: it involves having the client look to his own activity and part in the causing or having caused that which he now complains he is the effect of. It also involves having the client undo his having caused the thing he is now suffering in his reciprocation with others.

Discussing this with you these last few evenings caused me to think I should write all this up in a more lucid articulation . . . heh, I think I also should post it on our forum

/

 

[RogerB]

Well, Mimsey, here we have lots of info on humans communicating, as in conversing, with animals.

Also mentioned here are instances of folks communicating with plants. Rudolf Steiner famously wrote and lectured on the point that plants have a spiritual presence, and when Virginia and I were at the (his) Anthroposophical Society HQ in Dornach, Switzerland a year or two ago, we did delve into this and the matter of inter-species communication.

Anyhow, in the vein of Sheldrake's "dogs who know when their owners are coming home" . . . Virginia and I are currently being aggravated by our CAT that knows when one of us is about to arrive at our apartment front door . . . she gets there just before we open it so she can dash out into the building's inner lobby!

To be noted is that there are 36 apartments in the building, so there is no cue based on hearing us enter the lobby. And she cannot hear us when we walk across the lobby in our sneakers . . .

Here's the article . . .

Animal communicators prove it’s possible to hear an animal’s thoughts

Animal communicators are people who can fully communicate with an animal just as they would with a normal human person. The communication is telepathic and 2-way; the animal communicators can both “speak” (by sending thought out towards the animal) and “hear” (by receiving thought in from the animal).

Animal communicators have most likely existed for a long time, probably in every single culture in the world. It is only in our modern Western materialistic culture, which has been influenced by mainstream institutions of religion and science based on perceiving a reality of separateness, that such a possibility seems so outlandish. However, as the following examples show, animal communication, also known as interspecies communication, is a very real phenomenon. These animal communicators are able to access knowledge from and about these animals that they could not possibly have otherwise known.

Animal Communicator Anna Breytenbach

Anna Breytenbach is a professional animal communicator who has displayed a jaw-dropping ability to communicate with animals. As seen in this video embedded below, this video,,
Anna was summoned in the case of the black leopard who had been moved to a South African wild cat park. He was given the name Diabolo (similar to the Spanish word for devil) and was clearly an unhappy cat. He mostly snarled at anyone who went near.

The owners of the park (Jurg and Karen Olsen, the Jukani Predator Park in South Africa) were afraid of approaching him. They summoned an animal communicator (Anna) for help. After communicating with the leopard, she learnt that one of the reasons for him being upset was that he thought something was expected of him. The other reason was that he was worried about what had happened to 2 young cubs at the last place he was being kept.

When Anna relayed this to the park owner Jurg (who had professed on camera that he did not believe in animal communicators), Jurg broke down and cried. He confirmed that they were indeed 2 young cubs at the previous place. He told Anna to reassure the black leopard that nothing would be expected of him here – and that the 2 young cubs were safe. This relieved the leopard to the point where he opened up and became friendly. His name was subsequently changed to something more fitting – Spirit.


Snipped, videos and pics
/

 

[RogerB]

OK, this might rattle some nerves . . . like you die but you're not dead and un-dead instead . . . Hmmm, I like the rhyme of that.

When you die, you might know that you're dead: scientists discover signs of life after death

It’s one of the biggest mysterious in human history: What happens when we die? Does ‘consciousness’ cease to exist, because it’s a product of the brain? Or does consciousness remain, because it does not require the brain or any other physical organ to exist? It’s hard to tell, because we don’t really have any specific tool for measuring consciousness, but things are changing. Non-material science is really starting to take giant leaps forward, and more studies are emerging every year suggesting that a persons’s consciousness continues to work after the body has died.​

​

The newest one comes from a team from New York University’s Lagone School of Medicine. They investigated twin studies from Europe and the United States that looked at people who suffered cardiac arrest, flatlined, and then came back to life. We’re talking about people whose hearts have stopped; once this happens, blood no longer circulates to the brain, which means brain function is also completely dead.​

As reported by Live Science, “The brain’s cerebral cortex — the so-called “thinking part” of the brain — also slows down instantly, and flatlines, meaning that no brainwaves are visible on an electric monitor, within 2 to 20 seconds. This initiates a chain reaction of cellular processes that eventually result in the death of brain cells, but that can take hours after the heart has stopped.”​

​

The study, conducted in 2008, was the largest of its kind. It involved 2,060 patients from 15 different hospitals in the United Kingdom, United States, and Austria, and it emphasized the need for more studies of its kind to focus on cardiac arrest when asking these questions, because it is biologically synonymous with death.​

​

The study found, as have several others, that many of these patients were still aware and able to see following their biological death, but from “outside” their body, so to speak.​

​

The portion of the study that focused on UK cases, which was conducted over a four year period by researchers at the University of Southhampton, found that nearly 40% of people who survived described some type of ‘awareness’ during the time they were pronounced clinically dead, before their hearts were restarted.​

​

For example, one patient, who was a 57 year old man at the time, despite being pronounced dead and completely unconscious, with no detectable biological activity going on, recalled watching the entire process of his resuscitation.​

​

The study’s authors argue this “merits a genuine investigation without prejudice.”​

Snipped . . . . . more data at link

Nice piece here:

Dr. Eben Alexander is a Harvard trained brain neurosurgeon who published a book titled “Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon’s Journey into the Afterlife.” He once believed that consciousness was a product of our biology, but that all changed when he fell into a coma for seven days that was caused by severe bacterial meningitis, during which time he experienced himself outside of his body.​

​

He explained the problem of consciousness succinctly in a lecture he gave about his experience a few years ago:​

​

There are a lot of scientists around the world who realize that when you start getting into the mystery of consciousness, which in essence is the only thing anyone of us truly knows exists, and trying to see exactly what consciousness is, it’s kind of like asking a fish what it’s like in the water. We are so close to it that there’s no way to really separate it out. I assure you that the only thing you’ve ever really known is your own consciousness.​

/

 

[skep]

OK, this might rattle some nerves . . . like you die but you're not dead and un-dead instead . . . Hmmm, I like the rhyme of that.

When you die, you might know that you're dead: scientists discover signs of life after death

It’s one of the biggest mysterious in human history: What happens when we die? Does ‘consciousness’ cease to exist, because it’s a product of the brain? Or does consciousness remain, because it does not require the brain or any other physical organ to exist? It’s hard to tell, because we don’t really have any specific tool for measuring consciousness, but things are changing. Non-material science is really starting to take giant leaps forward, and more studies are emerging every year suggesting that a persons’s consciousness continues to work after the body has died.​

​

The newest one comes from a team from New York University’s Lagone School of Medicine. They investigated twin studies from Europe and the United States that looked at people who suffered cardiac arrest, flatlined, and then came back to life. We’re talking about people whose hearts have stopped; once this happens, blood no longer circulates to the brain, which means brain function is also completely dead.​

As reported by Live Science, “The brain’s cerebral cortex — the so-called “thinking part” of the brain — also slows down instantly, and flatlines, meaning that no brainwaves are visible on an electric monitor, within 2 to 20 seconds. This initiates a chain reaction of cellular processes that eventually result in the death of brain cells, but that can take hours after the heart has stopped.”​

​

The study, conducted in 2008, was the largest of its kind. It involved 2,060 patients from 15 different hospitals in the United Kingdom, United States, and Austria, and it emphasized the need for more studies of its kind to focus on cardiac arrest when asking these questions, because it is biologically synonymous with death.​

​

The study found, as have several others, that many of these patients were still aware and able to see following their biological death, but from “outside” their body, so to speak.​

​

The portion of the study that focused on UK cases, which was conducted over a four year period by researchers at the University of Southhampton, found that nearly 40% of people who survived described some type of ‘awareness’ during the time they were pronounced clinically dead, before their hearts were restarted.​

​

For example, one patient, who was a 57 year old man at the time, despite being pronounced dead and completely unconscious, with no detectable biological activity going on, recalled watching the entire process of his resuscitation.​

​

The study’s authors argue this “merits a genuine investigation without prejudice.”​

Snipped . . . . . more data at link

Nice piece here:

Dr. Eben Alexander is a Harvard trained brain neurosurgeon who published a book titled “Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon’s Journey into the Afterlife.” He once believed that consciousness was a product of our biology, but that all changed when he fell into a coma for seven days that was caused by severe bacterial meningitis, during which time he experienced himself outside of his body.​

​

He explained the problem of consciousness succinctly in a lecture he gave about his experience a few years ago:​

​

There are a lot of scientists around the world who realize that when you start getting into the mystery of consciousness, which in essence is the only thing anyone of us truly knows exists, and trying to see exactly what consciousness is, it’s kind of like asking a fish what it’s like in the water. We are so close to it that there’s no way to really separate it out. I assure you that the only thing you’ve ever really known is your own consciousness.​

/

Yeah, I read that with interest yesterday. I fail to see, however, how it is different from Near Death Experiences that have often been documented. Did I miss something? I read it a number of times, and if I recall, the study talks about those revived within a very short time period.. 2-3 minutes.

 

[Tilly]

Seriously though, I don't believe that a person should search in scientology for the meaning of those experiences Mimmsy has thoughts on. scientology doesn't define those experiences as much as it applies them to create the next problem that needs to be addressed by scientology and only scientology.

One of many reasons lies in this hypothetical situation.

A person has gone through the process of learning about reality according to hubbard's teachings. This being in our current times their are many outside influences, media, internet, word of mouth, overheard conversations, etc., coming in to the person's awareness and they find themselves with a mental struggle going on because of the difference between hubbard's beliefs and reality.


The influence of stories here, shoring up hubbard's beliefs and playing down reality could be a tipping point for some sitting on the line between the two.

scientology teaches you to believe in the ruin that only scientology can fix. It uses every thing YOU experience against you by making it credited to scientology. Experiences can be gained by the processes of scientology but their definitions are altered to benefit scientology.

I'm new to all this, but, this is the most sensible thing I have seen on this thread.