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Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Vittorio, May 30, 2011.
Walk out of the door, bypass the Freezone and don't look back.
That is easier said than done (for many reasons, differing from person to person).
I take it you are a Freezoner Gadfly?
Not at all. I have NEVER been affiliated with any Free Zone group or person. I have received no auditing or training since about 2000.
I suppose I am a brutal libertarian. Let people do as they please, as long as they don't fuck with anybody else (especially in the name of some "cause").
I do an occassional contact assist, as they ALWAYS "work" for me, and I know of no other "technique" anywhere that gets such wonderful results.
I do from time to time a wonderful drill from a P.A.B. called "Ten Minutes of Nothingness" (it is sort of like meditating).
I agree with and do my best to apply the issue, Personal Integrity written by Hubbard (though not followed by Hubbard and Church Scientologists).
I still turn my lights off at night as recommended in some LRH admin policy. I still use crumpled newspaper to clean my windows. I still use a three-basket system.
I grant the right of any person to use whatever he or she feels best, including any part of Hubbard's subject, as long as he or she does NOT harm, lie to, deceive or manipulate any other person. Of course THAT requirement negates a GREAT DEAL of Hubbard's "green policies" that are designed entirely and ONLY to forward and expand the "mission of Scientology to influence and take over the world". That also negates a good deal of "ethics" policies" and nearly ALL of the "justice" policies.
I can see how various aspects of Hubbard's subject can and do have positive value for some people, and no amount of arguing, demanding or asserting can or will ever change that. Some might not like that - but such IDEAS will not change the facts of reality. That some decent and honest people, who also do NOT suffer from any imaginary "addiction", choose to freely use some aspect of Hubbard's subject to better ones own life (and the lives of others in their own best estimation). What things?
Such things as R3R and assists that adddress and handle past traumas and upsets. Sensible uses of "study tech" when applied to REAL subjects and NOT to "mind control materials" such as KSW #1. I found the expanded grades to be wonderful, and I couldn't honestly tell anyone that they were other than wonderful in my own experiences.
It seems to me that most Scientologists suffer from an "all-or-none" attitude while involved with the Church of Scientology, an attitude that is foisted upon them by exact indoctrination into Hubbard's paradigm, and when they get out here, as ex-Scientology members, some still carry along with them THAT dumb and sorry trait - making everything exist as some restrictive "all-or-none" proposition. So, in a similar way, some critics push it to an absurd extreme, just as did active members while involved with organized Scientology.
But also, in case you aren't familiar with my past posts (which you seem not to be since you asked me if I was a "freezoner"), I have the firm view, based on a great deal of personal experience, that the entire STRUCTURE of the Scientology organization, based on EXACT LRH policies and directives, is entirely TOXIC. It involves severe indoctrination into very absolutist attitudes that are NOT healthy for ANY person to accept and believe. The Church organization, in ANY form, as long as it follows Hubbard's writings and talks, will always be insane.
While not entirely true, but as a close approximation, I would say that one could take away and remove ALL "green volume" subject materials and flush them right down the toilet, and keep and use some of the "red volume" subject materials, and that such a setup would be largely innocuous for most of the people most of the time.
I don't do that really, in that I have myself flushed almost ALL of it down the toilet, including the "red volume" stuff, but I can see how some of it can be useful to some, and I can even find some "good stuff" strewn through both the "red and green volumes".
Simply, the "mission aspect" of Scientology is what renders it so severe, so very nasty and so uncompromising. Some don't think that can be removed. I don't see it being that difficult. And, as it seems to me, some in the Free Zone manage it just fine. That comment does NOT include the Marty brigade, as he still appears to me to still hold onto FAR TOO MUCH OF the KSW "we-are-salvaging-this-sector" stupidity.
When you flushed them down the toilet , i hope you first made them brown on white Gadfly.Thats what id call 'corrected' tech.
I think it's up to the person. And everyone has their own journey.
It would be very interesting to actually see the difference , running a company that threw out the policy green on white vols aND just ran the lower bridge grades without all CoS policy bullshit.
Without emergecy, fear, must do , must have, must be, must clap,must salute and at a reasonable cost of what ever you can afford per an hour, even giving credit.
And maybe it is part of Vittorio's journey to state this.
If someone leaves the Church of Scientology, I would attribute that to their honesty and integrity.
It seems that if they continued that very same honesty & integrity they would eventually leave Indie Scientology too.
I can't imagine how that would be unavoidable.
Actually though, I can imagine how that could be avoidable to and for an "indie Scio". With the person still remaining entirely honest and true to oneself.
But really, does it matter?
I'm sure it is. And that's fine.
Having been out of Cof$ for going on 30 years, I have no real knowledge of what it has morphed into since then except from reading posts on here from those who were out more recently. From what I gather, Cof$ has gotten increasingly militant and culty since way back when, when I was being repremanded all the time for my J&D, which was mainly making comments about all of the recent declares (this was spring of 1980) in a Russian accent, to make the point of comparing the declares to those who fell out of favor with Stalin. Finally, in Summer of 1980, there was a price roll back and some blame assigned to some people who were busted or declared since "Hubbard didn't know" or some such excuse, along with some major promised relaxing of the whole police state attitude that was going on. A friend of mine spotted the "reforms" as being totally bogus and decided that was it for him, he went ahead and asked for a refund for OT levels he had already paid for.
Anyways ... back then ... there were lots of people that were kinda sorta online, the Kuiper belt objects with respect to the mission as opposed to the regular planets ... but they were considered "friendlies" and people to hang out with from time to time. The regulars and those in an "outer orbit" were all folk who were more likely than not to think outside the box, have interests other than tubing out in front of MLB, the NBA or NFL, lots played musical instruments. Since then, anyone I have encountered who was Cof$ was definitely KSW/militant with no time for anyone except those of a similar mindset, totally unwilling to discuss the subject with anyone who might have a different point of view, etc.
So what does that all mean ... well, I don't get how someone leaving today would fit in with a non militant version of the subject unless they go way way back. Considering what I have encountered in the way of clams over the last few years, I would have to say that they would be happier as JW's than freezoners.
And still consider themselves a Scientologist?
Oh, really, of all the people who use "some part" of the huge subject of Scientology, who are no longer affiliated in ANY way with the official Church abomination, I truly wonder how many actually CALL THEMSELVES a "Scientologist". I mean who actually walks out their front door, holds their head high, and loudly proclaims for all to hear, "I am proud to be a Scientologist". It really sounds hokie to me. I can understand how some "newly out" types might still attach the label to themselves, since they can feel "lost" out there in the beginning without all the props from the group, but to me, identification with the term is as restrictive as life in the official Church of Scientology. But, I could be wrong - I live on a small mountain and am basically a "hermit". What do I know? :confused2:
But, cripes, I never considered myself a Scientologist or called myself one when I was involved with Scientology and even when in the Sea Org (no kidding). I just never felt comfortable wearing the "label". So, I think people tend to put too much stock or meaning in whether or not any person calls him or herself a "Scientologist". To me, if someone does, personally, I think they are weird - because they feel the strange need to identify so closely with such an IDEA and LABEL. Now granted, Hubbard forces the notion upon members through intense Church indoctrination, but once firmly out and away from the official Church lunacy, there seems to be no great pressure to any longer accept and keep the defining label. (except for true inbreds and idiots like Marty and company who just can't seem to muster up the gumption to just LET IT GO)
Shit, if I won the lottery tomorrow, I might search out a Class XII in the Free Zone and get the L Rundowns - just for shits and giggles! It would be almost entirely out of curiosity. I can easily imagine "doing some sort of Scientology", and yet NOT at all consider myself "a Scientologist". I do Transcendental Meditation, but I rarely mention it to anyone, and I don't consider myself as a "TMer". I visualize from time to time, yet I don't consider myself a "New Ager". I try to practice "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", forgiveness, and true non-judgment, yet I do not at all, in any way, consider myself a Christian. But then I have long ago lost any need to "attach myself to some label" and to loudly present "myself to the world" AS this label.
Granted some people do that - but I generally find them somewhat weird (to me). One always restricts and limits self when accepting or adopting any label, especially when that label defines an exact specific body of agreements and beliefs.
That it a very good advise and what I consider should be done.
I remember I had to overcome a dependency to the cult and the land of fear and hell (what they put in my brain) of being denied my eternity
Facing a whole situation may demand courage but not half of it
Recovering freedom demand to let go any dependancy and face our fears.
That's a good one. Love it
Brown on white tech - put together from ''source''
Can't imagine how one could leave the abusive cult and keep applying a totalitarian abusive cult scriptures and technology design for brain-washing and intelligencia purpose.:confused2:
(especially for ones who have suffered the worst of ELRON and misscabbage lunatic 1984 world
but that is only IMHO