Why Are Scientologists So Immature ?

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by mockingbird, Jun 16, 2018.

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  1. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    Why Are Scientologists So Immature ?

    I just listened to the third episode of the Opening Minds podcast.

    In it Jon Atack and Christian Szurko discuss something completely relevant to the state of mind of Scientologists and what it is like to leave Scientology. Chris Shelton left Scientology and had to deal with a significant obstacle.

    There is an idea worth examination to me which they discussed. There is a hypothesis that cult members enter a kind of infantilized state in their relationships to the cult leader. That's a fancy way to say they are emotionally at the level of a pre-adolescent in their submissive infatuation with the cult leader.

    They are like children that believe everything their parents say and see no flaws in their parents. By thirteen most of us lose the rose colored glasses and rebel against our parents. Scientologists assume the state of mind from before this period and it defines their mindset.

    I have seen folks who are frustrated in dealing with Scientologists repeatedly describe it as similar to talking to nine and ten year olds. Unfortunately they are not wrong.


    The exit point from Scientology can lead in several directions. A person can stay in that cult mindset and cult hop from group to another. That is a way to stay like a young child and seem a new parent to guide you.


    We question why some ex Scientologists have embraced conspiracy theories or become Trump supporters who see no flaws in his character or behavior in any way. They are simply infatuated with him, not romantically but like the child entirely dependent on a parent for survival.


    The other route a Scientology cult member can take is not perfect either. It's like hitting your thirteenth birthday emotionally and throwing off the rose colored glasses regarding Hubbard. You usually have a ton of false beliefs from Scientology and enough mental and emotional baggage to spend several lifetimes unpacking.


    You may have an instinctive or well defined sense of weakness in your thinking that contributed to your being duped in Scientology. It's sometimes something that becomes a desire for information on cults, influence, Scientology in particular or critical thinking or other subjects. In part it depends on your own experiences and the information you encounter. Some people just are satisfied to believe Hubbard and Miscavige are evil people who lied.


    But the important thing to me is dealing with whatever a person personally needs to and dealing with facing the reality of having the emotional maturity of a thirteen year old despite being forty something or fifty something or whatever age you are.


    I have seen information from people that deal with drug addiction and describe clients as not progressing in maturity while using and being frozen at a young age emotionally. Similarly in Scientology I was addicted to the euphoric trance states I could enter on course. It was a worry free state that I interpreted as miraculous and enlightened. In retrospect it appears to just be total obedient submission to the authority of Hubbard.


    Spending years chasing a high from putting your judgement entirely under the control of another person's will is not a way to mature as a person. I recently asked several questions. One was why ex Scientologists fight and argue so much. Another was why do many become conspiracy theorists and get into other cultic relationships, including Trump supporters who see him as an infallible hero, and in some cases a messianic savior.


    I think a viable answer may be that they upon exiting Scientology have to deal with growing up. I have seen lots of information on attachment styles and that cults have unhealthy attachment as the norm. So the ex cult member has two strikes against them, especially if they were raised in the cult.


    They are thrust into the world as thirteen year olds emotionally - at best - and have spent years or their whole lives in relationships with unhealthy attachment as the only thing they know.


    They can face an uphill battle to grow up and form and maintain healthy relationships or revert to immature and unhealthy attachment in other cults or cult like behaviors.
     
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  2. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    You are correct. The defining characteristic of an adult is the ability to make his own decisions about his life, based on his realistic estimate as to how those decisions will affect his long-term future. The child, meanwhile, defers to the authority of parents.

    Cults want obedient children.
     
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  3. hummingbird

    hummingbird Patron with Honors

    The thing that crosses my mind in reading the starting post of this thread is the phrase "Let Go, Let God."

    Don't all religions basically want their sheep followers to blindly follow, accepting the "leader's" word as the only enlightened truth? Don't they all want their parishioners to be obedient, dependent, unquestioning flock; that is, children?

    Yes, $cn uses this to some very twisted ends, but it's hardly new to them.
     
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  4. Bill

    Bill Silver Meritorious Patron

    No, not "all religions". Some do, some don't. Most Christian and Muslim religions tend to be more authoritarian, others allow for (and even encourage) debate.
     
  5. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    You lose half your audience by making this a political thread.
     
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  6. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    Veda, I am telling the truth. Should I lie ?
     
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  7. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    Regarding all religions being cults or not being cults the book The Discipling Dilemma by Flavil Yeakley has probably the best scientific evidence presented which I am aware of.

    Several groups including Scientology, the Moonies and many Christian groups allowed members to take personality tests. In most groups members have a random spread of personality types. But in some, Including Scientology and several generally regarded as cults or high control groups an interesting phenomenon occurs very consistently.

    People over time all tend to have the same personality. The personality of the founder of leader. This book is available free online for anyone interested. To my mind the high control groups can be Christian or Muslim or not. Most members of mainstream religions probably are not in cultic relationships. But some are. Sometimes the local religious leader decides that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
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  8. Bill

    Bill Silver Meritorious Patron

    Unless you have independent, scientific polling data on ex-Scientologists' voting preferences, that is only your opinion. Veda is commenting on your choice of including your political opinion in this thread, not accusing you of lying.
     
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  9. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    I don't think seeing anyone that follows a leader and decides that they are infallible, a saviour and beyond criticism is in a cultic relationship is a political opinion. That's a sidestepping of the issue.
     
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  10. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I was liking the gist of the thread until it was used twice as a vehicle to attack people who support Trump. How about the people who fanatically support Slick Willie to this day knowing full well how he abused cigars and garmentry sporting Hubbard's favorite color? And how about JFK's dalliances with Exner and Monroe? All completely forgivable because they pushed an agenda worth supporting at all costs.

    Trump supporters don't necessarily like or trust Trump but they know what he isn't. He isn't the incestuous self serving bureaucracy that's selling out this country to every interest but American's interests. They are willing to overlook his quirks and his hair if it means smashing that monopoly.

    Now as for the idea that Scientologist's suffer from arrested development, since many are proselytized around the age they are ready to move out of the house or going to college, I think it only makes sense that there is an element of youthful indiscretion and rebellion against parents and other authority figures leaving a vacuum which can be filled with a few tall tales and false promises, including the Democrat Party (intentional dig).

    TRUMP WORKS OUT A TRADE DEAL WITH KIM JONG-UN

    432C38AA00000578-4782690-image-a-79_1502472244955.jpg

    Ex-Scientologist still being immature.
     
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  11. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Keep in mind that half the country voted for Trump, and had their reasons for doing so. Based on experience on this board, more ex scientologists voted for Hillary.
     
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  12. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    You can follow any leader and be a cult member. The relationship makes the cult not the political label.

    By the way millions of people who voted for Trump are not in a cultic relationship. Just like some Christians are in cultic sects while most are not.
     
  13. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    You are describing Obama supporters.
     
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  14. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    I can agree with that. For myself, I voted for Trump because I decided that I and my loved ones were more likely to prosper in safety with him in charge than under Hillary, rather than because I'm a fan.
     
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  15. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I get the impression that Trumpists are an oppressed minority on the Bunker as well.
     
  16. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    OK, here's the cult challenge. You park your car in a predominantly Republican neighborhood with an Obama or Hillary bumper sticker and I'll park my car in a predominantly Democrat neighborhood with a Bush or Trump bumper sticker and let's see whose car gets keyed first.
     
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  17. strativarius

    strativarius Comfortably Numb

    I know you can't judge a book by its cover, but as far as the Donald is concerned I much prefer this look to the one he has at present.

    [​IMG]

    Old rocket man looks a lot less threatening as well IMO. :D
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
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  18. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Oh, I don't know - it kind of grows on you...yuk, yuk.
     
  19. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    I would think it would be wiser for you to take the "park in Republican territory with Hillary sticker" side of the deal, and let whoever takes the other side of the deal have the expense of the learning experience.
     
  20. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    Fuck trump, fuck hillary, fuck hubbard.
     
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