Why I didn't do OTVIII - my story part 2

Discussion in 'Stories From Inside Scientology' started by Mrs Pattycake, Jul 9, 2009.

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  1. CherryTree

    CherryTree Patron

    The fisrt thing that came to my mind after reading your story, and the first few comments, is a novel by George Orwell called 1984, I'm sure many of us know it. The most significant similarity between Scientology and this book is the thought crime. You are punished for things you think not just do. And it is really really sad. If someone is interested in the book I recommend it very much.
  2. chipgallo

    chipgallo Patron Meritorious

    Thanks for the tip!

    For me, Vicky and Mick's work with their respective children is inspirational and of interest to a community of care givers who face similar challenges every day. Scientology is by organizational stricture a bit player in this story, except when they go out of their way to block dissemination of wins from places like the Better Baby Institute (which happened in the early 1980's).
  3. Mrs Pattycake

    Mrs Pattycake Patron with Honors

    Hey Chip,

    I am just about to put up a new thread and thought I'd catch up on any comments I had not answered on my previous one. Thanks so much for the validation !

    By the way, the program we did with Courtney for 5 years intensively and got her so much of the way there was from the Institutes For the Achievement of Human Potential IAHP. They are the same folk that run the Better Baby Institute.

    The Better Baby is for "well" kids and the IAHP is for the "hurt" kids. They run Better Baby to help subsidise the costs for IAHP to help the parents of hurt kids. The Doman family run it and they (and their staff) are some of the most wonderful people on the planet.

    Interestingly, I am just starting to write a book along with two other girl friends - we all meet through IAHP and our lives have interwinned in an amazing way since then. We are going to each write our own bit and then mix them together on a timeline as our paths cross.

    We thought of this a few years ago but I always kind of had
    back off as the CofS and the tech would have to feature quite heavily in my story as it was such a huge part of our lives - and it was not always a positive thing. Now I feel I can write freely and and looking forward to starting it now.

    Our idea was that it would be a fun and inspirational read for others - our working title is "The blonde, the brunette and the redhead." ( I'm the blondie ).

    So ... see how we go with it . But you comm got to me just as I had made the decision to do it ! :whistling:


  4. karlo97

    karlo97 Patron

    I left on OT7, and when I decided to do it my way, I audited out all ARC breaks with the FLAg reges and all the outness over there, those were one of my best sessions.....if I would have done it or realized it as long I was in ( I did not realize it, because it was"THETA" they ordered me ) they would have called me back......slavery is the right description, not many realize it, so they do not approach it in their auditing..... of course I felt the outness lomg before, thought, I am on the wrong way...bullshit, internet opened my eyes,too.....when I started reading ( afraid of consequences in the beginning ) I red everything I yould get....and then I had the right picture...big relief for me !!!!!
  5. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Gold Meritorious Patron

    As our friend Tory says, you flip untill you can't flip anymore. That is when you find your way out.

    Good For you Mrs.Pattycake :happydance:
  6. JinLing

    JinLing Patron

    I had this realized the same thing as you basically on a claydemo i had to do on otherintentions and counterintensions. Oh gosh.. it was so hard to cope with the result. I basically got out of it that the only right intention was to be a SO member, which of course i couldnt since i had taken lsd in the past. But just the idea. I stayed anyway after this for quite some time, but it was an uncomfortable feeling. And it felt a bit strange that all i was told about LRH´s life, all the things he had done in his life, the things he said about arts and so on, why was that ok for him but otherintention if i wanted to do it?
  7. Feral

    Feral Rogue male

    Hey, JinLing, welcome!

    Have you ever thought what they wanted you to do *was* the other intention?

    Other intention and counter intention are a matter of viewpoint and purpose.
  8. Chess

    Chess Patron with Honors

    Good post and well spotted.
  9. JinLing

    JinLing Patron

    thanks :)
    Yes for sure it was like that. But i didnt see that then. I thought something was wrong with me that thought my "otherintentions" were important...
  10. Stephanie

    Stephanie Patron with Honors

    Mrs. Pattycake,

    Love, love, love your stories. You should be a writer if your not already in your 'real' life.

    Fantastic stories, and glad to know the OTs aren't worth it up at the top. I"ll be keeping my $$$ to myself.

  11. Lohan2008

    Lohan2008 Gold Meritorious Patron


    Good to see you posting Patty :hug:

    some insight huh ?

    I had started to have these strange dreams about OTVIII – where I opened the pack and in LRH's handwriting it said “ Ha, ha, ha ... it's all been a big joke ! ”
  12. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Great story and exposure of what is going on!

    Mrs. Pattycake - Great story and I am not using "great" in a banal, trite manner but I really mean Great!! Your story answered many many things about which I was curious and wanted to know but felt that I would never know.

    I finished OT V and thought I pretty much knew what OT VI and OT VII were about and had some ideas about OT VIII. What always bothered me the most about these levels was, "Why all the intensives of sec checks, over and over?" It just did not seem to make sense that beings going as far in Scientology as you went would continually load up with new overts despite the fact that they were always solo auditing and could easily handle their overts in session on a daily basis. The best I could figure was that the endless sec checking was donw only for monetary reasons to generate more income since the number of new people doing upper service was declining, they had to continually sell the small number of public they had new services over and over to generate their income.

    You showed that while there is undoubtedly some of this phenomena present, this is not the main reason for all the sec checks. Their explanation that as you go up the bridge further and further, you pull in doing more and more overts and that more overts is an indicator that you are making progress is just absurd. As one proceeds up the bridge, the logical outcome is that the number of overts committed drops much lower. What they are suggesting would be akin, in the WOG world, to saying that someone such as Mother Teresa who was more and more selfeless and dedicated to helping others as she progressed up the line in her Church, was actually committing more overts as her willingness to help others increased. Of course that whole premise is totally absurd!

    I could see that their end phenomena was to get everyone who went up the bridge to eventually devote ALMOST their whole lives to assisting Scientology to grow but I was not able to "connect the dots" to see that they considered a person unethical unless they joined the Sea Org. Talk about someone enforcing his or her reality upon someone else!

    Well done to your Husband for being able to spot truth on the internet when he saw it and well done to you for thoroughly checking out the data and recognizing that it was true and taking the steps necessary to leave C of S. Now, those actions were really and truly what you did that was most Ethical! Being an ex Sea Org member myself, I am trying to figure out the "official" C of S position on ex Sea Org. Since we already were in and had the opportunity to be one of the elite and then we then left, we must indeed be considered extra slimey in their eyes. They will still gladly take our money in payment for services but behind their smiliing faces when they do so, many of them must really despise us. The only policy I ever encountered concening ex Sea Org is that read to me by Mike Mauer when I was on my routing form out of the Apollo. He read that LRH said that anyone who leaves the Sea Org is either insane or incompetent. Naturally, any such comments by LRH were not made broad public issue due to their bad public relations connotations.

    Thanks again for your illuminating post and all that you have done for others by releasing this data.
    Lkwdblds aka Lakey
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2009
  13. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    New awarenesses on this topic

    Mrs. Pattycake -
    Your topic began swiming around my mind this morning while I was driving to work and I had some major new awareness (cognitions) on the topic. What we have here seems to me to be a very gross distortion of the Application of Ethics by a person or persons who do not actually understand the basic principles of Ethics, or Scientology style Ethics and are practicing a renegade, bastardized version of what they perceive Scientology Ethics to be.

    Ethics is supposed to be a personal matter that a person has to put in on themselves. It is not supposed to be enforced on a person from outside the person. Also, Scientology Management believes that no person really has his or her Ethics in unless they join the Sea Org.

    What's going on is something like this:
    1. Ethics must be put in by a person by himself or herself.
    2. No Scientologist is Ethical unless they join the Sea Org.
    3. Auditing won't bite or take hold unless a person's Ethics are in.
    4. As a person gets more and more aware, they commit more out ethics.
    5. We can not come out and tell a person directly that their Ethics are out.
    6. A Person should not receive auditing while they are out Ethics per #3.
    7. We must do something to change and help the person but not auditing.
    8. Therefore it follows that we must Sec Check the person.
    9. Sec checking is not auditing but it will help a person put in his own Ethics.
    10. When a person puts some Ethics in then he can get the next higher level.
    11. After #10, then more sec checking must be done.
    Steps 10. and 11. are done leapfrog style until the person gets to the top of the Bridge at OT VIII, this is kept up until they cognite that they must join the Sea Org in order to be fully Ethical. If they do not cognite on this then they are given more sec checking and this is continued until they finally see that they must join the Sea Org. A further benefit to the Org of all of this is the stat and monetary fall outs of the Org delivering all the sec checking. This is a win - win situation where the person gets more ethical and goes up the bridge while the Org is rewarded with high stats and high income.

    I think that point #4 among some others is the most flagrantly incorrect point. A person could just be told that they are out ethics by not joining the Sea Org or they could be required to do one clay demo showing why to be ethical one must join the Sea Org and another clay demo showing how one can try and still be ethical and yet not join the Sea Org.
    If the wording of the demos was phrased properly, the OT could be made to cognite that the second demo was not possible to make because the premise behind the demo was illogical. The second demos could always be flunked by the supervisor until the person agreed with the Org's desired result.

    Thus, a couple of clay demos like this could achieve the same effect as having the person spend tens of thousands of dollars without costing the person huge sums of money plus taking up a lot of the person's time. A fair Org which delivered in abundance, which LRH states is the best exchange, should have a fiduciary responsiblity to make sure a parishioner's money is spent the most effective way possible and should not be trying to take all the person's money on a whim, true or untrue, that the person is unethical unless they see things the Org's way! Lkwdblds
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2009
  14. Whattodo

    Whattodo Patron

    What if he did? How would he respond?
  15. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    It was 9 years ago that xenusdad made that post. At that time I believe his brother was in the Sea Org but now I think he's out.

    However, the fact is that no self-respecting scientologist is going to spend time reading a story about how someone came to leave scientology. They would run a mile from it.
  16. Onkel

    Onkel Patron

    Where can I find his thread? Thanks for writing your story! :)
  17. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    It's hard to locate older threads,
    but I searched and found it for you.
    Thread you asked about? :hattip:
  18. phenomanon

    phenomanon Gold Meritorious Patron

  19. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    Ron said a person was as successful as he replicated the methods of the MEST universe. Or something like that I read back when the RTC became an entity. So maybe the ethics office became the BORG. Gobbling up all universes into ONE by eliminating, not counter-intention, but all other-intentioned-ness. ONE MIND. ONE THINK. ONE FORWARD IMPULSED, ONE COMMAND. Oh wait.....wasn't that the very reason Ron was so vehement on the subject of Xenu, the overlord who threatened SELF-DETERMINISM. Hehehe. I guess he slid into the WINNING valence in the end.
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  20. Onkel

    Onkel Patron

    Thanks a million.. That was super nice of you! :runaround:

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