Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Veda, Feb 19, 2012.

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  1. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    If it were possible to travel back in time, and you, circa 2012, could have talked with you [insert date when you were first becoming involved with Scientology] what would you have said?

    Would the you - then - have listened to the you now?

    There are problems inherent with this question. Much is known now that was not known then. For example, I, circa 2012, could not have cited information revealed in the late 1970s (as a result of the 1977 FBI raids), or information from interviews of the the early 1980s (from books, such as 'Madman or Madman?' or 'Barefaced Messiah'), or information from 1984 (from Armstrong vs CofS), if I, circa 2012, had been talking to me of, let's say, 1970, as I was about to begin the Communications Course as a novice Scientologist.

    So, my 2012 message to my 1970 self would have been limited, if I had wished to be taken seriously, since I couldn't expect to have been taken seriously if I had said, "Oh hi! I'm a time traveler from 2012."

    Could I have done any good? Could I have successfully warned myself?

    Could you, now, talking to you - back then (and for some of you, the "then," may be a more recent time, making the question much simpler) - have done any good?

    Or would you - back then - have rejected the message from you, circa 2012, and you - back then - have proceeded with your intended course of action despite a visit and intervention from the time-traveling you of 2012?

    Just curious. :)
  2. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    What an excellent concept.

    As I was a youngster then, the only thing i can think of is something like "don't limit yourself to your parent's beliefs". Sadly I also think that would not have mattered, as I was offered an exciting world with apparently huge humanitarian goals, and inclusion in a group... something a shy teen responds to.
  3. LongTimeGone

    LongTimeGone Silver Meritorious Patron

    I believe I could easily persuade myself that I should avoid the cult.

    The simplest way would be to go over everything I understood about the teachings.

    Then take away the mystery of the OT levels and especially remove any ideas that the cult offers eternal life and power.

    Finally explain how much it will cost in terms of money, emotional trauma, physical harm and the devastating effects of relationship breakdowns.

    In other words get me to open my eyes before I ventured into the spider's web.

  4. WildKat

    WildKat Gold Meritorious Patron

    Excellent subject!!:thumbsup:

    I don't know the answer to this one. I like to think that I (now) could talk me (then) out of it, but I am not sure. I was pretty stubborn 30+ years ago!

    I think the most effective thing might have been to say something like: "If you continue with Scientology, you will likely spend the next 30-50 years and probably $300,000. That is a huge investment. Why don't you talk to some people who have done exactly that and see what they are like? Talk to both sides, pro and con. Don't just listen to the hype."

    But would that have worked???

    The thing is, when you're young and idealistic, you pretty much WANT to believe the hype and WANT to be positive and hopeful. You're full of hopes and dreams and fears, and church staff are programmed to take full advantage.
  5. Good twin

    Good twin Floater

    I honestly don't think I could have talked me out of it. My parents seemed okay with it and I'm just me. Back then I wouldn't have trusted myself. I needed something to believe in and a purpose that I could believe was my own.

    I guess I really sort of feel that Scientology was part of my destiny or part of my evolution depending on which side of the fence I decide to sit on. But I feel it would have happened no matter what, because it did. I'm who I was before the cult and I'm still who I was while I was in.

    Wow. Tricky OP. Verrry interesting, Veda.
  6. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    This is actually a question I've asked myself on several occasions over the past few years and I'm not confident that I could have prevented the 1979 version of myself from getting involved in the cult.

    Given the opportunity to time travel back I would first schedule a consultation with Steven Hassan and get his help in the matter, as well as read any available books such as this one:

    With the stakes so high I'd definitely get professional help with this issue.
  7. FoTi

    FoTi Crusader

    I would have told myself and convinced myself to not give them my college tuition money and not sell my car to pay for services. I would have also convinced myself not to quit my job or college to go sit in the HGC waiting for an auditor. I would have talked myself into and convinced myself to be patient, finish college, get my degree, get a good job....and then do the auditor training (only when I could easily afford to pay for it) and insist on a co-audit rather than being shoved into paying for auditing in the HGC and I would tell myself to not allow anyone in Scientology to pressure me or bully me into doing anything I didn't want to do and never pay for any services that I couldn't afford and never go into debt to anyone in order to give money to the CoS. not swallow their friggin lies about their Bridge to Total Freedom and going Full OT. And....I would have counseled myself against their BS that Scientology is more important than anything else in life.....something which really f*cked up my life big time for a lot of years!

    And I would have told myself.....don't ever turn against your friends and family in the name of Scientology.

    And I would have advised myself.....don't ever give the CoS any of your inheritance!!!!!!

    That's some of what I would have said to myself back then from what I know now.
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
  8. freethinker

    freethinker Crusader

    just before I got in, Yes.

    Two years after, maybe not.

    Four years after, Yes

    And yes from there on out.
  9. Ho Tai

    Ho Tai Patron Meritorious

    What has put this into perspective to me is looking at the fact that there have been cases in which people have come to believe that God is telling them to kill their children. And other people have killed their children because their minds can't come up with other solutions to their problems. And don't get me started on terrorists who blow people up! I know that each of us has to have confidence that we are making good decisions, but examples of people that make incredibly wrong decisions because they believe they are right keep me on guard. I think I would approach myself with these examples to at least plant the thought that I should be careful.
  10. Dilettante

    Dilettante Patron with Honors

    My stay was short, damages were kept to a minimum for me. I do have advice for me then, "The only thing that works about you in scio is you, despite all their efforts to prove otherwise, must...keep...self...intact..." Who knows maybe I would have exited sooner.
  11. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    This is a very interesting hypothetical question.
    As I have said before, no one could have got me out of Scientology but by myself.

    But, as you question, would I have listened to myself (in this scifi hypothetical)?
    Who would know? I don't know. :confused2:

    This is a VeRy wEiRd question.
  12. NonScio

    NonScio Patron Meritorious

    I would have told my 1970 self: "Hey, get a life...there are better places to meet girls"
  13. TG1

    TG1 Angelic Poster


    Excellent question.

    However, I don't know if my 23-year-old self would have been at all receptive to anything such an OLD person might have said to me back then.

    At the time, Scientology seemed a way to explore the woo-woo side of life, which interested me a lot. I was entranced and overwhelmed by all the new cultural influences (drugs, Carlos Castaneda books, meditation, Eastern spiritualism, etc.) and rapidly changing Western culture (Vietnam War, continuing civil rights struggles, American cultural and generational clashes).

    Looking back at my life since then, it’s obvious I needed to learn much I did learn while inside Scientology and since leaving it -- and most of that had to do with disagreeing. I don’t know how else I might have learned it -– there was so much to disagree with.

    I was much luckier than many – was never on staff or went into deep debt. The biggest thing I lost while in Scientology was a first husband who was surely the worst person I might have married – so that was a good thing.

    Perhaps I might simply suggest to my younger self: “Learn how to disagree!” because that’s what I needed to know.

    But I acknowledge I have absolutely no idea what I needed to learn that I haven’t learned. I cannot see that.

  14. Moosejewels

    Moosejewels Patron Meritorious

    I was so, sooo, wishing that there was more to existence
    that what I had seen so far in life.

    'nam, etc. etc.

    The con was on, and I bought in to it.

    Moi. Stupid simpleton. Naive raw meat.

    Buddhism is my sanity.

    Simple. Honest.

    'nuff said.
  15. Petey C

    Petey C Silver Meritorious Patron

    Probably nothing would have stopped me from doing the few little courses I did. If I'd stopped there, I would have been fine. What I needed was to be stopped from joining the SO. I think if 1974 me had just gone on trying to pay for auditing and training, she would have just given it up as something too expensive and, ultimately, square and weird.

    Could 2012 me have persuaded 1974 me to hold back? Probably not. But 1983 me probably could have. If I'd met an ex-SO member who had gone through what I was going to go through, I probably would have torn that contract up.

    All this me and her and I is messing with my head! :omg:
  16. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    It doesn't really answer the question asked as such but I have considered this concept before and the bottom line for me is this; if I hadn't done the things I did along the way, I wouldn't have the life I have today.

    I've contemplated some of the possible/potential outcomes of having taken different turns or having trod an alternate path at the various watershed moments in my life and, all in all, I'll take the life I have today over any of the alternatives I can envision, thanks! :)
  17. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    Yes, I could have laid a hand firmly on that younger shoulder and said ''No'' ''You are too naive too young and too talented to through your life down a pseudo-religious toilet. Do your studies, study well, get a practice together and have a good life, this is not for you, it's just bad science fiction.'' I would have listened if it had come with sincerity, it was all I was waiting for, I was having a very long q and a, but there was no information, it felt like a bad thing to do but no one said, ''don't do it!''
  18. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I don't see that it is necessary to avoid the later-in-time experience at all.

    Per Dr. Michael Newton's Life-Between-Lives research (see this little ESMB thread), while in the timeless spirit world and before one splits one's essence in half and the Earthbound part starts to co-exist with a baby, one visits the "Future Lives Viewing Room" or whatever it is called. One gets to view detailed scenes from maybe three different future lives that one can choose from.

    Exactly how this works I have trouble getting my wits around, but that is neither here nor there. The point is that it seems not to be at all unreal to carry "future" experience back in time.

    It could be said that one has *already* had that conversation with a younger self, in that one entered this life already knowing the extent of one's involvement with the cult and *choosing it of one's own free will*.

    (Hey — *I* didn't set it up like that!)

  19. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Unfortunately I can't say the same thing. :(
  20. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Yes, I understand that. It's probably true for many others too.

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