Debbie Cook - the story behind the story
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Karen#1
Gold Meritorious Patron
The reason Marty was not so happy is that he used his blog for fund raising for Debbie.
BUT
When Debbie received high six figures, she did not refund all those who scraped to send her $100 here and $200 there.
With the monies she got, piece of cake to have paid back the well wishers. She won a significant settlement.
Instead most of them got unfriended by her on Facebook, myself included, and I was super generous $$$$$$. But I won't hold it against her. For all I know part of her settlement might have been to unfriend "Apostates" and go live abroad for a while til things cooled down.
Debbie Cook is only person in *history* able to get her INT Base horror stories on video, in a Court of Law which have become the Bible of Int base horrors with ever increasing number of visits on YouTube.
And then after her revelations ~~she gets high six figures from the Cult.
Who can pull THAT off ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg6X1VPgApo
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Sindy
Crusader
I posted the link without comment for a reason. I've been here too long.
I should not have made comments either, I suppose. I wish I had thought this through more and did not react. These people are my friends, our friends, and though I find it disconcerting that I was led to believe something different from what happened at the time and that it seems a bit late in the game to be clearing things up, I don't know all the details and I over-reacted here (like I obviously did when Debbie settled because even then I didn't have all the data -- obviously!).
So (and no I have not spoken with Mike or the Headleys), I would like to clarify that I am not mad, disappointed or judging anyone here. I am just trying to understand and I will only understand by actually talking to the people involved and I really wish I hadn't jumped in here. I should have given it more thought. I'm a blabber mouth but loyalty to my friends is more important to me. We'll see. Sometimes I forget that I'm blabbing out into cyberspace and not in someone's livingroom.
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Sindy
Crusader
I agree Karen. I was in her corner. I wanted to be proud of her and had I known the finer details, I would have escaped some of the uglier thoughts I had but I suppose I'll just take responsibility for assuming then too. I'll have to learn to live with my thoughts for longer than two seconds before I speak. I'm learning.
Mimsey Borogrove
Crusader
I guess, she was on policy, keeping the donos, like any good reg. Where you and the others erred was not submitting a refund routing form to her.
Mimsey
degraded being
Sponsor
I get what you're saying but I think you're stretching it a bit. If you thought something about your friends and now you regret thinking it, Ok. But how are you going to live with yourself having to be so free of "ugly" thoughts when you are deeply interested in the ins and outs of scientology? If it comes to that, even your friends have baggage (ugly baggage) if they were long time servers, masters, enforcers in the notorious scientlogy cult. Debbie said she knows where the bodies are buried, and if she knows so do others. So, forget about how ugly your thoughts are. Reality has been far worse than your thoughts for many people.
BTW, I had a look at Marty's blog from the time of D. Cook's settlement. I looked very very quickly, but Marty was, AFAICS saying that Debbie settling with CoS was the right thing to do, and there was no point in continuing battling them considering the damage they would do to her.
Sindy
Crusader
Oh no, I simply meant that my first line of handling things should not be a message board. That's all. If I go directly to any people I have concerns with and they tell me something I am still disappointed about then I will say so. I just need to know what the full truth is first.
I still feel exactly the same as everything I have said here. There is cognitive dissonance, still. I won't handle that in my mind thru endless speculation. That's all.
Not being twee about this...just conflicted...
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degraded being
Sponsor
Oh no, I simply meant that my first line of handling things should not be a message board. That's all. If I go directly to any people I have concerns with and they tell me something I am still disappointed about then I will say so. I just need to know what the full truth is first.
I still feel exactly the same as everything I have said here. There is cognitive dissonance, still. I won't handle that in my mind thru endless speculation. That's all.
Let me ponder that please....
ILove2Lurk
Lisbeth Salander
I'm feeling the same way. I do remember Marty's equivocation or surprise at the time of the settlement.It all just smacks of a "handling" to me the more I think about it and the more I read others' recollections--as well as remember my own. Why is it always a handling?
Either Marty did a "handling" on us back in 2012 by "strategically uttering upset" over the settlement, or Mike is handling now by saying that both he and Marty urged her to settle all along.
I guess old OSA operatives never truly change all of their spots.
Some of this seems like spin or a move to soften up the crowd to accept more people receiving some "hush money" down the road.
Here's my take, not necessarily about Debbie, . . . but if the shoe fits, it should be worn.
Apparently, there's something that can best be described as "fast flow forgiveness" around the subject of Scientology and its aftermath.
Conspire in major lies and cover-ups for decades that alter people's lives irrevocably, participate in financial fraud to the tune of hundreds of millions, act out like a spiritual terrorist . . . and it looks like once you're done with all your silly "misadventures" of youth, you can simply make a few YouTube videos or blog posts and somehow you're magically absolved of all your sins.
I changed my life materially based on the lies and deceptions Miscavige, Broeker invented (circa 1986 Hubbard's death & later) and Marty and Mike conspired to hide (I'm only presuming) for decades. Does a blog or series of videos by any of them give me my best years back? Or let me have a life redo?
Bernie Madoff conspirators won't get off so easy after their financial greed ruined many lives forever. (A lot of them are in jail already or heading there.)
I've no clue how major ex-scn executives can make up for their lying and real-life financial damages done to some of the families I know.
Like many things in life, it's a murky question. :confused2:
My only point is that I've noticed there's a trend toward "fast flow forgiveness."
Steal hundreds of millions under false pretenses one year . . . a championed smiling whistle blower and blogger the next. Oh, well.
Free pass. No one really held accountable personally or financially in this endeavor. Just move on. Only in Scientology. (OK, Wall Street too.)
Again, it's a murky question. :confused2:
This is just how I feel after devoting my life to all this then finding out about the magnitude of the betrayals and subsequent cover-ups for decades by the high-level people I mentioned . . . and others, if the shoe fits, of course.
I guess my OCA is still low on the free and unbridled "unconditional forgiveness" column.
So be it.
PS: There's some well-known FSMs that are currently so majorly disaffected but still do the work because it's so profitable and where else can they make those big commissions so easily. It's all they know. They're under the radar, of course. Very disturbing to me. How does one possibly do that?
Conspire in major lies and cover-ups for decades that alter people's lives irrevocably, participate in financial fraud to the tune of hundreds of millions, act out like a spiritual terrorist . . . and it looks like once you're done with all your silly "misadventures" of youth, you can simply make a few YouTube videos or blog posts and somehow you're magically absolved of all your sins.
I changed my life materially based on the lies and deceptions Miscavige, Broeker invented (circa 1986 Hubbard's death & later) and Marty and Mike conspired to hide (I'm only presuming) for decades. Does a blog or series of videos by any of them give me my best years back? Or let me have a life redo?
Bernie Madoff conspirators won't get off so easy after their financial greed ruined many lives forever. (A lot of them are in jail already or heading there.)
I've no clue how major ex-scn executives can make up for their lying and real-life financial damages done to some of the families I know.
Like many things in life, it's a murky question. :confused2:
My only point is that I've noticed there's a trend toward "fast flow forgiveness."
Steal hundreds of millions under false pretenses one year . . . a championed smiling whistle blower and blogger the next. Oh, well.
Free pass. No one really held accountable personally or financially in this endeavor. Just move on. Only in Scientology. (OK, Wall Street too.)
Again, it's a murky question. :confused2:
This is just how I feel after devoting my life to all this then finding out about the magnitude of the betrayals and subsequent cover-ups for decades by the high-level people I mentioned . . . and others, if the shoe fits, of course.
I guess my OCA is still low on the free and unbridled "unconditional forgiveness" column.
So be it.
PS: There's some well-known FSMs that are currently so majorly disaffected but still do the work because it's so profitable and where else can they make those big commissions so easily. It's all they know. They're under the radar, of course. Very disturbing to me. How does one possibly do that?
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degraded being
Sponsor
.
.
What Marty said April 2012.
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/scientology-inc-v-debbie-cook-the-end-game/
"...On Debbie and Wayne’s side the only thing to gain was further opportunities for exposure of what has already been exposed; and the potential of an award for their limited counterclaims. The 9 Feb testimony of Debbie was for the most part all that the world at large would be interested in hearing from her.....
"...The cost of creating those few potential future opportunities to air what had already been aired would have been enormous – because Scientology Inc’s patented “punitive defense” technology was already gearing up huge law firms in four states.
‘Punitive defense’ technology includes making the litigation the front and center activity of the defendants’ lives for the rest of their lives, literally. In this case it would have also taken virtually all Independent network energy available for the next several years to sustain the defendants. And that would have required using existing communication channels, including this one, for intensive fund raising; something that would violate the very purpose of at least this communication channel. At best, it would have been a terrible waste of potential energy...
"....Also from my knowledge of the beast, I am fairly confident that part of settlement includes that there will be no future participation of Debbie and Wayne in the Independent movement. If you read my posts on this matter during the first three weeks of January, you’ll understand why I don’t consider that surprising nor alarming.
I thank Wayne and Debbie for having the courage to go through what they did. At the end of the day it will continue to help many others.
Each of you who contributed either monetarily or otherwise are highly commended. I have no regrets for giving up three and one half months of my life to this cause, and I don’t think any one of you should either....."
There is also this (within the same article as the quotes above).
"...Just before I took my leave I informed the defendants and their counsel that in order for settlement to be effectuated Miscavige absolutely would demand a pound of my own flesh in the form of statements from the defendents that he would consider harmful to me. I told them, and Mike Rinder agreed as it might apply to him, that there would be no hard feelings if they simply told Miscavige everything they know about us – just the facts. We have nothing to hide, and only look upon our relationship with Debbie and Wayne as an experience of giving help with no expectation of return. Knowing the history of Miscavige directed Scientology Inc settlements over three decades, I am confident that some exaggeration and manufacturing of fact may have been required. I’m mentioning it in the event the truth wasn’t good enough and you wind up reading something about us from that sector that is less than admirable; you will know the circumstances from which it originates..."
I know they are all the good guys now, but reading that and other stuff I did not quote all I can say is "Thick as thieves"
.
What Marty said April 2012.
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/scientology-inc-v-debbie-cook-the-end-game/
"...On Debbie and Wayne’s side the only thing to gain was further opportunities for exposure of what has already been exposed; and the potential of an award for their limited counterclaims. The 9 Feb testimony of Debbie was for the most part all that the world at large would be interested in hearing from her.....
"...The cost of creating those few potential future opportunities to air what had already been aired would have been enormous – because Scientology Inc’s patented “punitive defense” technology was already gearing up huge law firms in four states.
‘Punitive defense’ technology includes making the litigation the front and center activity of the defendants’ lives for the rest of their lives, literally. In this case it would have also taken virtually all Independent network energy available for the next several years to sustain the defendants. And that would have required using existing communication channels, including this one, for intensive fund raising; something that would violate the very purpose of at least this communication channel. At best, it would have been a terrible waste of potential energy...
"....Also from my knowledge of the beast, I am fairly confident that part of settlement includes that there will be no future participation of Debbie and Wayne in the Independent movement. If you read my posts on this matter during the first three weeks of January, you’ll understand why I don’t consider that surprising nor alarming.
I thank Wayne and Debbie for having the courage to go through what they did. At the end of the day it will continue to help many others.
Each of you who contributed either monetarily or otherwise are highly commended. I have no regrets for giving up three and one half months of my life to this cause, and I don’t think any one of you should either....."
There is also this (within the same article as the quotes above).
"...Just before I took my leave I informed the defendants and their counsel that in order for settlement to be effectuated Miscavige absolutely would demand a pound of my own flesh in the form of statements from the defendents that he would consider harmful to me. I told them, and Mike Rinder agreed as it might apply to him, that there would be no hard feelings if they simply told Miscavige everything they know about us – just the facts. We have nothing to hide, and only look upon our relationship with Debbie and Wayne as an experience of giving help with no expectation of return. Knowing the history of Miscavige directed Scientology Inc settlements over three decades, I am confident that some exaggeration and manufacturing of fact may have been required. I’m mentioning it in the event the truth wasn’t good enough and you wind up reading something about us from that sector that is less than admirable; you will know the circumstances from which it originates..."
I know they are all the good guys now, but reading that and other stuff I did not quote all I can say is "Thick as thieves"
Leland
Crusader
I'm feeling the same way. I do remember Marty's equivocation or surprise at the time of the settlement.
Some of this seems like spin or a move to soften up the crowd to accept more people receiving some "hush money" down the road.
Here's my take, not necessarily about Debbie, . . . but if the shoe fits, it should be worn.
Apparently, there's something that can best be described as "fast flow forgiveness" around the subject of Scientology and its aftermath.
Conspire in major lies and cover-ups for decades that alter people's lives irrevocably, participate in financial fraud to the tune of hundreds of millions, act out like a spiritual terrorist . . . and it looks like once you're done with all your silly "misadventures" of youth, you can simply make a few YouTube videos or blog posts and somehow you're magically absolved of all your sins.
I changed my life materially based on the lies and deceptions Miscavige, Broeker invented (circa 1986 Hubbard's death & later) and Marty and Mike conspired to hide (I'm only presuming) for decades. Does a blog or series of videos by any of them give me my best years back? Or let me have a life redo?
Bernie Madoff conspirators won't get off so easy after their financial greed ruined many lives forever. (A lot of them are in jail already or heading there.)
I've no clue how major ex-scn executives can make up for their lying and real-life financial damages done to some of the families I know.
Like many things in life, it's a murky question. :confused2:
My only point is that I've noticed there's a trend toward "fast flow forgiveness."
Steal hundreds of millions under false pretenses one year . . . a championed smiling whistle blower and blogger the next. Oh, well.
Free pass. No one really held accountable personally or financially in this endeavor. Just move on. Only in Scientology. (OK, Wall Street too.)
Again, it's a murky question. :confused2:
This is just how I feel after devoting my life to all this then finding out about the magnitude of the betrayals and subsequent cover-ups for decades by the high-level people I mentioned . . . and others, if the shoe fits, of course.
I guess my OCA is still low on the free and unbridled "unconditional forgiveness" column.
So be it.
PS: There's some well-known FSMs that are currently so majorly disaffected but still do the work because it's so profitable and where else can they make those big commissions so easily. It's all they know. They're under the radar, of course. Very disturbing to me. How does one possibly do that?
Who else....of the "big fish" variety has taken a payoff? And if not a payoff....a settlement that requires do dialog about the Cult?
It seems ......only if one was a big fish....big exec....would the Cult even bother ......?
degraded being
Sponsor
Little fish squeak get steamroller.
Big fish squeak get steamroller.
Big fish with balls get big steamroller.
Big fish with balls and dirt get payout and gag.
Big fish with big balls and big dirt get big payout and big gag.
Absolutely. What I keep underestimating is that Mike and Marty were essentially still (are?) decompressing albeit in a very very public manner.
My view is that Debbie was in a corner, wasn't especially happy to be associating with Mike and Marty, but realised that they had experience she needed as far as how to deal with the church, keeping in mind that she said she didn't know much about her constitutional rights.
But what I didn't like about the whole Debbie Cook scenario was the theme that the,'enemy of my enemy is my friend...'
Love the explanation though Degraded Being. Thank you!
Debbie's lawsuit is unusual because it involves a plaintiff (Co$) dropping the complaint and paying the defendant. Debbie didn't have to counter sue to get the money.
I believe Mike R. said in his blog that he didn't know any of the details of the settlement, but it's about 99% certain that Co$ had to pay Ray Jeffrey. Anytime you sue someone and lose, the judge usually awards attorney's fees to the defendant. I know Co$ didn't technically lose, but they dropped the complaint.
I question why Debbie agreed to be gagged. It was like the Co$ went through this exercise to reinforce the previous nondisclosure. I believe that is what Co$ was really after, to silence Debbie, and they wouldn't budge on this issue as a condition of dropping the lawsuit.
I believe Mike R. said in his blog that he didn't know any of the details of the settlement, but it's about 99% certain that Co$ had to pay Ray Jeffrey. Anytime you sue someone and lose, the judge usually awards attorney's fees to the defendant. I know Co$ didn't technically lose, but they dropped the complaint.
I question why Debbie agreed to be gagged. It was like the Co$ went through this exercise to reinforce the previous nondisclosure. I believe that is what Co$ was really after, to silence Debbie, and they wouldn't budge on this issue as a condition of dropping the lawsuit.
La La Lou Lou
Crusader
Whatever she was sitting on must have been really good, earth shatteringly good, would have closed the whole thing down, good. By paying her off the cherch was saying, ''yes we are guilty now take the legally binding gagging order and be nice''. All we have to do is to find the truth she was paid to shut up about.
Lone Star
Crusader
Ah yes the truth. The noble truth. The elusive truth. Pontius Pilate reportedly asked, "What is truth?" Later he ceremoniously washed his hands.
A question.....Do the two Ms know the same truths?
Another question....Were they also afraid of the truth?
Bodies buried and such.
(Pssst.....take the settlement and sign the gag agreement)
degraded being
Sponsor
Ah yes the truth. The noble truth. The elusive truth. Pontius Pilate reportedly asked, "What is truth?" Later he ceremoniously washed his hands.
A question.....Do the two Ms know the same truths?
Another question....Were they also afraid of the truth?
Bodies buried and such.
(Pssst.....take the settlement and sign the gag agreement)
I am not sure this quote from Marty is exactly referring to the same nasty things you are, LS, or other nasty things ---but FWIW:
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/scientology-inc-v-debbie-cook-the-end-game/
"...I have certain obligations of discretion given my role on the legal team. However, I am letting David Miscavige know right here and now that should the slightest twist of truth be published and attributed to the defendants, the gloves will come off – and I will fill the world in on the details of what really went down in technicolor..."
degraded being
Sponsor
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/scientology-inc-v-debbie-cook-the-end-game/
"...Because of the nature of the beast, I am not in a position to know all the details of the confidential settlement. I had to bow out in order for it to materialize. I demanded to be satisfied on one score before taking my leave from the process: a guarantee that nothing would be agreed upon that would detract from or nullify the accomplishment of the 9/10 Feb Battle of San Antonio..."
Lone Star
Crusader
I guess my post did refer to some potential nastiness. But, it was all in the form of questions. Not accusations. Just questions I had waking up. Pre-coffee questions. LOL...
Of course the thing to keep in mind, speaking to myself mostly here, is that Debbie, Marty and Mike are all human. And, if I had walked in their shoes all those years who am I to really say that I might have done anything differently? Handling the after-cult situation, that is.
Human failings aside, all three have done a lot of good and I commend them for it. Scientology is...well...there's nothing else like it. What a tangled web. Most of us are still pulling that sticky web shit off. Marty, Mike and Debbie are as well.
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Churchill
Gold Meritorious Patron
..
Well, it sounds like you need a comforting thought. Here's one. . .
Think of all the Scientologists who worked and slaved and borrowed and put themselves in deep debt and bankruptcy in order to donate money to the IAS. Let's say 50 different Scientologists donating an avg. of $50,000 each ($ 2.5M)
And think of that $2.5M going into the IAS' bank account.
Then later we follow the $2.5M as it is paid to Debbie Cook. So that she will not tell the incriminating and devastating secrets that she knows about how Scientology cons, coerces and defrauds Scientologists out of their money for the IAS hoax.
Meanwhile, those donating Scientologists are still deeply in debt, paying on 2nd and 3rd mortgages, trying to take solace in the idea that they have attained the status of "HUMANITARIAN".
But their "humanitarian" sacrifice is in Debbie Cook's bank account and she is using the money to buy expensive clothes, cars, real estate and jewelry.
Scientology: It's kind of confusing until you realize that it is only made up of 2 things. Lies and money. The Scientologist pays the 2nd one (money) for the first one (lies). And occasionally (when there is a legal settlement for Scientology's crimes) the COS pays the 2nd one (money) for silence about the first one (lies).
Feel better? LOL
Yes. A very refreshing post! Thanks for putting it into its proper perspective, IMO.
The enormous legal footbullet that resulted from the CO$ suit against Debbie Cook may well be responsible for the absence of legal attacks against the books, documentaries, and other expose's of Scientologys abuses in the past few years. One more reason to thank Debbie Cook.
It's something to consider.
Also, expecting consistency over a period of time as one's views are evolving, may be, I think, a bit unrealistic. It requires a more nuanced, less absolutist understanding, if you know what I mean.
