My username is why I joined!

[curiouser]

I have never been a Scientologist, nor do I know any. Cults I know; I live near one of the 'ground zero's of the cult the Duggars are in, and have helped countless kids establish their lives as adults, I've made them HS transcripts, helped them learn to make their way in the big bad world, get jobs & driver's licenses, etc. Heartbreaking stuff. I'll always have a soft spot for kids who are victimized by cults and I hate when I can only read about kids in danger like this, when I don't know how to help or stop it.

I am naive, I admit. But I feel like this is a huge, under served area that people like me can somehow help the ones who want to escape. (Is "escape" the right word?)

Can I ask questions about what I've read about Scientology, that I don't understand?

(oh, BTW. I read as a lurker that non Scientologists are welcome here. Great!! Then the random question is impossibly difficult!

'What is the technical "Mecca" of Scientology called?"

"I have no idea" wasn't an answer it accepted, nor was "The center for technological perfection". It took me lots of Googling & trying out different things to get the right answer, whew! Why ask such an incredibly hard question, that essentially weeds out all the non Scio background people, if non scio people are welcome here?

Ok, back to why I'm here. I've read about the young people who sign 'billion year work contracts' and that concerns me. I've read they are worked like slaves for almost nothing per hour, and fed nothing but beans and rice. How is this legal? Even if someone signs their life away to an employer, Federal minimum wage is just that- a Federally mandated amount an employer must pay (right?) I have experience in management, and I'd get in trouble if I hired people and paid them less than min wage- even if the employee said I could. How do the Scios get away with it? Even if they have the local police in their pocket, they don't have the U.S. Dept of Labor on their payroll as well, do they? Even if they are annoying with their frivolous lawsuits, this is wrong and everyone who is party to this abuse should be behind bars as well as pay back pay for all the billions of hours they have already worked people.

Do these indentured servants/ slaves live in Scio buildings? I can't see how they could afford to pay rent otherwise. Are they ever allowed to leave, or are they held captive?

There are groups like the (I don't want to list the name of the one I proudly support) that rescues women & kids from sex trafficking. They are completely independent, so not corrupted by bribes, political influence, insiders with contacts in Scientology, etc. I'm sure other groups like that exist too- would it do any good to contact a group like that to investigate, hopefully raid the compound and rescue people and free them from the Scio "jail" (can't remember what it's called)? Have any federal agencies ever been asked to investigate? Why are so many kids still being molested and their minds raped by this cult?

Can anyone do anything to help the ones who want to get out? The ones who don't want to be rescued, can't be rescued, but it seems like there are tons of kids being forced to leave school early and spend their lives working for Scios, who would have a tough time getting a job in the real world if they ever did escape, due to their lack of education- again, completely illegal. How can the minors and the adults who changed their minds be led to freedom?

How can people help?

 

[Jump]

​

They get away with it mainly because they are disguised as a religion .. there are other reasons.

​

 

[ThetanExterior]

Welcome to the forum.

I assume they get round the labor laws because the people are "religious volunteers" not employees.

Also, they are usually not being held against their will. They are mind-controlled so that they believe if scientology is punishing them it is because they deserve it. The FBI have already investigated scientology and chickened-out of doing anything about it. All of this information is available on the internet.

 

[Knows]

Scientology is copying other religions to make it look legit to the poor victims of this evil cult.

The Mecca of Scientology is FLAG and we call it the Fraud Scam Base....the Mecca of technical extortion, bribery, money laundering, fraud, deceit, manipulation and other sordid crimes.

FLAG is where the cult members learn their craft - How To Lie to others and themselves.

 

[Enthetan]

The main chain which holds these people in, is the fear of expulsion from Scientology. If a person suddenly decided that he no longer cared about remaining in Scientology, then for the most part he could just walk away.

The additional chain is that, for long-time Scientologists, any attachments to any non-Scientologists have been systematically removed. If they leave Scientology, then all Scientologists are required to shun them. The second generation people especially would have no place to go: no work skills or job history applicable to the non-Scientology world, no credit history, no high school diploma. They could leave, but to where?

 

[Swundel]

As a fellow never-in, the entrance questions were pretty easy. I think I even answered more than 1 because of some technical problems.
All it takes is a couple of years of Scientology-watching.

The reason they are like that, though, I think is more to do with bots. Your average bot will absolutely not know the name of the 'mecca' of Scientology.

I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong, though!

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

Sea Org crew live in Church owned "berthing" both on and off base. For single staff they may live in extremely crowded conditions, 3 military bunks stacked 3 high as many as will fit in a room. Married couples get their own room so this can be a significant factor in the motivation to get married.

The IRS decision to grant tax exempt religious status apparently constitutes an exemption from Federal and State labour laws. However, these working conditions existed long before the 1993 IRS decision. Around 1977 all Sea Org crew were required to complete a quickie religious course and become ordained as ministers. This was part of the religious cloaking strategy but the Church also wanted staff excluded from the draft. Perhaps the government has a tacit policy of respecting an exemption from labour laws even if an organization simply refers to itself as a church or religion. Clearly the government is part of the problem and it is important to note that the US government has a vested interest in exporting it's version of religious freedom to other countries through the State Department and Congressional act.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...tion-Act-of-2015-S-1798&p=1061559#post1061559

As an aside, all Scientologists do a "communication" drill where they repeat phrases from Alice in Wonderland. Your nom de plume will remind everyone of this:

http://www.instinct.org/texts/bluesky/bs4-4.htm

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Swiss]Mother,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Swiss]Do you recall talking to me about WW III - and where it would start if it were to start - father and most everyone else maintained that it would start in either China or Russia vs. U.S. and you said - oh no- it would originate in Germany - that the Nazis hadn't given up yet - ? Well babe, you were right - there is a new Nazi resurgence taking place in Germany - so now it's a race between the good guys in the white hats (Scientologists) [sic] and the Leipzig death camp (Nazis) [sic] the bad guys in the black hats - we'll win of course - but the game is exciting. Truth is stranger than fiction. As Alice [in Wonderland] says "Things get curiouser and curiouser!" Get into Scientology now. It's fantastic. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Swiss]Love, Susan[/FONT]
​

 

[ThetanExterior]

(oh, BTW. I read as a lurker that non Scientologists are welcome here. Great!! Then the random question is impossibly difficult!

'What is the technical "Mecca" of Scientology called?"

"I have no idea" wasn't an answer it accepted, nor was "The center for technological perfection". It took me lots of Googling & trying out different things to get the right answer, whew! Why ask such an incredibly hard question, that essentially weeds out all the non Scio background people, if non scio people are welcome here?

If you really want to know why this question was asked then you should contact the moderators. I didn't even know people had to answer a question to join. Maybe that's a new thing.:confused2:

 

[phenomanon]

I have never been a Scientologist, nor do I know any. Cults I know; I live near one of the 'ground zero's of the cult the Duggars are in, and have helped countless kids establish their lives as adults, I've made them HS transcripts, helped them learn to make their way in the big bad world, get jobs & driver's licenses, etc. Heartbreaking stuff. I'll always have a soft spot for kids who are victimized by cults and I hate when I can only read about kids in danger like this, when I don't know how to help or stop it.

I am naive, I admit. But I feel like this is a huge, under served area that people like me can somehow help the ones who want to escape. (Is "escape" the right word?)

Can I ask questions about what I've read about Scientology, that I don't understand?

(oh, BTW. I read as a lurker that non Scientologists are welcome here. Great!! Then the random question is impossibly difficult!

'What is the technical "Mecca" of Scientology called?"

"I have no idea" wasn't an answer it accepted, nor was "The center for technological perfection". It took me lots of Googling & trying out different things to get the right answer, whew! Why ask such an incredibly hard question, that essentially weeds out all the non Scio background people, if non scio people are welcome here?

Ok, back to why I'm here. I've read about the young people who sign 'billion year work contracts' and that concerns me. I've read they are worked like slaves for almost nothing per hour, and fed nothing but beans and rice. How is this legal? Even if someone signs their life away to an employer, Federal minimum wage is just that- a Federally mandated amount an employer must pay (right?) I have experience in management, and I'd get in trouble if I hired people and paid them less than min wage- even if the employee said I could. How do the Scios get away with it? Even if they have the local police in their pocket, they don't have the U.S. Dept of Labor on their payroll as well, do they? Even if they are annoying with their frivolous lawsuits, this is wrong and everyone who is party to this abuse should be behind bars as well as pay back pay for all the billions of hours they have already worked people.

Do these indentured servants/ slaves live in Scio buildings? I can't see how they could afford to pay rent otherwise. Are they ever allowed to leave, or are they held captive?

There are groups like the (I don't want to list the name of the one I proudly support) that rescues women & kids from sex trafficking. They are completely independent, so not corrupted by bribes, political influence, insiders with contacts in Scientology, etc. I'm sure other groups like that exist too- would it do any good to contact a group like that to investigate, hopefully raid the compound and rescue people and free them from the Scio "jail" (can't remember what it's called)? Have any federal agencies ever been asked to investigate? Why are so many kids still being molested and their minds raped by this cult?

Can anyone do anything to help the ones who want to get out? The ones who don't want to be rescued, can't be rescued, but it seems like there are tons of kids being forced to leave school early and spend their lives working for Scios, who would have a tough time getting a job in the real world if they ever did escape, due to their lack of education- again, completely illegal. How can the minors and the adults who changed their minds be led to freedom?

How can people help?

Because they masquerade as a Religion, is how they 'get away' with most of the abuse. They call it Scripture, their "sacred Scripture", and these kids are "volunteer", or the children of others who have vowed to help Scn 'save the planet'.

We are so glad that you have come here to find a way to help these kids transition out of the "Clusterfuck".

phen

 

[phenomanon]

If you really want to know why this question was asked then you should contact the moderators. I didn't even know people had to answer a question to join. Maybe that's a new thing.:confused2:

When I first began to post here , I was asked when DMSMH was first published. So asking a question isn't that new, and it's just to weed out 'bots'.

 

[Terril park]

When I first began to post here , I was asked when DMSMH was first published. So asking a question isn't that new, and it's just to weed out 'bots'.

Weird weedkiller. BOTs would know the answer.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

.

The main chain which holds these people in, is the fear of expulsion from Scientology. If a person suddenly decided that he no longer cared about remaining in Scientology, then for the most part he could just walk away.

It reminds me of the joke about the man with the carnival whose job it was to clean up the smelly bucketloads of prolific elephant dung. A passerby, who saw him hip-deep in the excrement, asked, “My good man, how can you put up with such demeaning conditions? Haven’t you ever thought about another line of work?” To which the carnival worker replied, “What—and give up show business?”

It reminds me of the joke about the man with the Sea Org, an executive whose job it was to clean up the smelly bucketloads of prolific LRH bombast, broken promises & bullshit. A passerby, who saw him hip-deep in trying to handle entheta, law suits, destroyed lives, RPF, being fair gamed and shitty results asked, “My good man, how can you put up with such demeaning conditions? Haven’t you ever thought about another line of work?” To which the loyal officer replied, “What—and give up Total Freedom?”

 

[curiouser]

Thanks all, I appreciate the answers!

I know the adults who want to stay can't be rescued- they'll fight for their right to stay. But their kids are being deprived an education and worse. Are the kids also forced to work? CA changed their laws for home schooling, making it much more strict- I wonder if Co$ is considered a private school- even so, they surely have to meet state minimum requirements- ISTEP or something. (don't they??)

It floors me how many federal laws they are able to skirt by being a "church", but I think education (especially in the state of CA) must be a different playing field. There has got to be a way to at least stop the kids from being victimized!

This is so incredibly sad. Seems like no one can do anything about any of it, even though everyone knows it's wrong and evil. It hurts to accept this.

Thanks again, all

 

[curiouser]

The second generation people especially would have no place to go: no work skills or job history applicable to the non-Scientology world, no credit history, no high school diploma. They could leave, but to where?

THIS is exactly the scenario with kids from the Duggard cult. All they need is someone to make them a HS transcript that follows the HS graduation requirements of their state. Spin real life experience into class credits, whip one up on a spreadsheet & send them an electronic version, and there you go. They have just become a graduate of home school high. This alone boosts their self confidence ENORMOUSLY! They suddenly realize they aren't stupid, with no hope for a future- they CAN make it through life without the help of the cult.

It's not impossible for a recent HS grad to land a job- employers don't expect much in the way of work experience. The Duggar cult teaches girls nothing but how to run a house and be a mommy to the 47 kids God will "bless" her with if she's good & submissive to her husband, college isn't a priority even for males, they push "apprenticeships" for them, working for other cult people (which is why all the Duggar boys, including the chomo whatshisface have weird jobs- car lot salesman and the like.) Basically no one in that cult is educated either. They can read & write, (and do home ec if they are a girl lol) but that's about it. Tons and tons and tons of entry level, service based jobs exist, and all cult kids are well qualified for many of them.

So obviously the HS transcript it's possible to whip together for them isn't a college bound or honors one, but every state does have a 'career track' diploma, for special needs kids, kids with low college entrance aptitude, etc- but it's as legit as a HS diploma- it shows how they've completed the state requirements- so it's also better than a GED.

This is a real way to help someone escape- give them something on paper showing they earned a HS diploma, show them how to fill out a job application, help them get them a learner's permit & teach them to drive, and while their life may not include a 6 figure salary someday, they'll definitely be able to support themselves. If the gov can't/ won't help, we have to.

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

Thanks all, I appreciate the answers!

I know the adults who want to stay can't be rescued- they'll fight for their right to stay. But their kids are being deprived an education and worse. Are the kids also forced to work? CA changed their laws for home schooling, making it much more strict- I wonder if Co$ is considered a private school- even so, they surely have to meet state minimum requirements- ISTEP or something. (don't they??)

It floors me how many federal laws they are able to skirt by being a "church", but I think education (especially in the state of CA) must be a different playing field. There has got to be a way to at least stop the kids from being victimized!

This is so incredibly sad. Seems like no one can do anything about any of it, even though everyone knows it's wrong and evil. It hurts to accept this.

Thanks again, all

Children are sent to a Scio affiliated GED mill as I recall. After that it's all Scientology unless there is a special reason someone needs to study some wog tech for post or a project. LRH did absolutely study wog books and he ordered people to use them for a particular purpose. I would love to see some ex-Messengers put together a list of these.

This is something that always bothered me. LRH boasted about how he was an expert in so many subjects, yet Sea Org members were expected to deny themselves the same opportunity in order to pursue his goals. Extracurricular activities and even reading non-Scio material could be frowned upon as detracting from planetary clearing. Decades ago, I think people joining the SO were often, not always, already very well educated or skilled in some field. The Mission network was often located near colleges and served as a feeder (albeit not always intentionally) of fairly high quality recruits to the SO. The Mission network is pretty well decimated though so they must look elsewhere, such as 2nd and 3rd generation children. One weakness with later generations could be a lack of broader reading due to social networking, video games, etc. Or maybe that constitutes a vacuum ripe for Scientology to fill. On the other hand, earlier generations may have been more work oriented and more accepting of the constant emergency environment whereas later generations may have more of a problem being converted into workaholics.

However, LRH didn't like problem staff and the offloading of people who didn't perform or had issues was encouraged in his day. Over time the qualifications became increasingly strict. I think between the inability to retain people and the desire to recruit quality slaves - they have made the process of routing out so restrictive that it seems to have become almost prison like.

It is an interesting and complicated subject.

 

[Hypatia]

I have never been a Scientologist, nor do I know any. Cults I know; I live near one of the 'ground zero's of the cult the Duggars are in, and have helped countless kids establish their lives as adults, I've made them HS transcripts, helped them learn to make their way in the big bad world, get jobs & driver's licenses, etc. Heartbreaking stuff. I'll always have a soft spot for kids who are victimized by cults and I hate when I can only read about kids in danger like this, when I don't know how to help or stop it.

I am naive, I admit. But I feel like this is a huge, under served area that people like me can somehow help the ones who want to escape. (Is "escape" the right word?)

Can I ask questions about what I've read about Scientology, that I don't understand?

(oh, BTW. I read as a lurker that non Scientologists are welcome here. Great!! Then the random question is impossibly difficult!

'What is the technical "Mecca" of Scientology called?"

"I have no idea" wasn't an answer it accepted, nor was "The center for technological perfection". It took me lots of Googling & trying out different things to get the right answer, whew! Why ask such an incredibly hard question, that essentially weeds out all the non Scio background people, if non scio people are welcome here?

Ok, back to why I'm here. I've read about the young people who sign 'billion year work contracts' and that concerns me. I've read they are worked like slaves for almost nothing per hour, and fed nothing but beans and rice. How is this legal? Even if someone signs their life away to an employer, Federal minimum wage is just that- a Federally mandated amount an employer must pay (right?) I have experience in management, and I'd get in trouble if I hired people and paid them less than min wage- even if the employee said I could. How do the Scios get away with it? Even if they have the local police in their pocket, they don't have the U.S. Dept of Labor on their payroll as well, do they? Even if they are annoying with their frivolous lawsuits, this is wrong and everyone who is party to this abuse should be behind bars as well as pay back pay for all the billions of hours they have already worked people.

Do these indentured servants/ slaves live in Scio buildings? I can't see how they could afford to pay rent otherwise. Are they ever allowed to leave, or are they held captive?

There are groups like the (I don't want to list the name of the one I proudly support) that rescues women & kids from sex trafficking. They are completely independent, so not corrupted by bribes, political influence, insiders with contacts in Scientology, etc. I'm sure other groups like that exist too- would it do any good to contact a group like that to investigate, hopefully raid the compound and rescue people and free them from the Scio "jail" (can't remember what it's called)? Have any federal agencies ever been asked to investigate? Why are so many kids still being molested and their minds raped by this cult?

Can anyone do anything to help the ones who want to get out? The ones who don't want to be rescued, can't be rescued, but it seems like there are tons of kids being forced to leave school early and spend their lives working for Scios, who would have a tough time getting a job in the real world if they ever did escape, due to their lack of education- again, completely illegal. How can the minors and the adults who changed their minds be led to freedom?

How can people help?

The billion year contracts are for Sea Organization members only. And, yes, they do live there and it is slavery.

As former S.O. members like Matt Pesch have said, anyone successfully contacting any S.O. member to help or ask if they're ok, will be told everything's fine.

People who leave the Sea Org do so after a last straw situation. We need to be there for those who have left. People like Leah Remini and Mike Rinder are peerless in this regard. They've got a great network of contacts.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Children are sent to a Scio affiliated GED mill as I recall. After that it's all Scientology unless there is a special reason someone needs to study some wog tech for post or a project. LRH did absolutely study wog books and he ordered people to use them for a particular purpose. I would love to see some ex-Messengers put together a list of these.

This is something that always bothered me. LRH boasted about how he was an expert in so many subjects, yet Sea Org members were expected to deny themselves the same opportunity in order to pursue his goals. Extracurricular activities and even reading non-Scio material could be frowned upon as detracting from planetary clearing. Decades ago, I think people joining the SO were often, not always, already very well educated or skilled in some field. The Mission network was often located near colleges and served as a feeder (albeit not always intentionally) of fairly high quality recruits to the SO. The Mission network is pretty well decimated though so they must look elsewhere, such as 2nd and 3rd generation children. One weakness with later generations could be a lack of broader reading due to social networking, video games, etc. Or maybe that constitutes a vacuum ripe for Scientology to fill. On the other hand, earlier generations may have been more work oriented and more accepting of the constant emergency environment whereas later generations may have more of a problem being converted into workaholics.

However, LRH didn't like problem staff and the offloading of people who didn't perform or had issues was encouraged in his day. Over time the qualifications became increasingly strict. I think between the inability to retain people and the desire to recruit quality slaves - they have made the process of routing out so restrictive that it seems to have become almost prison like.

It is an interesting and complicated subject.

Yes, I remember that Ray Kemp was so trusted by the US Navy that they let him run a branch of their cadets. It's difficult to believe that any current member of the SO would be granted an honour like that.

 

[Hypatia]

Weird weedkiller. BOTs would know the answer.

Not an AI type bot. I think that the question was equivalent to a captcha code. One is proving one isn't a computer.

 

[Terril park]

Not an AI type bot. I think that the question was equivalent to a captcha code. One is proving one isn't a computer.

I assumed Phenom was referring to OSA BOTs.