Clay Pigeon
Gold Meritorious Patron
He said nothing of any paper chase when I worked with him.
Tales of recent years suggest they might have tried to revive an old account but I wouldn't know
The Phoenix Lectures
- Thread starter Clay Pigeon
- Start date
He said nothing of any paper chase when I worked with him.
Tales of recent years suggest they might have tried to revive an old account but I wouldn't know
Free Being Me
Crusader
Defending abuses and trying to minimize them, especially child abuse in or out $cientology is just fucking deranged. That's not "weird" as Emma puts it, it's a blatant immoral heartless disregard of those victimized with outrageous trolling. Why Emma is letting you post here again is incomprehensibly gob-smacking.
Clay Pigeon
Gold Meritorious Patron
I don't suppose you ever actually read anything I write FBM but I have reported on this board that Greg Wilhere, brother of my three sons mother and for decades one of the top half dozen sea org executives is a person I hold personally culpable of the wrongful DEATH of my beautiful bright first born son, nor have I seen my other two sons for thirtyseven years
YOU
are heartless
not I
Free Being Me
Crusader
Given your tenuous relationship with morality and objective reality within your post history Commander Birdsong, I don't have the faintest clue as to whether that story is true, which seems ironic since you're expecting compassion yet you couldn't give a shit less about the abuses then $cios, now Ex's have endured. I would be more inclined to at least give you the benefit of the doubt but when you dismiss Elcon's & $cientology's abuses regularly as you have before and are starting up again, I don't believe anything you say you seeing nothing more than crocodile tears as an excuse to be here furthering your pro-Elcon trolling agenda.
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Clay Pigeon
Gold Meritorious Patron
My bright beautiful firstborn son suffered a wrongful death
Derek Green was unharmed
If Co$ takes a beautiful woman and pimps her as a whore
Why should you complain that I make a good nurse of her?
And if you might take a brief moment from your busy schedule to mull it over in your mind (such as it is) although you might feel yourself justified in doubting the veracity of someone who speaks of the wrongful death of his don't you think it politic to refrain in case you are in error?
Derek Green was unharmed
If Co$ takes a beautiful woman and pimps her as a whore
Why should you complain that I make a good nurse of her?
And if you might take a brief moment from your busy schedule to mull it over in your mind (such as it is) although you might feel yourself justified in doubting the veracity of someone who speaks of the wrongful death of his don't you think it politic to refrain in case you are in error?
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
I was joking Birdie ... trying to lighten things up a bit (and I can't promise not to do it again).
TheOriginalBigBlue
Gold Meritorious Patron
(Bold red mine)
See, this is where you lost me. A Scientologist's interpretation of harm can't be trusted to be rational and that is either a deliberate and direct result of Scientology or the nature of people who become Scientologists and stay Scientologists after they should know better.
Did you see Derek being locked up and not do anything? I saw people being kept on the RPF's RPF's RPF in the basement under an R ordered mission and I was shocked by what I saw but I still did nothing. As I now reflect on my experiences as a Scientologist that is one of the visuals that best encapsulates Scientology for me, probably much like Derek was for Hana, and I find the most disturbing aspect of it was my own lack of response.
It is good to hear these things expressed on the forum though. As I've said, people need to understand how Scientologists think, not so much what they think.
Free Being Me
Crusader
Thanks for proving my point.
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
Emphasis mine in the above post.
Back in the 50's/60's and even the 70's and 80's people were very different ... hubbard was a novelty and a clever con artist in a time when people in general were much less suspicious and far less savvy ... apparently some of them were also "looking for something" and when he turned up spouting his nonsense he was a novelty, he only really had to thoroughly suck in a few and they then did the work for him (as we all well know).
I would never have called him enigmatic ... he was an extremely unattractive (to the point of being repulsive) salesman, who fell on his feet due to the timing.
Lucky, observant and cunning is what he was and willing to constantly push the boundaries to see how far he could take it.
Nowadays even very young people would see him coming from a mile off but back in the day many people were gullible and easily tricked.
It's almost 2018 now though ... time to stop living in the past and face facts perhaps?
What was done to that poor little boy (by hubbard and his parents!) was PURE EVIL, nothing more and nothing less and you do not know whether he was harmed or not ... you do NOT lock a child up in a chain locker (or anywhere else) for any reason or any length of time.
Get a grip.
lotus
stubborn rebel sheep!
lotus
stubborn rebel sheep!
I can't believe such an obvious issue must be again and again and again explained...
I can't believe in 2017, people must educate others on the basis of suffering resulting from childhood traumas...and Hubtard cruelty and harm done to kids. (ex: being locked in a chain locker room..a place any adults would also be traumatised to be locked there)
WTF ????
It's always the same...when we encounter complacency about LRH evil and cruelty, (hubbardites) we always encounter a lack of empathy and compassion..especially about the suffering and traumas purposely inflicted to small kids in $cientology, per Hisself orders and cruelty.
How can some people remain so disconnected from their soul and heart ????
Cognitive dissonance ?????
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ThetanExterior
Gold Meritorious Patron
Hubbard wasn't just cruel to other people's kids. Look at the things he did to his own - Katherine, Nibs, Alexis, Quentin. The latest episode of Aftermath describes what a despicable person he was.
The Life and Lies of L. Ron Hubbard: https://rutube.ru/video/07991218516d986c0f805f6531668a06/?pl_id=1306538&pl_type=user
The Life and Lies of L. Ron Hubbard: https://rutube.ru/video/07991218516d986c0f805f6531668a06/?pl_id=1306538&pl_type=user
Veda
Sponsor
Hubbard institutionalized child abuse in Scientology, starting in 1961. This began as psychological abuse and progressed to combined psychological and physical abuse.
The list of destroyed lives of those who were subject to this is long, but indefinite, since one of Hubbard's routine practices was destruction of evidence and cover up, plus intimidation - and, if necessary, destruction - of witnesses.
One of the saddest sights is victims of Hubbard who still defend and even revere Hubbard. Such people can sometimes be found pushing shopping carts down Hollywood Boulevard.
_____
Any child six through twelve is eligible for a Standard Hubbard Security Check for children, which is guaranteed to make a cooperative, and small, but very smooth, ball bearing out of any unruly child, plus possibly provide potential blackmail on mommy and daddy.
HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO BULLETIN OF 21 SEPTEMBER 1961
SECURITY CHECK CHILDREN, ages 6 - 12
After the age of 12, a child is regarded as an adult and given an adult Security Check.
"It's the sensible thing to do."
And if a child is a "down stat" after joining the Sea Org, well, there's a remedy for that too.
L. Ron Hubbard established the Children's RPF in 1976:
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Veda
Sponsor
A small sampling of some of the adult Security Check questions:
Have you ever had anything to do with pornography?
Have you ever practiced homosexuality?
Have you ever exhibited yourself sexually?
Have you ever practiced sodomy?
Have you ever made a practice of having sex with a member of your own sex?
Do you collect sexual objects?
Have you ever practiced masturbation?
Have you ever had any unkind thoughts
about L. Ron Hubbard?
George Layton
Silver Meritorious Patron
It really must have been of great benefit to you yourself if it can bring you to a place in your mind that it was worth it even if children had to be put in chain lockers to further the research.
George Layton
Silver Meritorious Patron
You have almost turned your son's death into a promotion of the body of works by hubbard and those others he gathered to help build while decrying the fact that that very body of works will bring about a state of mind that will allow a person to justify harm done to children. Who knows what Wilhere was thinking or the story behind that but it may have been along the lines of, "So he put a child in a chain locker for a couple days, no harm done."
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
..
Just catching up on this thread. . .
It reminds me of the sad cruel hoax of Scientology, in this way--that Scientologists are never really aware of the fact that their life is being ruined, due to all the celebratory noise, success stories and wins swirling around them.
The essential problem is that the "wins" are not really wins at all. They are typically devastating losses awaiting them just ahead on their "time track".
WOG example: A person is buzzed out of their minds, at the greatest party in their life. They've never felt happier! A few hours later their drunkenness causes a severe accident where they killed another person and lost their own legs.
SCN example: A person is elated out of their minds, having donated a million dollars to save the planet. They've never felt happier! A few months or years later their koolaid intoxication causes a severe financial meltdown where they go bankrupt and lose their car, home and business.
Scientologists are deceived by the wins promised by L. Ron Hubbard.
Scientologists are deceived by the wins being given by other Clears & OTs.
Scientologists deceive themselves about their own wins.
It all ends badly. Scientologists just don't know it yet.
The "knowing how to know" people are always the last to know.
.
Just catching up on this thread. . .
It reminds me of the sad cruel hoax of Scientology, in this way--that Scientologists are never really aware of the fact that their life is being ruined, due to all the celebratory noise, success stories and wins swirling around them.
The essential problem is that the "wins" are not really wins at all. They are typically devastating losses awaiting them just ahead on their "time track".
WOG example: A person is buzzed out of their minds, at the greatest party in their life. They've never felt happier! A few hours later their drunkenness causes a severe accident where they killed another person and lost their own legs.
SCN example: A person is elated out of their minds, having donated a million dollars to save the planet. They've never felt happier! A few months or years later their koolaid intoxication causes a severe financial meltdown where they go bankrupt and lose their car, home and business.
Scientologists are deceived by the wins promised by L. Ron Hubbard.
Scientologists are deceived by the wins being given by other Clears & OTs.
Scientologists deceive themselves about their own wins.
It all ends badly. Scientologists just don't know it yet.
The "knowing how to know" people are always the last to know.
.
Clay Pigeon
Gold Meritorious Patron
Hey thanks Tobbit
No I didn't see anything near that at FCDC which was a "Sea Org org". The closest was when Expanded Dianetics was released as a special service for Continental orgs. Foxy Rebecca Sweigart and I were chosen to be the first two XD auditors and her first PC got a refund. A "chain locker" was set up with a rusty chain she was put in "liability" and it was her task to take a wire brush to it. I wasn't crazy about that but I said nothing, after all it was harsh but far short of odious.
And then!
Two days later a bright lively Svensk Sea Ogre named Ulf Rehnquist showed up from New York and canceled our dinky little chain locker and apologized to the assembled staff for it having happened in the first place.
'Twas different 'round my way back in the day my friend...
Clay Pigeon
Gold Meritorious Patron
I can't believe such an obvious issue must be again and again and again explained...
I can't believe in 2017, people must educate others on the basis of suffering resulting from childhood traumas...and Hubtard cruelty and harm done to kids. (ex: being locked in a chain locker room..a place any adults would also be traumatised to be locked there)
WTF ????
It's always the same...when we encounter complacency about LRH evil and cruelty, (hubbardites) we always encounter a lack of empathy and compassion..especially about the suffering and traumas purposely inflicted to small kids in $cientology, per Hisself orders and cruelty.
How can some people remain so disconnected from their soul and heart ????
Cognitive dissonance ?????
Please...
I certainly don't endorse putting children in chain lockers
Nor do I endorse labeling Elron a sociopath.
The story of the deaf mute girl is more pejorative than Derek Greene. She was locked up five days. Then some good woman on board learned of it and grabbed Johnny Mac to take a look. They went to the Old Man and he said...
"O God!
I didn't know.
Well get her out."
And then I presume he just turned back to whatever he was doing without giving it a second thought.
I'm very pleased to hear of him making appeal to That Which Is Greater Than Ourselves and giving his personal endorsement to standards which we share with him.
I do not begrudge him his many real or apparent flaws and faux pas.
A steel mill has a slag heap lying beside it. The steel produced has been shipped out and the slag remains.
I've made some damn good use of that steel. One of the people I've counseled was a chopper pilot in Vietnam shot down and captured who spent three and one half years in the Hanoi Hilton. He has false teeth. He left his own there. He said the interrogators were very skilled at keeping the nerve of each tooth alive for a loooooong time. There were some other interesting tales I'd be reticent to repeat.
Clay Pigeon
Gold Meritorious Patron
Pure evil?
My word ITYIWT you must have lived a wonderfully sheltered life.
Benjamin Spock produced a watershed change in child rearing for the post war babyboomers
Are you in any way aware of how commonly serious corporal punishment was inflicted on children both privately and in public schools? Large numbers of Elron's contemporaries would not even consider locking a child up for two days to be child abuse
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