Scientology security kills man with sword

[programmer_guy]

A nutcase in Hollywood? That's crazytalk.

 

[Thrak]

Here's a story that's not just a clone of the other ones.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-scientology24-2008nov24,0,6552577.story

 

[Thrak]

I doubt this story will have any legs though. Approaching a man with a gun wielding swords is just a dramatic form of suicide.

 

[Lohan2008]

ty

Here's a story that's not just a clone of the other ones.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-scientology24-2008nov24,0,6552577.story

ty, for article
wonder what pushed the victim over the edge?

 

[programmer_guy]

I doubt this story will have any legs though. Approaching a man with a gun wielding swords is just a dramatic form of suicide.

Yeah... I was thinking the same thing... suicide by security guard.

 

[Thrak]

The only thing that could give it a little legs would be if he were ex staff or had family in or something like that. If there is no connection of the guy to the church then it will be just a minor embarrassment.

 

[Lohan2008]

LA news

so who is the independent news service in LA?
it's 5.30 pm there (right?), the news will not have time to run story??

 

[programmer_guy]

so who is the independent news service in LA?
it's 5.30 pm there (right?), the news will not have time to run story??

I think that it will be in the newspapers tomorrow. i just hope that it is not front page.

 

[FoTi]

I think that it will be in the newspapers tomorrow. i just hope that it is not front page.

Why do you hope it is not front page?

 

[Kha Khan]

This could be the biggest "footbullet" ever...if substianted. Thoughts?

Absolutely not. See below.

but the first note is that it is very evident that to be on Scientology property, is a danger

Yes, to "be on Scientology property is a danger"... if one is wielding two samurai swords.

Gun vs sword. Does that sound a little uneven to anyone?

If someone aggressively approaches me wielding two samurai swords and gets "close enough to hurt" me, I shoot them. Multiple times.

Did the guard give a warning or even shoot to disable?

Deputy Chief Terry S. Hara said the man wielding the two samurai swords "was 'close enough to hurt them' when the guard fired." Under those circumstances, NOBODY is going to fire warning shots. Nobody.

Also, NOBODY who is taught to fire a weapon in self defense (e.g., in law enforcement, the military, etc.) is taught to "shoot to disable." Nobody. To "shoot to disable" is to shoot to miss. EVERYBODY is taught to shoot for the center of mass -- i.e., the center of the chest.

But one thing is clear, the CoS is rattled and more prepared than ever to deal severely with any perceived threat. The eyes of the world will be on them now, they will have to be very careful.

Actually, the eyes of the world will be on the Critics and Anons now. All available evidence is that this was a justified shooting. Given that, the public will perceive that, yes, the Church of Scientology does have a right to fear physical violence from its critics. [Oh, and by the way, some of the Critics' comments on this thread are not helping matters.]

That he would shoot a person without a struggle is suspect.

You do not wait to struggle with the suspect when they are armed with not one, but two edged weapons. Not when you armed with a firearm. Unless you are stupid.

It sounds like a preemtive fair-game.

Only if you are so biased against Scientology that you are unable or unwilling to consider the evidence.

Should the security guard have deliberately shot to disable? I don't know.

Again, as noted above, Nobody who is taught to fire a weapon in self defense (e.g., in law enforcement, the military, etc.) is taught to "shoot to disable." Nobody. To "shoot to disable" is to shoot to miss. Everybody is taught to shoot for the center of mass -- i.e., the center of the chest.

So, anyone care to take bets that the cameras that are always trained on the outside of the Celeb Center will either be non-functioning, or there will be a "delay" in getting them?

I'll take that bet given the fact that the LAPD has already reviewed the tapes.

I'm sorry to be a hard ass about this, but I'm disappointed by some of the reactions to this story. Some (but not all) of the reactions have three things in common. They are:

1) Morally reprehensible.
2) Stupid.
3) Bad from the standpoint of public relations. In other words, they make "critics" look like a bunch of paranoid, foaming at the mouth idiots so biased by their hatred of Scientology that they completely ignore all available evidence.

Anyone who thinks this is a footbullet for the COS is delusional. Anyone who doesn't realize that, fairly or unfairly, this is a major potential problem for Critics and Anons isn't thinking.

You think this incident won't be on the minds of law enforcement personnel that next time there is a protest, and particularly one that gets heated? You think this won't be presented, and won't be on the judge's mind, the next time there is a request for a restraining order?

I'll say it again. Some of the critics' comments on this thread are not helping matters.

I would hope that others will join me in condemning what appears, based on the presently available evidence and information, to have been a violent, physical assault on members of the Church of Scientology, and perhaps the Church itself.

I would hope that others will join me in making it clear that we do not support, and are in no way associated with, the attacker or the means he used to express whatever grievance he may have had.

I would hope that others will join me in making it clear that, whatever grievances the attacker may have had, his resort to violence is unacceptable and we condemn it.

 

[programmer_guy]

Previous statement

Why do you hope it is not front page?

I hate seeing this type of stuff happen because I just wonder if a lot of ignorant people are going to think that CofS is nothing more than a quirky religion that is a poor victim of a lot of nutcases worldwide. IMO, nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Lohan2008]

critics

kha Khan, people speculate when they dont have info...
in lack of news people spread rumor and gossip, it is human nature
both Anon and CoS froth at the mouth at times

 

[Lohan2008]

msn

that took ages for news to go to international news on msn
12.05 local time

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=670827

 

[FinallyMe]

Wrong dates

Where are the reporters getting their dates? The first stories say that the Church of Scientology was started in 1945 ??????

The later story states that the Church aimed the Celebrity Center building at celebrities 39 years ago - that would be 1969 ????

 

[Lee_from_phx]

Someone mentioned shooting to disable.

You never do that.

You shoot to kill or you don't shoot at all.

The reason is that you don't shoot unless YOUR life is in danger.

If these guys are ex LAPD as some have suggested, then that is the way they would operate.

I have not seen this tape, so I don't know if they acted properly or not. I don't know who the would-be swordmaster was and I don't know what he was trying to do. Was he suicidal and wanted to give the cult some bad publicity on his way out? Was he lost and just trying to find the home of the guy who polishes his swords? Was he a complete nutjob who thought that the rondroids would be able to use the swords to cut out body thetans?

There is no telling at this point.

Given that there IS a tape, unless the clams are capable of some pretty fancy CGI on short notice, I'm certain that the truth will come out and justice will be done.

 

[programmer_guy]

Where are the reporters getting their dates? The first stories say that the Church of Scientology was started in 1945 ??????

The later story states that the Church aimed the Celebrity Center building at celebrities 39 years ago - that would be 1969 ????

Yeah, Scientology was started way back by L. Ron Hubbard.

Yeah, Scientology geared up to get celebrities "in" quite some time after that. However the old original Celebrity Center in L.A. was not located in the same building where it is now. Where it is now used to be called "The Manor" that was a Scientology hotel where Scientologists could stay while they were doing auditing or training in various Scientology organizations in the L.A. area - like, AOLA, L.A. org, ASHO.

 

[Lohan2008]

dates

Where are the reporters getting their dates? The first stories say that the Church of Scientology was started in 1945 ??????

The later story states that the Church aimed the Celebrity Center building at celebrities 39 years ago - that would be 1969 ????

from the reporters supplied by the Church

 

[thetanic]

Someone mentioned shooting to disable.

You never do that.

You shoot to kill or you don't shoot at all.

I was trained to shoot by ex-secret service, and he pointed out that shooting to the center of mass wouldn't always kill, but you were most likely to get the shot. It's really only in a sniper situation that you'd be shooting for other body parts. Otherwise you go for the big stuff.

 

[klidov]

I was trained to shoot by ex-secret service, and he pointed out that shooting to the center of mass wouldn't always kill, but you were most likely to get the shot. It's really only in a sniper situation that you'd be shooting for other body parts. Otherwise you go for the big stuff.

I was trained to shoot by a retired Police Officer, (and a former Spetznas).

Both trained me the same way:

1) don't pull your weapon unless you are going to use it

and

2) if you're going to use it, kill them.

End of story.

 

[TheSneakster]

KCAL9 (CBS Local) version.

Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
I am *not* anonymous