The Mayo Challenge

[VaD]

I am so new here, and I can not expose who I am, so I am at a disadvantage, none the less this thread hit me and I must comment

These are the concerns the OP brought up in me. I made them questions as Emma asked.

I wish I could have spent more time on this post.

David.

1. Do you still believe in body thetans, from one of your posts it looks not?

2. If you do not believe n BT’s, when did you realize this, and how do you feel about the effect of running these processes on people, how detrimental is the action.

3. Do you not feel some responsibility; given it looks like you were a big factor in the creation of NOTs.

4. I ran a lot of past track, a lot, and I feel this has been the most traumatic thing for me to confront at this time “case wise” as separate from the betrayal, can you advise me on this?

I am definitely not a plant, I am someone floundering in the backwash of having been a very committed Scio, and the OP opened up all those wounds that are festering.

I have a responsibility to the people I brought in or convinced to stay in. I have apologized profusely to the only person I am able to at this time, there will be more of that later.

I believe all of us exes are guilty of promoting the cult to some degree or another and I definitely am. Some of us are more culpable than others to the degree that we knew it was not what it claimed and yet we kept on promoting and supporting. Maybe the original poster is upset because of this, or maybe he is a plant, I have no idea, but I know at this point in time I can relate to what he said.

I could never condemn you David without condemning myself as I am culpable of this for at least 3 years and 50 people. I am working now so I can handle what will come to pass when I out myself. I wish I was stronger, alas I am not.

5. David, how culpable are you?

Finally, and maybe this should have been first. Welcome David and Julie, I am quite glad you are here and I hope your being here makes it easier for people who are lurking and searching to find the answers they need to know the truth about Scientology and how to recover. I am one of them and that is why I have asked these questions.


Good day.


Ethicsbait.

Purple Rain, you can digress anytime as far as I am concerned.

I had the same reading as you trouble.

I think it was a good post you made.

There're lots of good info.

As far as "questions" - it would be hard even for me to answer those.

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

It's easy to revise your views regarding what you were doing, later. Was "creating the cult" what you thought you were doing at that time? I doubt it. Did your actions contribute to Hubbard's (and his successors) efforts to "create the cult"? Probably.

I'd suggest that people who are feeling major guilt about helping to create the cult, or supporting the cult, take a look at that as a possible "wrong indication". Unless it was your knowing intent to help create a cult, I would say characterizing it that way is a good way of dragging yourself through the mud

I, for one, wasn't trying to "create a cult". Whenever the thought that this might be the case entered my mind, it was deeply troubling. HCO and Qual did their best (and later OSA as well) to disabuse me of this notion, but my concern about it being a cult kept coming back! To Scientologists, this meant I was "in doubt", perhaps having accepted an "enemy line" from "suppressive persons". Once I became alarmed that my own sense that "something was wrong" was being eroded, rather than addressed, I jettisoned.

Did you stay in after your alarms went off? Does this make you more complicit? Perhaps. Don't accept other people's (or even your own) "wrong indications" about it, though. Guilt is a dandy trap, but I'd rather play tennis.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger here pal!

It was David Mayo who asked earlier on this thread how we felt he had contributed to creating a cult.

I have A LOT of answers.

I will give them.

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

We all helped ("create the cult", too)

I can see that Mayo was a major player there.

- Well, he's now here. He speaks. He feels responsible for the thing he's helped to create. - Why keep pointing fingers at him?

I'm responsible for being a part of Gold (with it's releases after 1997). - Are you gonna shoot me for being a part of Gold? Or May be Marc Headley? Or Jeff Hawkins? Or many others who were all participants in the scheme?

It takes soul and power to forgive to get over all those "mishappenstances" that took place.

Ditto to what I said above.

Right now there's a difference between us.

You and I BOTH have admitted that we contributed to perpetuating a cult.

David Mayo denies this.

This is what he wrote: "I acknowledge that you are right in that I worked in a cult that was destructive in some ways but I don't agree that it was only destructive. It was also constructive in some ways. While it is true that I worked in it, it is not true that I 'helped create the cult ...' But tell me how you think I may have done that? and what you think I should have done?

I am willing to listen to what you have to say. And I may learn from it."

He asked - I'm going to answer.

Time for tough love.

 

[VaD]

Ditto to what I said above.

Right now there's a difference between us.

You and I BOTH have admitted that we contributed to perpetuating a cult.

David Mayo denies this.

Time for tough love.

I haven't heard a word from him where he "denied it"

 

[uniquemand]

Hey, don't shoot the messenger here pal!

It was David Mayo who asked earlier on this thread how we felt he had contributed to creating a cult.

I have A LOT of answers.

I will give them.

Actually, it wasn't Mayo that started this thread.

Feel free to give your answers. Please don't tell me, or anyone else (including David) what their answers should be.

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

While it is true that I worked in it, it is not true that I 'helped create the cult ...' But tell me how you think I may have done that? and what you think I should have done?

I am willing to listen to what you have to say. And I may learn from it.

David

Good enough for you Vlad?

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

Actually, it wasn't Mayo that started this thread.

Feel free to give your answers. Please don't tell me, or anyone else (including David) what their answers should be.

I edited my post to reflect that Mayo made the statement earlier in the thread, but not as the OP.

I havn't told you anything, except that I will answer David's question.

 

[VaD]

...

 

[VaD]

If two people drink coffee, and they both like it, they create some kind of a cult.:
-when third one joins then he's either in or out (either he's with them, or he's against them)

 

[AnonKat]

If you were the DM that took over things would have been different.

I acknowledge that you are right in that I worked in a cult that was destructive in some ways but I don't agree that it was only destructive. It was also constructive in some ways. While it is true that I worked in it, it is not true that I 'helped create the cult ...' But tell me how you think I may have done that? and what you think I should have done?

I am willing to listen to what you have to say. And I may learn from it.

David

 

[uniquemand]

Agreement doesn't create or constitute a cult. Try again.

 

[VaD]

Agreement doesn't create or constitute a cult. Try again.

Agreement has nothing to do with how things really are. - Try again.

 

[uniquemand]

VaD, did I say that agreement had something to do with how things really are?

I recommend a short nap.

 

[Mest Lover]

Trust in Emma, she has stated all the different verifications on this one and she is satisfied. Let Mr. Mayo enjoy ESMB without all the flack of paranoia.

He need not prove anything.

 

[Lulu Belle]

I've been thinking of a time way back in around 1987. An old friend, named Johnny, (real name),

Schlessinger?

 

[VaD]

Trust in Emma, she has stated all the different verifications on this one and she is satisfied. Let Mr. Mayo enjoy ESMB without all the flack of paranoia.

He need not prove anything.

- They don't need to prove ANYTHING.

 

[justsayin']

another thread for the grudge bin. pointing fingers solves nothing.

 

[VaD]

another thread for the grudge bin. pointing fingers solves nothing.

It should have been there from the start.

 

[TheRealNoUser]

When I joined ESMB I took the name literally. It is apparent that it is a misnomer. I did not realise at first but it seems that most, if not all, of you are still Scientologists. I am not.

When I originally left I was of the belief that it was just the current management that were altering the subject. But there are many different levels of "out", just as there are different levels of being "in" (ie The Bridge). I get the impression that most of the people here are still on the step where you believe the subject is salvageable, and that once Miscavige is gone all will be rosy once again, and you can go skipping down the lane holding hands.

I am all the way out. I completely and utterly despise Scientology, and I will do everything that I can do to cause its destruction.

I am not looking to repackage it, or reform it. In my opinion there are no redeemable factors in the subject. It is rotten to the core. Anything "good" about it was simply a means to an end for the creators of Scientology, and was used as a piece of bait at the end of the fishing line to reel in the big fish. It's all about money. Scientology does not care about people, and it breeds that mentality in its senior members. Once financially used up people are cast aside like a vampire does with its victim. Next.

The theetie-weetie message from Julie Mayo has no impact on me. It is just a thinly-veiled attempt to get me to reveal my identity. Read it again. Why would she want me to do that? That factor alone is the biggest red flag about her intentions. Scientologists are masterful manipulators of people's emotions, and she has got you all swooning over her (probably made-up) little story about the friend who betrayed her. So what.

The big question is: Why is her husband and herself coming forward right now with their names exposed? What is their agenda?
I know there has to be one, and I suspect that it is because the official CoS is finally cracking at the seams. All of the senior execs who have bailed like Rinder and Rathbun and are setting up shop for the Game Of The Century... "Mmm Hmm, we need to be in on this action".

Money.

As for all of you gathering around Mayo to protect him, that is pathetic. He has probably done more of "The Bridge" than any of you, including all the OT Levels. He is supposed to be a powerhouse of a being. And you are all upset because of my words? I mean c'mon ! The way you are all acting - it is as if I have attacked little 5-year old Suzie Cottonbritches in the playground and I'm punching her senseless. You are all gathering around in defense.

This is a grown man who helped create the most destructive cult on the planet, and my words are hurting him? Give me a break.

I guess time will show what his agenda is.

P.S. Yes, Voltaire. I have had this moniker for over a decade.

 

[justsayin']

It should have been there from the start.

agreed.