”Evaluation” and ”Invalidation”

[uniquemand]

I think when people first disagreed with the Catholic Church they were killed. Then after enough people got killed and there were enough dissenters they stopped killing non Catholic conformists. When there were enough Protestants to protect themselves the killing stopped.

And yet, the Church has NEVER been held accountable for the killing, the raping of children, the seizure of lands, the forcible detention and torture of philosophical dissenters, etc.

This is what is needed: Transparency and Accountability. Anything less is a failure, IMO, of our society to deal with threats to its members.

 

[Adam7986]

• I always thought that Evaluation is when someone says “The reason that you are afraid of water is because your mother beat you in the bathtub”

He does not know why you are afraid of water. So in this case I would not welcome the other person’s evaluation.

• Invalidation is when you say “I am afraid of dogs because I once was bitten by a dog” and someone says “No that cannot be the reason”

Again in this case I would not welcome the invalidation of my subjective feeling that I knew why I was afraid of dogs.

• In your case when you told your father that his asthma was proof that he did not get what was promised was not invalidation nor evaluation.

It was a factual comparison of what Hubbard promised to what was delivered and has nothing to do with his case. So this was neither invalidation nor evaluation.

• Now if he said “I feel better after doing OT3 “and you said “No you don’t” well that would be invalidation because how he feels is his own SUBJECTIVE REALITY.

• If he said “My white blood cell count came down after doing OT” and you said “ Did you take a blood test?” and he said “No”. That is not eval or inval because you are challenging facts.

• If someone says “Praying to Jesus makes me feel better” and someone else says “That can’t be possible” that is invalidating a “subjective reality” and in my opinion everyone has the right to his own subjective reality.

• However if you were just having a discussion about the subject “Are there such things as body thetans or not”. I think that is just a discussion and if both of you want to have that discussion then that is OK. But you can’t force someone to have that conversation if they don’t want to.

• It would be like going up to a Christian and saying “Jesus did not die for your sins”. No one asked you. But if they do ask you or if they try to convert you first then they started the discussion and anything you say is not an invalidation but rather a discussion of ideas.

So I think the idea of “not evaluating or invalidating” only have merit in the subjective world of personal feelings and emotions not in the world of facts.

Scientologists apply inval/eval to everything because it is easy and they don’t have to think.

Thank you. This is completely on topic.

Scientologists do apply to everything because that is the way it is intended to be by Hubbard..everything in scientology is subjective. this is why the religion is so dangerous. This is that ”dedicated glare” that Hubbard spoke of. Its total delusion. So much so that when scientologists find the tech doesn't work, they blame it on the leaders and not on the tech itself.

invalidation and evaluation are examples of techniques that Hubbard installed in his following as a defense mechanism to keep them forever faithful.

Ask a scientologist if you are losing weight and they will ask you if you feel like you are losing weight rather than answer the question because to a scientologist there is no objective truth.

Coming to grips with the fact that scientology does not have the answers that it claims to have is one of the hardest things I have had to do.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

..

Originally Posted by Infinite
ORLY - what is the current church doing that L Ron Hubbard did not design or envision?

There is only one (1) thing that L. Ron Hubbard did not design or envision.

That the successor to his con game would not be as covert as the Founder in regards to hiding Scientology's crush regging, criminal ops, fraud, cruelty, lack of results, sadism, donation scams, disconnection, fair game and other financial raping of parishioners.

I don't see that COB is any better or worse than Hubbard. Hubbard was constantly shuffling around money-making schemes , Grade Chart and technical "discoveries" to cover up the most recently failed miracle breakthrough. COB has certainly continued in that tradition, in accordance with Hubbard's design and vision.

 

[SpecialFrog]

Given the fact that he specifically forbade sec checks on the OT levels, given the fact that he repeatedly said no one but him could edit out stuff in his books, given the fact that he said "no more drills", yeah, I do envision that.

Okay, here's a rephrased question. Is there anything Miscavige has done that would have been surprising behavior from the Ol' Man himself?

Ideal Orgs / Super Power? The history of the mission networks showed his willingness to get other people to pay for stuff that he could then take over.

As I understand it, the evidence is that he was interested in the short term money he got by selling the franchises as much as anything else from the missions. Not to mention the ongoing gouging of the missions to pay for their own financial inspections, Sea Org visits, etc.

So I don't see that it would be out of character for him to get Scientologists to buy a bunch of buildings and hand the deeds over to him if he thought he could get away with it.

Ditto any changes to the bridge. He understood the importance of keeping people from reaching the end of the maze and realizing there was no cheese.

Miscavige is a squirrel because Hubbard didn't explicitly give him permission to do these things though he could very well have done the same thing and it would inherently not be squirrelling.

 

[Claire Swazey]

The Idle Org scam doesn't surprise me one whit. It's interesting to speculate what LRH would do with that were he still around AND at the helm.

I think it could have gone either way. I think LRH was greedy. I remember seeing some tape of a show from the 60s where he's really weird and evasive about Swiss bank accounts. However, it is my personal speculation- and only that- that DM surpassed LRH in greed and brutality. Understand this- I am not giving Hubbard a pass. Hubbard is the guy who, after all, presided over some HUGE price increases and was still alive when the IAS was founded, I believe, which cost WAY more to join than the old HASI or whatever it was. Hubbard is the guy who asked for an RPF to be created and then an RPF's RPF- that last of which I find more appalling than almost anything.

I know that in the past, people have opined that I'm one of those who think the problem's all DM, etc etc. However, that opinion does not correlate or correspond to ANYTHING I've said or done on the 'net or thought since I left Cof$. It is NOT my stance.

But, that being said, my speculation is that DM is worse.

And certainly he did some "tech" type stuff that Hubbard specifically forbade. Now as to abuses of staff and policy? Yes, the framework was already set in place for those to happen- by Hubbard.

 

[Claire Swazey]

Murder

I also believe that DM had Hubbard murdered. Again, pure speculation.

 

[SpecialFrog]

But, that being said, my speculation is that DM is worse.

Quite possibly. He's certainly much stupider and less creative.

Hubbard might have found better ways to keep milking his flock without resorting to overt cash grabs as much as Miscavige has.

Likewise, Hubbard seems to have been more aware of the overall mood in Scientology and knew when he needed to at least give the appearance of righting past wrongs.

 

[Infinite]

Given the fact that he specifically forbade sec checks on the OT levels, given the fact that he repeatedly said no one but him could edit out stuff in his books, given the fact that he said "no more drills", yeah, I do envision that.

Gosh! By the sounds of it, the old fella will hardly recognise his cult when he gets back from target two. Just as well Miscavige has kept the bit about auditing leading to duplicated Xenu otherwise he'd be completely lost. L Ron Hubbard has certainly got his work cut out for him getting things back to [STRIKE]normal[/STRIKE] how they were. Plenty of "evaluating" and "invalidating" will, no doubt, need to be done.

 

[Panda Termint]

You said that as if it might actually happen. Watch South Park again!