ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

20 Scilons Descend Upon Marty's Home To Recover Scn Escapee

Discussion in 'MartyWorld' started by Alanzo, Apr 29, 2010.

View Users: View Users
  1. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    I think you're right in every detail.
  2. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    Where does Marty fit into all this? I think Marty is to David as David was to Hubbard. Marty could have waited if David was closer to the end of his life as Hubbard was; but the situation here is different.

    Obviously, Marty has no illusions about David. And I don’t think Marty has any illusions about Hubbard either. But Marty sees value in Scientology and got alarmed at Scientology being destroyed so rapidly under David.

    Something like Scientology cannot be destroyed easily even when totally mismanaged as David seems to have been doing since he took over. David is no different from Hubbard in wanting admiration for himself through shock and awe. He wants to step into the shoes that Hubbard left, but, unfortunately, he is too small for them. So, he has been simply cannibalizing on Hubbard’s credit that still exists out there. But there is simply no satisfaction for him… He is eternally miserable… more than Hubbard was.

    Now Marty knows this. Marty is also smart enough not wanting to simply cannibalize on Hubbard’s credit. He wants to benefit from the Scientology business, but knows that he cannot do it if Scientology is gone. He wants Scientology to last longer, at least, for his lifetime.

    Now, I don’t think Marty is that much into admiration through shock and awe. He doesn’t need to be. He can secure a lot of admiration by simply saving Scientology. He is not as much corrupted as David since he was not close to Hubbard or on his lines. That reminds me of the influence the ring of the Hobbit had on whomsoever possessed it. Marty never possessed the ring, so he is not that far gone. David has become Gollum.

  3. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    I think your evaluation is spot-on. LRH at the end was completely in the power of Pat and David, and he knew the game was over for him.

    Rather than "not caring about a will", though, he knew that any will that did not name his keepers as his heirs would be destroyed, and any will which DID name his keepers as his heirs would seal his doom. Taking your eval to its logical conclusion, why would somebody who had no love or respect for the cranky old man bother to keep him alive past the point where his usefulness had ended, and enough preps had been made that he could be disposed of conveniently? Especially when we know that DM is a complete sociopath?

    Once they were able to reliably forge his handwriting, and once they had a compliant coroner who would go along with immediate cremation without autopsy, LRH's continuing to breathe would become inconvenient.
  4. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader

    maybe they just were not murderers
  5. Kha Khan

    Kha Khan Patron Meritorious

    JB (John Brousseau)

    It appears we have the name of the escapee: JB (John Brousseau).

    From Marty - To LRH he was JB:
    WWP Post: JB (John Brousseau)

  6. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    Thanks for that info Kha Khan. :) Just fyi tho, someone already posted the info a few posts ago! :thumbsup:
  7. Lohan2008

    Lohan2008 Gold Meritorious Patron


    Can anyone confirm whether JB has blown?
  8. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Yes. I can also confirm that the sky is blue and that the sun came up this morning. :)
  9. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster Guest

    If Texas has "Sunshine Laws" (requiring release of public documents), then it shouldn't be too hard to obtain copies of the police report for this part of the overall incident. Mr. Brousseau would have been required to identify himself, confirm that he was fleeing from the cult, confirm that he was seeking refuge/sanctuary with Marty Rathbun, etc.

    Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
    I am *not* anonymous. I *do* forgive.
  10. RolandRB

    RolandRB Rest in Peace

    I think Rat'n Rind are preferable to DM and if DM were pushed out and replaced by Rat'n Rind then there would be a revival of fortunes of the Church of Scientology. But this is saying a lot when you consider the nature of Rinder and Rathbun. Rinder, as head of OSA, did nastier things than DM is being criticised for now. OK, he isn't slapping people and making them play musical chairs but he has broken up many families. That people feel sorry for the treatment he is getting now is to me laughable. He deserves what he is getting plus a lot, lot more. It speaks volumes about DM that Rinder is prefered to DM. And as for Rathbun, then with his technical knowledge and experience with Scientology then he must know that although the "tech" might help some people then overall it was never what it was claimed to be. A Clear is no better than a wog and worse still, he is "at risk" and must move on the OT3. And an OT3 is no better than a wog because they too are "at risk" and must move on up to OT5. And I am sure that Rathbun has worked out that telepathically auditing your space cooties is of no real benefit. And as for the cognition on OT8 that "now I know who I am not and am interested to find out who I am" then any fool can see that the reason they thought of themselves as a different person was the absurdity of accepting what they were told in that they were full of space cooties "body thetans" so this is a negative gain. Most wogs do not think they are somebody else and get on with their lives so by that argument they are better off than OT8s. Add to this the Introspection Rundown (better known as the Lisa McPherson Rundown) which must be obvious to anyone is there to threaten and silence those who start to doubt about the usefulness of paying vast sums of money for "auditing" and dare to voice their opinion. Any fool can see that the tech is overall dangerous, false and harmful. Marty Rathbun must see this from his perspective and yet there he is pretending everything is rosy with Scientology apart from DM.

    I hope both of those scumbags meet up with an accident. I'd rather DM stayed there and finished destroying Scientology. If he can stay until the end of 2010 then I think the job is as good as done.
  11. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation


    That would work HH and perhaps "IT'S OVER" for the sequel ... ESMB could do the soundtrack for it based on this version of "its over" by the wonderful Mr Caine (worth a listen just for the last line BTW) ...


  12. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Not necessarily. Hubbard was just getting old and was finalizing his affairs. He wanted to avoid subpoenas, stay out of courtrooms, and gather under his control as much money as possible.

    There was nothing "crazy" about Hubbard following through with his life's plan to build monuments to himself and preserve his name for "10,000 years."

    Legal trusts were established to do just that - if not for "10,000 years," at least for a very long time. There is much talk of Hubbard's will having been changed at he last minute, but most of it wasn't changed. Hubbard's plan was in place and has been implemented.

    Hubbard's ordering of the 1982 looting of the Missions was a systematic "money-getting"-operation. If anything was his final act, that was it. This may have seemed crazy to Scientologists who assumed that Scientology was primarily about helping people and spirituality, but they assumed wrongly.

    Hubbard succeeded in "smashing" his "name into history" and preserving it in "hard granite." He established a cult, based on the "psychological-political" model , with cultists who identified him, his name, and his writings with their and Mankind's "survival."

    The ultimate victory was and is the existence of Hubbard fan(atics) that continue to function as (granted, sometimes PR-coated) Hubbard fan(atics) even without the enforcement of an organization ("even if all the books are destroyed," etc.)

    How long these folks - and others like them - will be around is any one's guess.
  13. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    The technology of Scientology is something else. It came out as an effort by Hubbard to handle his own case. He used the world as a laboratory for no one else. He used it for himself.

    Hubbard went to all the best sources that he could find. He got a lot out of them, but he could never handle the core of his case. Ultimately, he went to Buddhism, which could have handled the core of his case, but he denied that knowledge to himself. He disagreed with the key point of Buddhism – Nirvana, because that meant giving up his lust, his cravings, his individuality. Instead, he turned around and made individuality the cornerstone of his philosophy and developed OT levels. This was 180 degree turn around from Buddhism.

    Basically, when Hubbard came face to face with his core aberration, his attachment to it was just too much. He could not give it up. And to make himself right he had to experiment with others to prove himself right. But what he ended up producing were bloated and status happy egos in himself and others.

    Between heaven and hell, good and evil, sanity and insanity, there is only a hair’s breadth separation.

    I never did OT levels, but I studied them until I satisfied myself of what they really are. There is nothing new in OT levels. One is running the same lower level processes again but not on himself. He is running them again and again on an endless number of BTs.

    But where is any sense in all this? It starts to make sense when you see that one is now running one’s own case but on a via. One is running one’s own case thinking that it is not one’s own case that one is running. Xenu’s incident is nothing but an attempt to run Dianetics on a via. Basic-basic was conceived to be some sort of an explosion.

    Why is this deception there? For Hubbard, this was not deception. It was simply an effort to approximate Buddha’s technique of “look without thinking, experience without resisting,” while maintaining one’s individuality. Hubbard was terrified of losing his individuality. To him, losing his individuality meant the alternative of becoming one with the universe, which he hated. He didn’t realize that the universe was also extinguished in Nirvana, as it was simply a dichotomy of individuality. He missed that one… “individuality –universe” is a dichotomy.

    The Bridge should have ended with OT III, but it didn’t because the results were not there, and so we see just a confused effort beyond OT III by a confused Hubbard. NOTs is simply an expansion of running Dianetics on a via. The results available from NOTs are no different from the results available on lower-level Dianetics when run with “look without thinking, experience without resisting” approach. That is what I did without knowing I was doing that having brought up with an eastern upbringing.

    OT levels served Hubbard in other ways too. It provided an explanation for his almost defunct theory of “Clear.” (It didn’t really.) It provided him another way to keep on making money to boost up his individuality further. (He must have been amazed at the gullibility of others.) But the little that worked under this big long and drawn out show was Buddha’s principles of “look without thinking, experience without resisting.”

    Marty’s job in keeping Scientology going won’t be that easy as there is a lot more competition to Scientology now. Mental technology has been advancing rapidly. We now have idenics, Metapychology, Knowledgism, etc., out there. Besides all of Scientology technology is available outside the Church. Now that the failures of tech cannot be protected through the suppression of criticism, the bubble of the invincibility of “LRH Tech” will burst with big fanfare.

    That is how it should be.

  14. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    Great post thanks.
  15. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Yes. A very good post indeed.
  16. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Trouble....had never seen that. WHOA! Totally crazed and...I shan't soon forget that lovely song!

    Just laughed aloud again!

    My life is better after seeing that, thanks!!
  17. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Vinaire, cool post, very thought provoking.

    A couple ideas to consider...

    * I somewhat doubt the predicate that Hubbard was trying to parallel Buddhism. It seems far more likely that he was following MagickTech which has a thousand variations including prayer, postulates, positive thinking, affirmations, laws of affinity, visualization.....etc. The clue to how Hubbard approached life is brought into focus in studying the techniques he used to LIE. One example would be the Emergency Formula in the Ethics Tech. The magick formula is to PROMOTE before one knows if one can deliver--commonly known Extra Ecclesiam as pre-meditated fraud.

    * ["The Bridge should have ended with OT III"]: May I suggest a more truthful filter? The Bridge should have ended before the first lie, right after the word "the".

    DIANETICS The Modern Science of Mental Health
  18. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    That's a possibility.

    The basis of my speculation is that I'm assuming that DM is a sociopath.

    Sociopaths, by definition, are not bothered by conscience or conventional morality. The behavior of sociopaths is only constrained by the level of risk they are comfortable with, for a given amount of gain. Gaining control over billions of dollars is something that many people would be willing to kill for. Just ask your neighborhood drug dealer for his opinions on that.
  19. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    I don't think that Hubbard was trying to parallel Buddhism. He examined Buddhism and found it lacking. Buddha was at most a "keyed-out OT," and Nirvana was bullshit ... But, hey, one could capitalize on the popularity of Buddhism. Hubbard had no compunctions about it.

    Anyway, I am currently looking at Buddhism totally newly, and having a great fun doing that. I am looking at materials that represent most closely what Buddha might have said. I am filtering out any interpretations of what he said.

    Here is the thread:

  20. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    The Bridge could not be allowed to end anywhere.

    The only power that Scn had over people was the power to deny access to that part of the Bridge that they hadn't done yet. Once people reached the end of the bridge, then the Church would have no further power over them.

    It was necessary for the Bridge to be ever extended, and for there to always be unreleased and unpublished "Upper OT" materials to dangle like a carrot in front of people, to get them to comply and conform.