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Gib

Crusader
this whole talk of cult and it's definitions, LOL

as far as I'm concerned Hubbard tried to create a culture, and if you wish to shorten that word to cult, then do so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture

"Culture (/ˈkʌltʃər/) is, in the words of E.B. Tylor, "that complex whole which includes knowledge, belief, art, morals, law, custom and any other capabilities and habits acquired by man as a member of society."[SUP][1]"[/SUP]
 

Emiko

Patron
this whole talk of cult and it's definitions, LOL

as far as I'm concerned Hubbard tried to create a culture, and if you wish to shorten that word to cult, then do so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture

"Culture (/ˈkʌltʃər/) is, in the words of E.B. Tylor, "that complex whole which includes knowledge, belief, art, morals, law, custom and any other capabilities and habits acquired by man as a member of society."[SUP][1]"[/SUP]

I both agree with you and thank you for this post. It's interesting, as both cult and culture originally derive from a word for cultivated. That is an excellent point though, as he does try to take it a step further than just a cult. Even his own books assert morals onto people.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
I thought I said I thought it was in general a good book? There were just some misconceptions he asserted that ended up painting the church in a better light than it should have been. as in, he downplayed some things that I did not think should've been downplayed.

"Church" is used to refer to Christi
an organizations so I don't even want to touch on the use of the word church.

The word cult is more of
a gray area that really should be defined, which is why I brought it up. It labels all cults as bad when in fact only destructive cults are bad. I don't like the nomenclature, so to speak.

You seem to h
ave misunderstood what I meant by misrepresentation on the Wright's book so I will clarify one more time. I did NOT mean misconceptions about the church that should be in favor of it. There were simply certain instances that he did not emphasize events or facts that in the end gave the church a more favorable outlook than it should have been given. That's all.

Sometimes words can be slippery. Cult is one example, and I suspect
many of its uses are changing currently.


"In the sociological classifications of religious movements in English, a cult is a religious or social group with socially deviant or novel beliefs and practices.[1] However, whether any particular group's beliefs and practices are sufficiently deviant or novel is often unclear, thus making a precise definition problematic.[2][3] In the English speaking world, the word often carries derogatory connotations, but in other European languages, it is used as English-speakers use the word "religion", sometimes causing confusion for English-speakers reading material translated from other languages.[4][5] The word "cult" has always been controversial because it is (in a pejorative sense) considered a subjective term, used as an ad hominem attack against groups with differing doctrines or practices, which lacks a clear or consistent definition.[6][7]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult

edit: I believe its possible that the popular use of "cult"
being pejorative owes much to the actions and reputation of CO$. I remember when David Gaimen tried to embrace
the description of "cult " as applied to Scn by using an earlier usage of the word. Back in the seventies I believe
 
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Gib

Crusader
I both agree with you and thank you for this post. It's interesting, as both cult and culture originally derive from a word for cultivated. That is an excellent point though, as he does try to take it a step further than just a cult. Even his own books assert morals onto people.

It's more than that.

Let's take that statement and further add to it:

"Culture (/ˈkʌltʃər/) is, in the words of E.B. Tylor, "that complex whole which includes knowledge, belief, art, morals, law, custom and any other capabilities and habits acquired by man as a member of society."[SUP][1]"[/SUP]

Hubbard claimed scientology was the study of knowledge or certainty as scientology is supposedly the subject of certainty, he poo poo'd belief, he wrote a book on Art and talked about it, (morals, law custom) are all in the Ethics book. Capabilities is one hell of a rhetoric sales propaganda job. Habits are doing the TR's, what would Ron do, the repetition of redoing courses and auditing, endless word clearing, etc

and thus once you gots a group of people all agreeing we are clearing the planet and why is that a bad thing?, why you gots a crowd, as in the immortal words of Le Bon, or a revolution ( hubbard called it evolution). (at the same time, you have a group of people who can't compare notes or even discuss if any of scientology is true)

One day after being in and truely being a group member, I all of the sudden remembered, woke up you might say, in that when I first got involved by reading Dianetics some 27 years ago, why I only wanted to go "clear". You know, I says to myself, WTF, I never intended to join some group or religion. And so I left. The major push for me was the Debbie Cook email which actually got me to question.

And then from further internet research realized no such thing as clear or OT, also based on my personal experiences of seeing so called people who achieved these so called states, LOL
 

Gib

Crusader
speaking of culture.

What a coincidence, today on the Mike Rinder Thursday funnies, Mike posts various COS promo pieces, and lo and behold, about a third way down, we have a recent Hubbard guote on culture, gotta luv the rhetoric (persuasion) of it all, LOL:

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/thursday-funnies-52/

FACT.jpg
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
speaking of culture.

What a coincidence, today on the Mike Rinder Thursday funnies, Mike posts various COS promo pieces, and lo and behold, about a third way down, we have a recent Hubbard guote on culture, gotta luv the rhetoric (persuasion) of it all, LOL:

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/thursday-funnies-52/

FACT.jpg

Looking at that poster, we are the IAS I can't help but wonder how many lifetime members are exscientologists, and if there's more or less ex's than current that have lifetime memberships.
 

Gib

Crusader
Following a word to its derivation to find meaning is a Scientology tradition. Words can have different meanings and their derivations can be red herrings.

As I said I follow a definition in the same tradition as Margaret Singer regarding cults.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8bRBFhMEQFk

MB, I don't think people are red herring to win an argument, here on ESMB. All treads divert unless the OP'er directs attention. But, don't forget, ESMB'ers like to shoot the shit, and whatever comes up in one's mind to add to the post in whatever way possible. JMHO
 

Gib

Crusader
Looking at that poster, we are the IAS I can't help but wonder how many lifetime members are exscientologists, and if there's more or less ex's than current that have lifetime memberships.

Some things you long gone Ex's might not know. About 4 years ago when I was still a true blue, I noticed the young'in staff where wearing black t-shirts on Fridays that said "We are resolute, defiant, blah, blah" with a IAS logo at the heart position. This little oddity caused me to go hmmmmm. Anyways I wasn't to find out but a few months later, staff pay now also consisted of IAS dono's going directly to staff pay, 10%. Or bypass FP and Org expenses, yep all staff who got a public to donate to the IAS contributed to staff pay, the crowd.

Nice little trick by DM to increase staff pay and fill his coffers for legal expense. And at the same time staff are reading policy and are probably stacking up that question - how are we to sell scientology services, auditing & training, and yet also sell IAS dono's. I imagine an EX can get the picture of yet another confusion generated.
 
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