ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Atack on OT 8

Discussion in 'Tony Ortega' started by Anonycat, Sep 5, 2015.

  1. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    For Scientologists, the great mystery behind the curtains is “full operating thetan.” At this stage, which Hubbard first promised in 1952 before he had even come up with the expression “Operating Thetan,” the individual will be able to “exteriorize” from the human body and travel around the universe, at will, performing supernatural acts along the way to the amazement of all concerned.

    That state was codified under the title “Operating Thetan Section VIII.” In the 1970 printing of the book Scientology 0-8, OT VIII is defined as “ABILITY TO BE AT CAUSE KNOWINGLY AND AT WILL OVER THOUGHT, LIFE, FORM, MATTER, ENERGY, SPACE AND TIME, SUBJECTIVE AND OBJECTIVE.” Superpowers, indeed! If a planet annoys you, just blow it up. Heck, if a galaxy annoys you, just blow it up!

    The trial run for OT VIII failed. The first OT VIII, Otto Roos – who was also one of only five Class XII auditors trained personally by Hubbard – was ejected from Scientology in the early 70s for finding hundreds of discreditable “rock slams” – indicating “evil purposes” – in Hubbard’s auditing folders. I have been on good terms with Otto for several decades, but, much as I like him, I have yet to see anything supernatural in his behavior.

    David Miscavige was aware of the difficulty, when he took over Scientology from Hubbard’s appointed heir, Pat Broeker. His first action was to remove all of Broeker’s filing cabinets. As the redoubtable proprietor of the Bunker found, Miscavige even hired PIs to watch Broeker for 24 years (and, no, I didn’t say “hours,” I said “years”) at a tax-deductible cost of over $10 million.

    Miscavige likely knew well enough that the OT VIII he was offering would not achieve anything beyond the usual hypnotic euphoria. He certainly didn’t waste any of his own time auditing the level.

    Miscavige also knew that when the “List” or “L” processes were released, in the early 70s, Hubbard had claimed they were extracted from OT XXIII (that’s “23” to thee and me). So, there were at least 15 levels above OT VIII. Miscavige spent over ten million dollars of parishioners’ money pursuing Broeker for the missing levels, because without them, Scientology is nothing but an empty room.

    Jesse Prince confirmed this hypothesis at our Toronto seminar. He was privy to the release of OT VIII, and the catastrophe occasioned by the notorious introductory bulletin. Ray Mithoff patched together various Hubbard ‘advices’ to reveal the great secret: that Hubbard considered himself the Antichrist and Lucifer, and accused the founder of the Christian religion of being nothing more than a ‘lover of young boys and men’ (so much for Scientology’s compatibility with other religions). Jesse explained at Toronto that on OT VIII you have to ‘run out’ all of your earlier auditing. Sadly, you do not receive a refund, or compensation for the wasted time and broken promises.

    OT VIII languished for almost twenty years. Most significantly, it waited until after Hubbard was dead and gone and beyond the reproaches of the thousands who had believed that behind the OT VIII curtain was the greatest mystery of life itself.

    In fact, behind the curtain was a small man, standing on a stool with a megaphone through which he bellowed at Dorothy, the Tin Woodman, the Lion and the Scarecrow. It is awfully hard to admit that you have spent years chasing an illusion. But the cupboard is actually bare.
  2. cleared cannibal

    cleared cannibal Silver Meritorious Patron

    Seems to be an appropriate place for this Carl Sagen quote.

    [h=1]“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”[/h]― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
  3. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Well, much as I liked and respected Carl Sagan, I think the very existence of ESMB belies the truth of that last sentence.
  4. SPsince83

    SPsince83 Gold Meritorious Patron

    We're the lucky few, stratty. If I think of just the women I knew and had serious relations with, 3 lovers and my ex-wife are still in and the love of my life died on OTVII. It took twenty years for me to get free of it with no ESMB to help.
  5. cleared cannibal

    cleared cannibal Silver Meritorious Patron

    We here at ESMB are some of the small minority that can do something about it.

    Think I,ve heard something to this effect before.
  6. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Twenty years seems to be about par for the course SP. That's how long it took before the day dawned that I felt completely free of the malign influence of that evil cult. (I nearly put an 'n' instead of a 'l' in that last word. It wouldn't have changed the gist of the sentence though. :biggrin:)
  7. Hypatia

    Hypatia Pagan

    Hubbard was a very arrogant guy. He thought he could improve on and replace other people's work. instead, he created misery.
  8. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    I think that the great majority of people who get out of scientology manage to shake off its debilitating influence eventually, even if it does take twenty years.

    Sagan probably had a context in which he made the remark that I'm not aware of.
  9. arcxcauseblows

    arcxcauseblows Patron Meritorious

    re: the sagan quote, I think we came out ahead, getting in we were gullable and vulnerable, by leaving we became empowered and wiser, going in and leaving scientology can be extremely transcending
  10. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    From the information I have, there was only some theory, and no practical, for (old, original) "OT 8." There was no actual level although Hubbard told the ship's crew there was, and that it was locked in his safe, but, if production didn't improve, he'd destroy it, since Mankind doesn't deserve it, etc.

    According to David Mayo, there was no original (late 1960s) OT 8, and Hubbard told him to create an OT 8. This surprised Mayo, who had assumed that Hubbard would want to "do it" himself. As it turned out, Hubbard later had Mayo (like the others preceding him) declared "SP" - but first had him kidnapped and made to run around a pole in the desert all day in summer heat. Ray Mithoff replaced Mayo as "Senior C/S International" and concocted "New OT 8." I've no idea what became of Ray Mithoff.

    That's right. OT 23!!! What a liar Hubbard was. Miscavige must have been pissed when he found out.

    IIRC, in that confidential HCOB, Hubbard described himself as representing or fulfilling the role of Lucifer, whose appearance and influence on Earth would prevent the second coming. Hubbard's meaning for these was different since he regarded Christianity as a product of implanting.

    According to Hubbard, religion (especially Christianity) was the result of mass (electronic/psychological/genetic) implanting (meddling by ancient extraterrestrial psychiatrists), Hubbard's role was to prevent the next mass invasion (second coming) by the (implanter/extraterrestrial) Marcabians, who wouldn't dare invade a Scientology planet.

  11. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    What seems a bit odd to me....( and I'm certainly not that knowledgeable about Christianity....) but, isn't Lucifer part of Christianity?

    Wasn't Lucifer one of the top one time in Christianity....and got kicked out?

    If Hubbard rants that Christianity is an implant......then isn't he saying that Lucifer is too?
  12. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    Due to a Christian misreading of an Old Testament passage the answer to your question is yes. In the original Hebrew there isn't a being named "Lucifer". It's a long story, but trust me. I'm right. (Or I'm an agent of Lucifer...LOL...)

    The myth that developed in Christianity is that Lucifer was once an arch angel, one of the covering cherubs over YHWH's throne in fact. He then became full of vanity, started lusting for power and fell from heaven and became The Adversary, or Satan.
  13. Operating DB

    Operating DB Truman Show Dropout

    Scientology is THE implant of all implants.
  14. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    The word "Lucifer" is mentioned once in the Bible.
  15. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    No, it's not. Not in the Hebrew. When it comes to the OT the Hebrew matters. The Christians use a bastardized translation that is wrong. Wrong in many places.
  16. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    That's because Lucifer is a Latin word and wasn't around when the OT was written. Apparently the Latin translation covers a passage that isn't even about Satan.

    Therefore, Lucifer has nothing to do with Satan and it's all bastardized.

    Ron couldn't even get this correct.
  17. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    Yes. But the "latin boys" made "Lucifer" a proper name. In the hebrew it was not a name.

    Maybe later I'll dust off my notes and give more detail.
  18. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Let's revisit the LRH death event with Pat Broeker. Note the worksheet he holds up, the one with lots of numbers which he says is a date, he says is from OT10, called Character. And Pat says he took the liberty of blocking out passages above and below and you'll thank him and you'll understand when you do OT10 (implying he did up OT10, LOL).

    What a lying sack of shit, as well as DM during that event, which was one year before I got involved and never saw the whole video until a few years ago.

    And OMG, if you read the John Campbell and Heinlein letters which I posted a link to buy them for a few bucks, why Campbell even admits Hubbard was wrong, and Heinlein says he was glad for his wait and see although Heinlein almost fell for Campbell's & Dr. Winter affirmation of Dianetics who also left.

    OT8, wtf, there isn't even a fuck'in Clear. :hysterical:
  19. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron

    Hubbard was nothing if not consistently inconsistent.
  20. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron