ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Basics Books Bonza Buggerup

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by scooter, Nov 1, 2008.

  1. Mojo

    Mojo Silver Meritorious Patron

    Damn, I got a letter from Emma too! Lol. Mi culpa. She know's. I know. You know. He knows.

    How bout if you start the thread you were speaking of above? And I'll explore it with you. Lol!

    You can begin it with this quote (if you like nowwhat):

    "At the Heart of scientology, which is to say below the Mind of it, there is Truth. And often times, great truth & beautiful truth. The problem (from a social perspective, i.e. collective individuality) is that Truth in the absence of Love is treacherous to the Soul, whilst Love without Truth is Innocence parading itself as being Wisdom. Both being in need of One Another. To be Whole. So to speak."

    Scientology is a/the great social/spiritual paradox of our time in that it crossed both lines. At the very same time. Lol.

    Sometimes Being Truthful, absent Love.

    Sometimes Being Loving, absent Truth.

    And herein lies the Essence of the matter."


    P.S. I have to go away for a few more days.

    But I will come back.

    Last edited: Nov 2, 2008
  2. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    Now that they've buggered off

    Thanks everyone who's put data here - i've got some more exploring to do tonight and I'll post some more interesting bits. :coolwink:

    If there's anyone out there who has data but feels to post it would compromise their identity, PM me with it at least. :yes:
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2008
  3. Mojo

    Mojo Silver Meritorious Patron

    "If he has no friends and everyone's against him
    If he's failed in everything that he has tried
    Try to lift his load, help to bear his burden
    Let him know that you are walking by his side

    And if he feels that all is lost and he is fallen
    Try to place that poor man's feet on solid ground
    Just remember he's some mother's precious darlin'
    Always lift him up and never knock him down

    Blind Alfred Reed, circa 1927 "

    Thank You Scooter, (circa 2008"). That is 'a most beautiful thing' I have been blessed to read in a long long time. It's pure spiritual genius to me.

    Last edited: Nov 2, 2008
  4. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    I saw footage of the facility at the basics release event. And DM himself narrated the footage and told of the other one just like it. I have no idea if there is info on the net.
  5. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes I don't doubt that they actually sent the things to the libraries, but if you were at an org in the last few months you would see all the maps of different continents like the entire US, for example, listed as accomplished. To omit that the libraries don't actually put them on the shelves or are even throwing them away is a pretty big omission to put it mildly. And at $4000 a set when their cost is under $100 is as sleazy as you can get. The pressure to contribute to this thing was beyond ridiculous and they gave every impression that the libraries were putting these on the shelves - even though I rightly thought nobody would read them. There is no simple misunderstanding. DM should be tarred and feathered like any other snake-oil salesman.
  6. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster Guest


    I will assume you are reporting the contents of said event to the best of your recollection and in good faith. However, since when do we take any claims made by David Miscavage at a Scientology Event as true facts just on his say-so?

    And without viewing said footage and listening to the narration myself, I cannot evaluate whether (a) the facility shown is actually a large-scale press and bindery suitable for use in manufacturing Scientology(tm) books; (b) whether said facility is actually claimed to be owned, operated and staffed by Sea Org by D.M.; or (c) whether claim (b) is actually the true facts.

    Of course, they have long handled all the pre-press work for book production in-house, that is not at issue.

    Was this footage only shown at the event itself or can it be found on the Basics DVD?

    I do not see how the existence of a large-scale printing & binding facility - owned, operated and manned entirely by Sea Org - can possibly be, without reports of it from our former insiders nor anyone from the critic community or Anonymous having ever discovered it's existence.

    Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
    I am *not* anonymous.
  7. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    I don't really see the point you are trying to make. Would this be less of a scam if they used an outside facility? In fact it would be to his benefit to say that there was an outside facility because then it would be easier to justify the high cost. They showed extensive inside footage of the facility with much bragging and said there would be no point in showing footage from the other one as it was identical to the one they showed. This is Bridge Pub and not Gold. That's all the info I have. I do not know if this is on the DVD.
  8. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster Guest

    Then re-read the thread from the top.

    From what I could see, it was being asserted by nowwhat that these book sets effectively cost nothing because they are made in-house "by slave labor".

    I have reason to believe otherwise and gave my best estimate of the cost-value of one of those sets based upon past experience in this area.

    One of my key facts has been challenged and a completely absurd notion suggested instead: that C of $ now owns and operates a large scale book printing and bindery staffed entirely by Sea Org (two such facilities, it is claimed) which absolutely nobody in the critic community or amongst the ex-Int. Base staff available to us ever knew about before D.M. announced it at the Basics Event.

    The actual truth may be that absurd, but I would like to see some sort of Real World(tm) confirmation, if it is.

    I'm not trying to make a point. I'm trying to establish the true facts!

    Argumentation predicated upon false facts is always going be completely fallacious, don't you see?

    Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
  9. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    Welcome to my ignore list.
  10. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    OK Sneakster I get your point - IF there is no SO-run printing facilities, the cost of printing these Basics books skyrockets.

    Now I saw the event too and the "facilities" were a very brief shot of what could be any warehouse facility anywhere.

    So IF DM's lying about the printing facilities, then the Basics carries rather huge overheads that he has to cover.:hotwater:

    Next question becomes: where exactly are these printing facilities?:confused2:

    Sneakster, how would YOU find out this?:coolwink:
  11. Neo

    Neo Silver Meritorious Patron

    From what I remember of the events, DM made it quite clear that the printing facilities were in-house. There was footage of SO personal running the machines, the CD production, the book printing, etc. I understand that this could all be one big PR con (of course I personally doubt that CoS would stoop to such a level), and therefore the costs involved would be significantly different.

    I was under the impression that both Bridge Publication had a facility in Los Angeles, and New Era had a facility in Europe somewhere.

    Sorry I don't have any more data than that, I was probably too blown out by my wins off the Basics at the time to be paying attention :duh:

  12. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yep that's what I remember from the event too, Neo,

    But Sneakster's question is a good one - who knows where these facility are?
  13. Axiom142

    Axiom142 Gold Meritorious Patron

    I know this isn’t exactly on the same subject, but it is related.

    A few years ago when the congress lectures were released on CD, all the public were expected to get them all. Can’t remember the exact price, but I think it was around £2,000.

    Such was the pressure, that there was a board in the St Hill reception with a map of East Grinstead showing the location of all the local Scientologists and a list of who had purchased their congress packages and who had not!

    Presumably some imbecile thought that ‘naming and shaming’ publically like this was the best way to handle their public. :duh:

    The CoS hate being called a ‘cult’, but what do they expect when they act like one?

    Has anyone heard of anything similar happening for the Basics?

  14. Zander

    Zander Patron with Honors

    They appear to have all that on a central computer now and I'm sure they do have it on public boards too and also send the lists to fsm's to chase up people who haven't bought. In my case I was left alone as after they debited my account for the Basics without my approval I kept getting communications from all over the place congratulating me on having them (i.e. Flag, Bridge etc), even though the debit was cancelled within days when I found out about it and the books were never sent! So it appears that their computer records were never corrected.

    I have continued to get similar congratulatory communications and this assumption that I had the basics also turned up in in individual letters, so there must be wide access to this "data" throughout orgs. According to them I also seem to have acquired the basics courses AND the congresses too (I haven't!)
  15. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    Down the rabbit hole

    Here's an interesting thing.

    I can find no mention on the Net of either of the two "state-of-the-art" printing facilities mentioned by DM at the Basics release.:confused2:

    I would have thought that this would have been news to promote - I mean , your own brand-spanking-new printing facilities that can just roll out whatever you want like that!:thumbsup:

    Curiouser and curiouser.:unsure:
  16. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    I do not have the DVD so can't comment on it.

    However, within the last 2 maybe 3 months I have seen definitely "some minutes" maybe 10, of a video showing the Printing plant as well as the DVD production plant. I wonder if it can't be found now, if it was a you tube item that was removed due to copyright infringement?

    It showed many of the machines/computers, cutters, binders, labelers ect.

    I will look some to see if I can find it, as I know for sure I saw this online
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2008
  17. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

  18. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I remember the video of the facilities. It looked genuine in my opinion, for whatever that is worth. I have no idea where to find supporting evidence online. However, do they still send out paper editions of KSW News or Scientology Today or whatever the thing is called now? They used to carry long write-ups after an event, with highlights from the event, and I would imagine a photo and description of such an expensively useful addition to their facilities would have been included.

    Remember that The Way To Happiness building in Glendale, that looks gorgeous from the outside although it never has any visitors inside, has a print-on-demand facility downstairs that will print TWTH booklets to order in any quantity and any language. I know that TWTH booklets are not the same as hardback books with stitched pages, but it shows that the CofS is not always reluctant to adopt expensive modern technology.

  19. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    "But shifting from outsourcing to in-house print manufacturing, digital notwithstanding, is no walk in the park. It was even more challenging for Bridge's now 85-strong team, who had no hands-on printing or postpress experience. “We did several months of prototyping and testing the machines and workflow before pressing the start button on our first full-fledged digital run, a 20,000-copy printing of Advanced Procedures and Axioms, on January 7, 2007,” adds Arnow. There has been no looking back since.

    The facility's state-of-the-art digital presses—one HP Indigo 1000, four HP Indigo 5000s, six Xerox DocuPrint 525/1050s and two Xerox iGen3 110s—are complemented by a full postpress machinery lineup for long-run printing of hardcovers, trade paperbacks, concealed coil-bound workbooks, and marketing collaterals. The focus of Bridge's publishing program (ergo, its printing and binding activities) is Dianetics and Church of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, whose works have been translated into 65 languages and, in 2006, was recognized by Guinness World Records as the most translated author of all time. “Our longest average run is 20,000 copies, while the shortest—very POD-like—is around 100 copies, the usual length for minor foreign language titles,” says Arnow."

    From the article, the plant is in Commerce, Ca.
  20. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster Guest

    Div6: Fantastic Job digging this up! You have succeeded where I have failed!! :duh:

    Thank you very very much! :coolwink:

    HP Digital Press Page (for those who want to see these monsters):

    Xerox Digital Press Page

    The post-press machinery is not mentioned, but it would have to include equipment to bind books into hardcovers, foil stamp them, add dust jackets, etc. I would expect that sort of gear to be remain fairly large and require considerable floor space.

    Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
    I am *not* anonymous
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2008