ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



Basics Books Bonza Buggerup

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by scooter, Nov 1, 2008.

View Users: View Users
  1. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    I did mention this earlier on another thread. Someone commented to me that the basic books is a way to get money into DMs own pocket. Royalties
    are something that can be for profit, despite COS non profit status. As
    COS, or sections thereof, is publisher, printer, copyright holder, and as it seems there is no limit on what royalties as a percentage can be, this
    whole affair seems to be just a licence to print money and squirrel it away.
    [ excuse pun]
     
  2. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Not royalties as DM isn't the author, but I read somewhere in the past couple of years that some Int Execs got bonuses based on booksales. Since there aren't a whole lot of Int Execs left, it would not be unreal to think that he gets bonuses based on booksales.

    Paul
     
  3. QRES

    QRES Patron

    http://librarianwoes.wordpress.com/2008/03/24/scientology-dump/


    Here is a link to the website that I found when I heard about the Sci book dump into libraries.

    I think the librarians would get a boost to know what is going on and what they can do to help (could start a whisper campaign in libraries - because ... you have to whisper in libraries... sorry bad joke is bad)
     
  4. EP - Ethics Particle

    EP - Ethics Particle Gold Meritorious Patron

    Questions...

    Gentlepersons, consider this:

    Is there a possibility that the manufacturing process (printing, binding, packaging, etc.) is actually accomplished by an "imbedded" privately-held "for profit" (or "off-shore") corporation/partnership/individual? We know, apparently, that "Author Services, Inc. is privately held, I believe.

    A printing/binding operation could be set up in a space leased (or not) in the large facility and "on paper" be privately held - and who would know? So rent is negligible and SO laborers/technicians do what they're told for the most part, don't they? The equipment is likely leased and may be another possibility for "laundering" or distributing money to certain other parties.

    Such an operation could charge whatever prices it desired to the "Tax-exempt" entity - at least that's how I see it. This could work as long as there is no complaint, no outside communication and no outside accountants and no bookeeping department except DM's own.

    For example, say "X" purchases the printing/binding equipment in another country for cash - then ships it to Commerce, CA and "leases it to the "Tax-Exemp CoS" for some astronomical sum payable on demand! The possibilities are staggering, just from this angle alone.

    Extremely inflated prices for manufacturing/printing and leasing equipment could be the "black hole" that channels the money into the private sector hands who remain securely secluded behing the curtain.

    DM's share is probably "bubkis" in the final analysis - but enough to keep him interested (and maybe very scared). I, for one, believe DM has unseen "handlers".

    Does this make sense to anyone else?
     
  5. Carnaubawax

    Carnaubawax Patron Meritorious

    I'd love to hear more about that.
     
  6. FinallyMe

    FinallyMe Silver Meritorious Patron

    I just wanted to point out, for those who may not know, that "Bandini" is a "fertilizer" brand, and at least one of the production sites of fertilizer is on Bandini Blvd. And BTW, the area REEKS of something like ammonia about twice a week.

    Just thought the book production place is appropriately positioned.
     
  7. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    A COS entity is still I presume " The author". ASI? Whatever.

    That's an interesting point, that individual reges get commision on book sales. That apparently is OK despite non-profit status. Not that I know why.

    DM is actually holding most or all exec positions. He gets all the bonus's for each position?

    That a violation of non profit staus? I suspect not.

    This a method of skiving off to Bulgravia?

    Thats my consopiracy theory de jour. :)
     
  8. EP - Ethics Particle

    EP - Ethics Particle Gold Meritorious Patron

    Just a hunch...

    Wish I had more to tell ya - it is just a suspicion I have and that's about it. :confused2: But if confirmed, it would align other, known, data I believe.
     
  9. Axiom142

    Axiom142 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Paul,

    But somebody must get the royalties now. Usually it would be the heirs of the author. But in this case, they seem to have been 'persuaded' to relinquish any claims that they may have had.

    Maybe you’ve uncovered the real reason for declaring all the Int Execs – so DM can HFA (hold from above) all the posts and get all the book commissions? Why didn’t I think of that! :duh:

    Terril,

    On all the recent books, the author is "L. Ron Hubbard Library" which is the 'trading name' of The Church of Spiritual Technology (CST) which owns all the works of Hubbard and all the trademarks and service marks of the CoS.

    Presumably they decide where the profits go. And since they don't appear to publish accounts, it is a bit difficult to tell where the money goes.

    So, it is entirely plausible that a great deal of money is being stashed into a particular person’s bank account.

    Actually, does anyone know if a ‘Church’ has to file financial accounts in the US? They certainly do have to in the UK. According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Spiritual_Technology ), the CST is registered in California. If would be great if someone could find out if they have filed accounts and exactly what is on them. Wouldn’t it be great if someone could ‘pull a string’ and find out that they had been diverting funds without telling anyone?

    Careful, you’ll be treading on Paul’s toes there Terril. :whistling:

    Only kidding Paul, we love ya! :coolwink:

    Axiom142
     
  10. Axiom142

    Axiom142 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well Roy, this does make sense, but unless we have any hard evidence, it is just conjecture. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if something like this is taking place, but how could we prove it? Now if we had someone from ‘inside’ who could spill the beans ….

    One thing is for certain, there is a lot of money in selling these packages.

    In the UK, the full price for the Basics package is around £2,300 and the Congress lectures are £1,800. So, taking this as an average price and assuming that the CoS sells around 50,000 of each (rather conservative given the maniacal selling of the Basics and the fact that many libraries have received multiple copies), this gives a total gross sales amount of £205m or US $324m.

    Now, as we have seen, the CoS has it’s own printing facilities staffed by staff who get paid a pittance. So, I would estimate total production costs for both packages to be around £200 - £300. Lets call it £300, so the total profit would be £205 - £300 x 50,000 = £190m = $300m. I'd heard that the target was to sell 100,000 copies of the Basics alone, so this figure could be much higher.

    OK, so they have to pay off the cost of setting up the plant and all the printers which are pretty costly I’d imagine, but even so, that is an awful lot of money.

    And of course, there are all the other ‘releases’ that Scientologists are expected to buy. And I do mean expected. After the Congress lectures were released, I was told in no uncertain terms that I must buy a set. Being told what to do gets my back up and being the ornery sort of person that I am, prompted the following exchange:

    Ax – Why do I have to buy these?
    St Hill Exec (SHE) – because it’s Command Intention’.
    Ax - I’m not on staff, I don’t have to follow orders.
    SHE – All Scientologists are expected to get these lectures.
    Ax – Why?
    SHE – So that you can get the vitally important LRH data in them.
    Ax – OK then, I’ll just borrow them off Xxxx.
    SHE – No, you have to have your own copies.
    Ax – You just said getting the information was the objective, why do I have to have my own copy?
    SHE – We need to pay for all the printing and setting up costs.
    Ax – I can’t afford to keep getting all the latest releases every year.
    SHE – This is the last piece in the jigsaw, you won’t have to get anything else. (!)
    Ax (under his breath – yeah until the next vitally important release).
    SHE – What?
    Ax (sidling towards exit)– I’ll think about it.
    SHE – All Scientologists need to buy this package right now!
    Ax – Surely you don’t mean all Scientologists?
    SHE – Yes I do!
    AX – What, literally every Scientologist?
    SHE – Yes!
    Ax – Have you got your copies yet?
    SHE – Wha... - I don’t have to, I’m on staff!
    AX – You said every Scientologist had to get them. Literally.
    SHE – Obviously this doesn’t include staff.
    Ax – Why not?
    SHE – Because, er, um …. Every Scientologist has to buy these lectures now!
    ...

    Mean aren’t I? :yes:

    Axiom142
     
  11. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster Guest

    Bridge Publications, Inc. is already a privately held for-profit corporation. :duh:

    I already stated that on this very thread. :eyeroll:

    They had to separate from Church of Scientology of California, Inc. (which was an IRC 501(c)3 non-profit organization) because paying royalties to Ron Hubbard constituted inurement his personal benefit which could have cost CSC, Inc. their tax-exempt status. :ohmy:

    This is information anyone who spent about 20 minutes doing their homework could have found out. :grouch:

    As for D.M.'s pay and bonuses?

    There are charity watchdogs with copies of the annual IRS Form 990 statements of nearly all major charitable organizations available online. There are top execs in not-for-profit charitable organizations like the American Lung Association and the American Cancer Society getting upwards of USD $250,000 or more per year plus expenses without the I.R.S. batting an eyelash.

    Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
    I am *not* anonymous
     
  12. randomx

    randomx Patron with Honors

    The L Ron Hubbard Library

    Here is a site explaining who holds the copyrights
    and who profits from book royalties.

    http://www.sc-i-r-s-ology.pair.com/veritas/index.htm

    .The true name of the corporation is "Church of Spiritual Technology" (CST).
    .....From Library of Congress records, it seems that CST now owns ALL copyrights to everything L. Ron Hubbard ever wrote. The story of how CST came into ownership of all the copyrights is graphed in How CST Grabbed the Copyrights. As shown in that chart, the copyrights did not transfer to CST until AFTER they were granted tax exemption by IRS.

    This site gets you inside the core of this scam.

    This is not just "interesting".
    It is the foundation of the scam.
    Shake this and the whole thing topples.
     
  13. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster Guest

    That web site mostly exists to promote a bizarre conspiracy theory about how the I.R.S. really controls Scientology. :melodramatic:

    Our own ESMB member Larry Brennan is the one who designed and set up the current corporate structure personally, after getting Hubbard's approval. He has already debunked most of that site's nonsense theories right here on ESMB. :thumbsup:

    Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
    I am *not* anonymous.
     
  14. QRES

    QRES Patron

    One thing that I did think of a few months ago most of the info is in the article: http://anon-galaxy.blogspot.com/search?q=Library

    If you just want books printed cheap China would be the place to go. They can produce any qnty and quality in printing the problem is they DO NOT honor copyright and would be selling them in dollar stores etc... But Bridge could print at these prices if they needed. Maybe instead of thinking about some ghost company running Bridge that Bridge MIGHT actually be doing business that should be taxed and should meet state labor guidelines. (again all speculation)

    But I don't even know if Bridge is a tax free business they are selling the classic LRH stories to bookstores and you would think that involved paying some taxes.

    It would also be interesting to find out who supplies them with paper. An order for paper in this quantity is a pretty good chunk of change for a company and a sales person.

    If there was a record of how much paper was bought (all paper from the video was the size of two pages fed into printers)

    I remember there may have also been an issue donating books like this in Canada and other places where they are not recognized as a religion. But I don't think we followed up on it and I don't remember what it was.

    Again I am just throwing out speculation and random informaton sorry for that.
     
  15. randomx

    randomx Patron with Honors

    Yes Larry did the corporate structuring while Hubbard was alive.
    But the CST was set up after Hubbard`s "suicide".
    Veritas has the documents on their site.
    Would love to hear Larry`s thoughts about the veritas site
    here on this thread.
     
  16. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Here you go, about halfway down the page:
    http://www.forum.exscn.net/archive/index.php/t-3477.html

    Paul
     
  17. minnie

    minnie Patron with Honors

    I spoke to a librarian not long ago and she said that in the past they've had a few religous groups trying to donate their books with the obvious intent to gain more converts etc. So she said (with a smirk) the library is pretty wary of such donations, and if they accept them, only bother to take enough to benefit those who are researching religious groups/cults and who need to get the other perspective.

    I initially spoke to this librarian after a friend alerted me to the fact that a new book about scientology (critical) was being showcased in the library. I got in there as soon as I could, and have never been able to find this book.:confused2:

    Anyway, there's no basic books in this particular library, but one presumably can get hold of a couple of scn books by intra-library loans. It's just such a ridiculous goal trying to stuff the shelves of so many libraries when one can get one this way. Funny though looking in the catalogue there, it's looking damn hard even finding one complete basics set in that particular network of libraries.

    There is a library I actually donated a basic book to pre-release of the Basics. I was recently considering asking them to remove it from the shelf but it's actually good for the critic cause. I won't say which book, but it's an excellent summary of scientology paranoia.
     
  18. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster Guest

    CST was incorporated in May 1982, even according to the documents on that Veritas site, most of which are HTML texts and not images of originals and therefore somewhat questionable as to authenticity (but for the purposes of remainder of this post, I will assume they are accurate).

    The authors of that site are ex-Churchie Scientologists who simply refuse to believe that Ron Hubbard himself personally ordered the C of $ corporate structure set up the way it is currently.

    On that site, these authors proceed to expound upon - at great length - a conspiracy theory in which the U.S. Internal Revenue Service is the entity actually in control of the Church of Scientology, based upon two main facts: (a) the CST Board of Directors contains no Scientologists. (b) former IRS employee Meade Emory was heavily involved in the probate of Ron Hubbard's will.

    These authors blissfully ignore the fact that CST Corporate By-Laws create a Board of Trustees that is empowered to remove and replace Board of Director members pretty much at will and requires that that Board of Trustees consist solely of Scientologists with good Ethics records, who have records of good case gain and have completed Upper OT Levels within 10 years of becoming a Trustee, etc., etc.

    Read the By-Laws Articles VI and VII for a full rundown on the Board of Trustees and their relationship to the Board of Directors of CST.

    The Board of Trustees has pretty much total power over the Board of Directors and David Miscavige has pretty much total power over the Board of Trustees, because he has the power to cancel any Trustee's certificates, upon which their membership in that board depends.

    The I.R.S. is not in charge of Scientology - David Miscavige IS!

    Interested readers are strongly urged to study the formal Declaration of Larry Brennan which has been posted verbatim to ESMB back in May 2008 for the true facts about the current corporate setup, which remains as he established it to this day.

    Larry was there. The kooks who created the Veritas site were not.

    Michael A. Hobson
    I am *not* anonymous
     
  19. Axiom142

    Axiom142 Gold Meritorious Patron

    This is a very good point Minnie.

    It shows that it will be impossible to get all libraries to have copies of all the Basic books. And I’m sure that the CoS knows this full well.

    Another piece of damming evidence showing that this whole ‘books into libraries’ evolution is a huge con simply designed to extract as much money as possible from the Scientology public. Huge amounts of money spent and no product to show for it.

    Just about sums up the CoS right now, I think. :yes:

    Axiom142
     
  20. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    The CofS has a paper version of "straight to DVD": Straight to landfill. :)

    Paul