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Bill Franks Interviews for UTR folks and new Exes

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by ILove2Lurk, Dec 22, 2018.

  1. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    . . .
    If you're newly out or need some more help to peel the Scientology onion,
    I can't recommend these interviews highly enough. Bill talks about many
    behind-the-scenes moments with Hubbard, Mary Sue Hubbard, Miscavige,
    Pat Broeker and many others. (All are audio only.)

    My favorite right now is this last one here, which was just released today.
    It picks up steam after the 20-minute mark and is a very shocking look
    inside Hubbard's mind, real motives, and behavior off the public stage.

    Bill deals the cards straight up about Hubbard.

    RIP, Bill. :rose:
    Gib likes this.
  2. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I agree, this last one I think is great. There is one point Jeffrey made that I don't think Bill really got.

    Jeffrey said Hubbard was a writer. And Hubbard made his money thru royalties. I don't think Bill quite got what this really means. And Jeffrey said DM is doing the same, hence the release of the "basics".

    What it really means is that Hubbard created a crowd, a captive audience to read his books and listen to his lectures, but that means you must pay for the books and lectures at a very dear price. Hence Hubbard made millions selling his books and taped lectures collecting a percentage royalty.

    But DM can sure capitalize on the royalties as well as his lawyers. It's a cash cow.

    Hubbard's very dear price can be translated into these are my words that will save mankind and clear people. My words of wisdom are exchange in abundance, blue diamonds I have to offer you. Hubbard.

    I do love that Bill says there is nothing there and it took him awhile to figure it out. That's much a do about nothing which means actually no clears or OT's.

    I do love that Bill said the OEC/FEBC course was really nothing more than how to make money for the organization, which really means Hubbard, and now DM.
  3. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    . . .
    Fair use excerpt Bill Franks in #5 video above:

    "I just had to get all this shit out of my head. That's taken a lot of years. It's a solo journey, you know.
    "Everyone's working it out [for themselves]. It's like working nothing out. There was never any plan to clear the planet. There was no technology, absolutely none. But he wrote reams and reams of paper because he was a pulp writer. But Jesus, I guess it's very hard to come to, face to face with the fact that there's nothing there.
    "It's a sad, sad thing. . . . People who, they want to believe, but there's nothing there. It's very hard to explain it to anybody. So I've just kept my mouth shut basically."

    * Very slightly edited for clarity.
    Gib likes this.
  4. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Outstanding. That's the core missing "r-factor" that all Scientologists use every superhuman power in their arsenal to avoid discovering.

    That's also the most suppressive high-crime "cognition" of all. That there's nothing there.

    The other "briefing" Scientologists never attend is the one that explains how all that is happening within Scientology is that otherwise normal and good people are being efficiently transformed en masse into con men and liars.

    Scientologists justify the con man component by calling it names with a lovely humanitarian-sounding cachet to it, like "dissemination", "clearing the planet" and "saving mankind". And they employ hundreds of cheap gimmicks to help them become chronic & accomplished liars, exactly like their God (Hubbard) who created Scientologists in his own image.

    Mainly Scientologists lie to themselves, although on occasion they show off & engage those skills in order to secure a 10% FSM commission.

    JustSheila, Gib and Type4_PTS like this.
  5. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    I think of most Scientologists more as dupes than con men.

    While the ultimate effect on others is essentially the same, the underlying intention is dramatically different.

    Con men have bad intentions towards their marks, knowingly intending to deceive and defraud them.

    Most Scientologists on the other hand are dupes, with the intention to save others (and this sector of the universe), but ultimately their actions are still deceptive and fraudulent.

    And even when Scientologists knowingly deceive others or pressure them to do something that's harmful to their finances or family, many of them truly believe it is the "greatest good".

    Because true believers really do believe what they're selling, they often come across as genuine and convincing, causing some of those who fell for the bullshit to later begin selling it themselves. Under the right conditions, Scientology can spread like a virus, causing a great deal of harm to society. So true believers can be even more dangerous than con artists, especially when governments and law enforcement don't do their job to protect those who they're supposed to be representing.

    These recordings of Bill Franks can help inoculate others for sure. Hopefully one day they make their way (with subtitles) to Taiwan, Russia, and other areas where the Scientology virus is still spreading. Scientology is really struggling here in the U.S. because of the books, documentaries, forums, blogs, TV shows, etc. that are exposing the truth about this criminal organization. But most of it hasn't been translated into other languages as of yet. As the translation software coming out becomes more and more sophisticated, hopefully it can be used to translate a massive amount of information that is mostly in English at present.
    Jenyfurrr, JustSheila, Gib and 4 others like this.
  6. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    Where's Barry when we need him? :shrug: :coolwink:
    Enthetan likes this.
  7. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    I think true purpose of the "Basics" release, was to re-issue everything under new copyrights, under the control of Miscavige.

    See for yourself at the US copyright office web site. Look up some Scn titles, and see who the copyright holder was in the earliest edition, versus today.

    For example, look at the 1975 edition of "Dianetics Today". The copyright holder is Diana Meredith Dewolf Hubbard. She is also the copyright holder of 1410 different policy letters and such.

    Go explore for yourself.
    No One and Gib like this.
  8. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    Today you could call the O/W, the "guilt trip". You are made to feel guilty for something that didn't amount to much of anything or nothing. I believe there is the with hold of nothing where you get relief because it is discovered, through "I'm not auditing you" that someone said you had an overt but didn't and basically ran it on you till you caved in, broke down, or went completely psychotic.

    This stuff is actually used in law enforcement today when they interview a suspect. They may have the right suspect, but, they may have the wrong guy, they isolate him, or her, and work the overt motivator sequence till you will say anything to get it to stop. This may result in a genuine confession but also may result in confessing to a withhold of nothing where you think I must have done something because they say I have.
    Gib and Leland like this.
  9. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    Top link goes to Disney.
    Gib likes this.
  10. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I forgot about that part, true. But a money grab anyways. When they came out, what a nightmare, endless phone calls and reg cycles when one into the org or at Flag.

    When I went to Flag to do the Prosperity Rundown, earlier called Havingness Rundown, I was on the routing form and next step was to see the bookstore officer, she says look you are red tagged, I said WHAT, she said look here stapled is a red tag meaning you haven't bought your basics. WTF. I got out of it by some fancy thinking on my part, but I didn't know anything at the time of what's really going on like I do now.
  11. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    I notice on the last one that it sounds like he's on opiates, from the pain. I was on such after a vehicle accident, and that's how I sounded (over the hills and far away).

    I do think he's making too much of Hub admitting people don't blow from OWs but from upsets. It doesn't invalid 80% of the tech at all, because the bridge could and often did stand on its own outside of any organizational reference (field auditing). For all his faults, he came up with some innovative counseling methods (much of which he shat on for the sake of making money). His ideas were generally better than psychologists came up with.

    Also he quotes Hub saying, in the late 40s, that the way to riches is in starting a religion, and Bill says that was his purpose all along. That is belied by the fact that Hub launched the religion 4 years after trying to set up Dianetics as a popular (and secular) movement/science.

    I can easily believe that by the 1960s it was all about the money though. There's a lot of testimony that Hub was off his rocker at Saint Hill and later. Probably from those OWs :)
  12. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    JustSheila and strativarius like this.
  13. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    I wish Bill had done more of the talking in this series.
  14. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Science Fiction author Harlan Ellison says he was there when Ron said it.

    TomKat likes this.
  15. Anonymous100

    Anonymous100 Patron

    Does DM get royalties now then straight into his pocket?
    Enthetan likes this.
  16. Anonymous100

    Anonymous100 Patron

    This doesnt quite make sense...there was and is a technology that hubbard and others worked on...not sure if it worked although some feel relief for a while...and hubbard kept auditing himself so must have thought it not quite sure what Bill means here ...??
  17. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    . . .
    I'll give you my opinion, though it's not the last word on the subject.
    Yes, this is true. The minor or temporary relief -- or even permanent benefits -- did not come anywhere near what was promised. Nowhere near. Not even in the same universe near.
    Must have. Maybe he was making a "Hail Mary auditing attempt" to save himself after things had not worked out as expected for his own personal physical condition or case state. Maybe he just went mad -- dementia or Alzheimer's.

    Read this post and this one for my more detailed answers.

    Basically, Hubbard convinced everyone he developed a SCIENCE and got people to devote decades chasing the ultimate goal. It turned out not to be a science. The ultimate goal did not exist. It was Hubbard's invention or fantasy, as it turns out.

    The wasted decades and fortunes are what people are trying to resolve quietly and all alone usually. It takes time to get over a wasted life. The betrayal.

    I know for a fact that many OTs quit and went back to drugs, just like they were doing prior to getting involved Scientology in the 70's, 80's or 90's.

    They discovered there's nothing there.

    Hope this helps to answer your question.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  18. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Are you familiar with what psychologists have actually come up with? Have you actually read any of it? Or are your ideas about psychologists based on scn propaganda?
    Hubbs launched Dianetics in Astounding Science Fiction. His original fan base was sci-fi fans, who were generally religious sceptics. A lot of them didn't like it when Hubbs introduced thetans and past lives because it smacked of religion and the occult. He didn't want to alienate his original fan base further with "the religion angle."
    There's a lot of evidence he was off his rocker much earlier. Here's a 1953 letter to Helen O'Brien where he tells her he wants an electronic device that will enable him to hypnotize (his word) the insane, exteriorize and audit them. He says, "The Japanese have registered many patents on such devices and have even, I think, killed a goat with one at 300 yards."

    There's a link at the end to a handwritten version of the letter, in LRH's handwriting (just in case you thought this was so bizarre it had to be faked).

    And there's always The Affirmations, too, for evidence of pre-60's lunacy. Those have been posted here many times.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
    Gib and programmer_guy like this.
  19. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    I studied psychology in school until I got in Scn, the last book I remember reading being I'm OK, You're OK. After I left Scn I read a little of it, but was more interested in the occult. Today the most effective psychology practices seem to be Transactional Analysis and EMDR (more useful as a patch or assist). There are also more "new age" practices such as Emotional Freedom Technique. Psychology is of mixed effectiveness (though more innovative than Scientology, which is stuck in the past). I've known people who were in analysis for 10 years or more, and doubt they got more than a rationalization of why they are screwed up. Overall, I have found the ideas of Freud and Jung to be the most useful.

    What type of psychology have you been exposed to?
  20. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Mostly Freud. I did 2 1/2 years of psychoanalysis after I got out of scn and found it far more helpful.

    I read "I'm OK, You're OK" and "Games People Play" while I was in scn. It didn't strike me as "suppressive" at all, so I went on from there to Freud's "Interpretation of Dreams" and "Introductory Lectures on Psychoanalysis." This got me curious about psychoanalysis so I decided to actually do it, a few years after I got out of scn.

    You think Hubbard's ideas are "generally more useful" than the ideas of Freud and Jung?
    JustSheila likes this.