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Buying Into BS

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Chris Shugart, Mar 15, 2019.

  1. Chris Shugart

    Chris Shugart Patron


    A frequent comment I see on Scientology blogs is, “How does anyone fall for that crap?” I have an answer to that which occasionally gets an angry reaction. My answer is, “So what crap have you fallen for?” You see, I contend that everybody, at one time or another, will foolishly buy into some bogus pile of BS. They may not know it. They may never know it. But one thing I know is that even smart people fall for stupid ideas.

    The world overflows with ideologues, true believers, and followers of whatever dogma happens to be popular for the moment. And such devotion isn’t limited to religious beliefs and practices. Political and social movements too, abound with ardent supporters who profess and promote their particular causes.

    With all of these ideologies flying around, it’s a wonder that people manage to get along. Actually, they often don’t. Consider the overwhelming proliferation of mass media, social media, and camera phones, and you’ll see a society perpetually engaged in one loud, ongoing squabble about anything and everything.

    Maybe it’s just human nature. We always seem to be willing to mock the other guy’s crap. But our own crap? Why, that’s the real deal—unquestionable truths to live by. One man’s BS is another man’s gospel.

    Sometimes these ideological devotees turn into ideological zealots. This is the home turf of the fanatic and true believer. Whether it’s a religious zealot, a political radical, or social revolutionary, these are the extremists in society, militant ideologues driven by some grand philosophical theory. It doesn’t matter what the ideology is. If you have to consult your philosophy before you can make an observation, opinion, evaluation, or decision, you can miss the immediate situation in front of you. Reality doesn’t always conform to ideological precepts.

    As a former true believer, I like to think that I’ve since shed the rigid mindset that once ruled my life for so many years. And in the process of this change of thinking, I’ve become aware of the inflexible thought constructs of others. It’s like looking in a mirror of my former self.

    Perhaps someday I may have this dialogue:

    “How did you ever fall for that crap?”

    “How did you ever fall for your crap?”

    “I haven’t fallen for any crap.”

    “Yeah, famous last words. That’s what they all say.”
  2. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yeah, that's one way to approach it, but I don't think that's particularly useful.

    Most ex-Scientologists got into Scientology before the Internet exposed the lies, abuses, fraud and "Xenu". The only information that was easily available was Scientology's oh-so-wonderful propaganda. What did we know?

    It isn't that we read about Xenu and said "Wow! That sounds like something I want to be a part of!" Seriously! :duh:

    We didn't hear the stories of the greed, prisons and "fair game" and said: "That sounds like my kind of group!" That isn't how it happened.

    We got in before the Internet exposed all that crap. Now that it's all out in the open, Scientology's recruitment has become virtually ZERO. We certainly wouldn't join now.
  3. F.Bullbait

    F.Bullbait Oh, a wise guy,eh?

  4. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    I don't know if answering the question, "How did you fall for this BS?" with "Because you fell for the BS you fell for.", is being honest with yourself.

    I think maybe answering, "Because I was not using critical thinking at the time I fell into this.", might show a little more self awareness.
    tesseract and Gib like this.
  5. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Had another thought about people who ask how you could have fallen for the scam : Look through their Facebook posts and see what Facebook scams they've fallen for... :D

    Just a thought.
    Operating DB and HelluvaHoax! like this.
  6. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown


    But it is a valid point. Just look at the fake news items everyone shares around.
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  7. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    Agreed. Yet it beggars belief as to why some people still do.

    I think my post in the President Trump thread

    would be applicable here as well.

    When I got in, I had never even heard of it before. A friend at the time (not any more...) showed it to me and I went along. The picture that was being painted was action with a new approach. It was odd but not wacky to me then without any other proper information to go along with it.

    As I went along things just got introduced gradually and I never realised we were being primed for the next story.

    In all honesty I never saw anything in the media about it, but I wasn't really into reading the papers much more than the comics and employment sections. My mind was young and relatively uninformed so I was then a prime target for any cult, although quite a few then I saw were quite strange and I gave them quite a wide berth. But I wasn't as smart as I thought I was. Sooner or later, someone will always come around with a story that makes sense to you personally.

    What I now realise about them was that they did not disseminate their cults on enough of a gradient that would get many people looking. Rather, it make more shy away than would look. That is where LRH was more of a master with his deception.

    I would like to think people are getting smarter. Some are, but by looking around at all the other little cults they're getting caught up in despite all the credible information around that debunk them, they still get into it.

    Something is missing in the thinking of the general population these days.
  8. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    I've posted about this often because I have never met a human being that doesn't have an easily discoverable personal history of cringey credulity, beliefs and decisions that resulted in (amongst other things) a:
    • failed investment
    • failed marriage
    • failed business
    • failed career choice
    • failed romantic relationship
    • failed health-related "cure"
    • failed religious faith
    • failed personal friendship
    • failed child-rearing philosophy
    • failed life choices resulting in not having more happiness, health & prosperity.
    There are people in every direction one looks that pretend they have "risen above" pitifully stupid koolaid goofs you and I have made by having tried Scientology to see if it worked.

    THEY would never do such a disgracefully dumb thing, they sniff. There have been a few (unnamed) posters right here on ESMB who famously pretended that their own personal genius was such that THEY were able to do just the "GOOD PARTS" of Scientology. THEY, only had wins! LOL. THEY never were taken in, they assure us. Yet THEY are still talking about wholetrack implants, BTs and 5th invader forces.

    THEY are talking about L. Ron Hubbard as if he wasn't a sociopathic liar and con artist.

    THEY are talking about themselves as if they are not an easy mark for the hoax called Scientology.

    This kind of Dunning Kruger dumbness is not restricted to just participating in a cult.

    Having encountered a sufficient number of such geniuses, I finally reached the conclusion that they are quite obviously one or more of the following:

    1) Abysmally Arrogant.​

    2) Stunningly Stupid.​

    3) Disgracefully Dishonest.​

    Isn't all this pretense by the infallible just another Hubbardian hoax, where a human pretends superiority--having ascended to the advanced spiritual state of Homo Know-vis, where they Know so much more than everyone else? LOL

    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  9. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I think it's more than that. The emeter pinch test is pretty convincing to see the needle move upon recall that pinch.

    What follows is the rhetoric of you can go clear and OT, or actually the gradient approach.
    Type4_PTS and programmer_guy like this.
  10. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Good thread. Great posts on here.

    It seems everyone takes a dumb chance every once in a while to avoid personal confusion and lack of direction. When that confusion hits, we're easy marks. Con artists understand this and exploit that human weakness as well as personal emotions like fear, love and loyalty, which can temporarily overwhelm a person's ability to think and act rationally.

    Confusion and personal direction take a lot more to resolve than looking around and noticing things or spotting spots. :eyeroll: The confusion formula itself is a horrible misdirection intended to divert a person's attention from his or her own goals and life. It appears so innocent, doesn't it? But really, it's the con artist's first step - misdirecting personal dissatisfaction and assigning it to some external cause, then addressing and claiming to resolve the external cause and redefining the person's concepts and goals to align with the external cause.

    I'm glad I learned how brainwashing and propaganda work, though it would have been wonderful not to have learned it firsthand by being stupid. :duh: Like Bill said, I had no idea that this sort of evil and manipulation existed until afterward. Now I see things differently. The manipulating politicians, the manipulating super-rich, the manipulative wanna be rich that will lie, abuse and enslave anyone they wish and take credit for their work, too. Thieves.

    I see history differently, too, like Thomas Edison. :omg: (Link: ) Many, many of the people I thought were good in the past turned out to be deceptive, thieving assholes. I wonder how many of these people were paying some unknown genius peanuts while lavishing the person with praise, secretly taking personal credit for his or her work and getting rich from it, then booting him off to the side with some lame, vicious, imaginary offense? Many more than I ever thought before.

    I've lost many of my heroes. We are human, we need heroes. We need to aspire to higher things and to believe that someone, some time, somewhere, has achieved them. It helps motivate, it tells us it is possible. Joseph Campbell was an extraordinary writer and historian who delved deeply into that aspect of human nature. If you've never read, "The Power of Myth," it's a beautiful book that explains the importance of heroes throughout history.

    Unfortunately, our need and desire for heroes opens the door to con artists, opportunists, ripoff artists, the insatiably greedy and vain and a whole bunch of people with absolutely no qualms about hurting or deceiving anyone in any manner to get what they want.

    There are still plenty of heroes around. Maybe we should all become more aware of the real ones.

    And maybe when we feel confused or abused, that hero is a a friend who gives you a hug and listens but tells you to take charge of your own life and straighten it out on your own because your friend loves you.

    Friends are far too underappreciated.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
    Voodoo, tesseract, Type4_PTS and 4 others like this.
  11. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    It would also be pretty convincing if lovely Rita the e-meter maid (who is demonstrating that advanced scientific diagnostic device) ran the parlor trick this way. . .

    That's right just hold the cans in your hands
    without moving, okay? Great! Now we are going
    to prove to you that the Hubbard electropsychometer
    can conclusively evidence that pain causes the meter
    to react because it your reactive mind stores the harmful
    energy in something we call "charge".

    Wow, really? So what happens to me if I have any of that "charge"?

    Well! You've asked the million dollar question! LOL

    Wuttttt? Why did you laugh? What's this meter have to do
    with a million dollars?

    Oh, never mind that, the point is that we can
    scientifically demonstrate that you do have "charge"
    from the past that is ruining your life today.

    Wow, awesome. I'm ready!

    Okay, now, I want you to recall the pinch.

    What pinch?

    Oh my, I forgot to do that part. Well, no problem.
    Okay scratch that command. Here is the new command.
    I want you to recall 341 trillion years ago when you were
    kidnapped by aliens and thrown into a Gorilla Goal Implant.
    (Rita instantly looks down, studying the e-meter and
    eventually the needle moves a little bit twice)

    What? You mean when the needle moved? Yeah I saw that.
    But what does all that prove?

    Well, my friend, it proves that you have a lot of charge
    from trillions of years ago that is still affecting you!

    Whatttttt? You said gorillas? I don't get it.

    Dear your reactive mind reacted when I asked you
    to recall that Gorilla Goal Implant.

    I don't even know that that means, I don't recall anything
    I was just thinking WTF is this stupid gorilla shit?!

    So! You can see now that the e-meter is so precise! You recall that
    that the needle reacted not once but twice! That not only confirmed your
    charge from wholetrack gorilla implants, it also registered the second time on
    on the fact that you had a misunderstood on the term "gorilla goal implant"!

  12. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    And that will be $15000 thank you. Cash, check or credit card?
    HelluvaHoax! likes this.
  13. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    Yes, I've heard a lot of stories about Edison's big ego and how he liked to crush people with differing views.
    There's also some stories gathering about the Wright Brothers as to whether they were actually the first to fly, Kiwi Richard Pearse:

    was claimed to have flown about 9 months earlier. There are other even earlier claims. But it is all so close, I doubt that whoever did really would make a difference now. The debate is still ongoing. But another point is that Mr Wright became quite nasty with people who might have proven other people's involvement.

    Another one. General Douglas MacArthur. "Dougout Doug" his troops called him. Only saw him when the action was over.

    Rommel was another example. Brilliant general? Not really. He created more problems that he solved according to many accounts. He had some brilliance, but his human failings also got in the way as well.

    And so on. Ghandi was a wife beater, apparently. Churchill and Roosevelt were high functioning alcoholics. Hitler loved animals and was a vegetarian.

    Everyone has flaws. Surprising what a great public relations machine will do.
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
  14. cakemaker

    cakemaker Patron Meritorious

    I think we're wired to believe stupid shit.
    Eventually some stop believing or exchange it for different stupid stuff.
    But anyone who throws spilled salt over their shoulder, avoids walking under ladders or the 13th floor or bows down in front of wooden mannequins or spins a prayer wheel is just being human.
    tesseract likes this.
  15. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Seems we may be wired to believe stupid shit for reason.

    Maybe because we are wired to find the "path of least resistance" according to the pleasure/pain ratio.

    Isn't that why man has inexorably advanced towards simple and now complex machines, robotics, computers, artificial intelligence and beyond?

    To find the easy way, the fast way.

    Cheap thrills.

    Instant gratification.

    Political shortcuts via welfare and other entitlements.

    Cults offer it all in one easy package.

    So, people try it.

    The only thing at variance in all humans is HOW LONG IT TAKES THEM TO FIGURE OUT THEY WERE SCAMMED, by a cult or business or another trusted individual.

    That's it. Some figure it out sooner rather than later.

    There are no cultees and non-cultees. We are all, as humans, cult devotees.

    The all sectors of academia are littered with cults.

    Politics is jam packed with cults.

    Religions are by and large all wacky cults.

    Social justice movements are mostly hijacked by cults

    We are living in an ecosystem that is inundated with cults large and small.

    Very few escape it.

    So, I don't know if we are wired to be stupid, maybe we are just wired to be human.
    Operating DB likes this.
  16. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    We are wired generally to be leaders or followers. That's pretty much about it.

    The Marines have that saying..."Either lead, follow, or just get out of the way!"

    If we're not leaders, we're looking for someone to lead us (or follow). So that leaves us prone to anyone who can spout the right sort of bullshit that we can relate to, or people who really do want to lead us to a better place.

    Trouble is, we get caught up in our own biases and thoughts. Then someone just steps in like LRH or whoever and we're sold and fucked over.

    That's a nutshell, even for me.
    Operating DB likes this.
  17. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    The third type is the "just get out of the way type".
    Sometimes it takes having been a follower and mislead to realize that you are essentially a "get out of the way" type and that you'd never want the changes or hassles inherent with being a leader either.
  18. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    Yeah, I guess there's that too.... avoidance strategies?
    tesseract likes this.
  19. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Yeah, kind of what the hippie movement was about, not trusting the leaders enough to follow them off a cliff nor any desire to join them in their ranks. Kind of a self cleansing and self preservation attitude and process.
    And after being duped by the L. Ronathon many just want nothing to do with false leaders nor would they ever want to be one.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
    tesseract and Operating DB like this.
  20. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    I think the hippie movement was really kinda Marxist without admitting to it.

    But having said that, parts of it were okay, but there was a line in the 'okay' sand too.
    tesseract and JustSheila like this.