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Chick Corea, Heber Jentzsch, Ingo Swann, and Scientology's 1977 OT Summit!

Discussion in 'Tony Ortega' started by Smilla, Aug 4, 2012.

  1. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    Scientology always jumps to co-opt any abilities anyone may have - if they can juggle, it's because of Scientology. If they can cook, it's because of Scientology. In that sense, Scientology is a parasite.
  2. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    I remember him as a bubbly, bouyant type of personality, a very outgoing and friendly kind of guy. I had no idea that he was any kind of big deal in the psychic community as I'd found out years later. I once read that he's drawn a paisley design in magnetic iron filings inside of a safe during a demonstration of his abilities. I have to say that his abilities are inherant to him and have little or nothing to do with Scientology other than maybe giving him more confidence. After all, he paid good money for those abilities, they'd better be there for demonstration. But I'd say that he stands out in my mind as one of the most genuine people I ever met in Scientology. This is why I found the claims that some have expressed that he was sent to Scientology as part of some governmental spy mission to steal the methodologies and utilize them for military purposes so surprising.
  3. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    Whatever the truth, I really like that Ingo was willing to put his money where his mouth was and work with scientists, albeit scientists with a paranormal bias.

    I like how he says:

  4. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Stanford Research Institute experimental psychologist Keith Harary, and Russell Targ, a physicist also from Stanford, wrote a book titled 'Mind Race' (as in 'space race').


    It contains a section on the exploitation of psychic phenomena, or the promise of psychic phenomena, by cults.

    Both were well aware of Scientology, and had worked with Ingo Swann.

    From the book, 'Mind Race' (as in "space race"):

    "You won't find these groups listed under 'cults' in the Yellow pages. For income tax and public relations purposes, most refer to themselves as 'Churches'. But cults differ from traditional churches in several important ways...

    "In our society, a person who is beginning to experience emerging psychic abilities, or who is interested in doing so, has almost nowhere to turn for guidance. Anyone with a purely scholarly interest in Psi research can write to various laboratories or read the research reports. But this information probably will not be of much practical personal use...

    "This is the dilemma that leads many people to join cults in the first place. By accepting and exploiting psychic phenomena in a society that does not readily accept them, cults have effectively monopolized the subject of psi. They have exploited many people who are interested in learning about the area, and frightened many others away from ever considering the possibility...

    "People are often drawn into cults that claim to offer explanations for psychic functioning, but at great personal, emotional, and financial expense to their followers. We think that giving away your mind is too high a price to pay for psychic development...

    "For some people, the exposure to the possibility of developing their own psychic potential, which some cults appear to provide, may initially help certain individuals pay attention to areas of their own awareness that they might not otherwise consider exploring.

    "But prolonged exposure to any cult's treatment of psychic abilities may seriously restrict the way its initiates view psychic functioning. And it may keep them from fully developing their actual psychic potential...

    "Despite claims to the contrary by numerous factions, there is no evidence of an exclusive relationship between psychic functioning and any particular leader, doctrine , or way of life. Scientific evidence does strongly suggest that the ability to function psychically is a genuine human capacity which, for many people, seems to improve with practice."

    Some short videos. Rupert Sheldrake:

    Robert Monroe discusses his first out of body experience:
  5. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    Working with the "spooks" seriously spooked Ingo. I refer you to his know out of print book "Penetration" (out of print, but apparently available here: and his web site, where for example, in this article he outlines some of the reasons that "telepathic research" is a bit of a booby trap:

    Ingo walked the walk for 20 years at SRI. Another extreme talent in the Psychic Viewing field was the now legendary Pat Price (also a scientologist, and involved with the SRI research). It was said that he could read the words in the files in locked file cabinets, and his death in Vegas was mysterious (

    There is a story here, but as Ingo says, those that want telepathy also do not want YOU to have it.
  6. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    And the story goes, according to some Scientologists, that the IRS/CIA took over Scientology to keep the OT power to themselves. Fortunately, the OT levels have been available, "in the field," for thirty years, resulting in thousands of powerful Independent Scientology Operating Thetans.

  7. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    In YOUR mind.
  8. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    If psychic abilities can be satisfactorily demonstrated there must be other people who have them. If it is a case of inherent ability there will probably be others like Ingo who have been attracted to Scientology for similar reasons, which would also help explain the "OT mystique" and why some OTs seem damned ordinary, and others you just sort of believe they can help you out in a fix.

    I was married to an OT III for nearly twenty years without a hint of psychicness. The closest I got to believing maybe he could do something extranormal was I had just had a positive pregnancy test after we decided to have another child and had started trying to conceive. A few days later I started spotting and I was just devastated. "Isn't there something you can do?" I begged. "What good is a religion with no power. What good is a religion if you can't use it?" So he said, "Well, I'll see what I can do".

    Then he told me that what he thought was happening was that the ovary that had ovulated was trying to establish the pregnancy, while the other ovary had not received the message that I was pregnant, but it knew now and would stop trying to bring on my period. He also said he had gotten in comm with the embryo, and it was having a hard time in there but he told it we loved it and if it could just hang in there we would give it a good life. He thought everything should be fine after that.

    But later that night this force seemed to go right through my body with the word "Die!!" and then I just knew it was dead. The bleeding continued the next day, and I was able to stay home throughout the miscarriage which was good. They later did a scan to check that the sac was gone. In earlier years I wouldn't have even known that I was pregnant, but I still feel guilty, like I killed it, but I swear that wasn't me willing it to die. Years later I was privileged to go on a wonderful retreat run by the Catholic Church for women who were suffering post abortion trauma and that was quite healing for me, even though I wasn't a Catholic and hadn't aborted the baby I lost.

    I know it sounds stupid, but I still mourn that child sometimes, but then I heard about fetal cell microchimerism and I felt a lot better, like my child's DNA is still living on inside me. That comforts me for some reason, and makes me feel like my child is very close. It's a warm feeling for me.
  9. Veda

    Veda Sponsor


    1) is a description of what a fair percentage of outside the CofS Scientologists believe.

    2) is a description of what should have happened to these outside the CofS Scientologists, if the OT levels "delivered what they promised."
  10. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    Arguing Facts not in Evidence.

    1) What is the factual basis of this assertion?
    2) According to who? What is the factual basis of the asserted "thousands"?
  11. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    I've got you all riled up haven't I.

    Oh well.

    That wasn't what I was trying to do. :)

    Just giving some background so people won't be too caught up in the dubious conspiratorial oobleck on the net about this stuff.

    And, yes, if the OT levels worked, there would now be thousands of outside the CofS OTs.

    However, they didn't work.
  12. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    The point is that Scientoogy was very much a cult in the 1960s and 1970s.

    Many of of us, especially "public persons," may feel that we weren't really cultists. A review of old correspondence or old "Success Stories" or other Scientology related writings will disabuse us of that notion.

    This VV article is a reminder of the prevalent mind-set that enveloped even the more "advanced" and "public Scientologists" at the time.

    It was a cult, even then.


    "LRH Bust" tech and policy dates from 1963:

  13. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    They were calling Dianetics a cult back in 1951. So it's had the label from Day 2.
  14. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    That the truth about Scientology in a nutshell. Scientology becomes the shadow cast by a sickly, swinging, incandescent light, which swallows you inch by inch, piece by piece.
  15. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Wow, as a man this is all way more than I can fully comprehend but it does serve to explain why I have noticed a much larger biological connection between mothers and their offspring than fathers and their (supposed) offspring in my own family going back generations. I say supposed as my father had been switched on me and I was raised by a seething demon of a stepfather who was made to pretend to be my biological father, though he felt no connection with me on any level, or vice versa. I'm now in touch with my half-sisters and half-brother from my biological father's subsequent re-marriage and there are some perplexing dynamics at play all the way around. Many of the personality traits that I have that I treasured as being uniquely my own, and nothing like anyone else in the family I was raised in, are virtual cloning’s from my real father and his offspring, none of whom I met till I was 22 yrs. old. So how much "OTness" is biological and to what degree?
  16. Moosejewels

    Moosejewels Patron Meritorious

    Pat Price spoke at an "event" that I attended in the mid-70's. Talked to him briefly, and in generalities after the event wrapped up. Very interesting, convincing, and believable fellow. He spoke very openly about his experiences at SRI.
  17. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    In your opinion.

    Are you going to go all Xenu on me now, proscribing me to a dark and hidden corner of your universe for daring to NOT accept the reality box you posit to put people in?

    In some ways your posts, reeking of "Authority" and "Altitude" come across kinda like LRH on a bad day.

    This statement, for example, is logically inconsistent:
    "And, yes, if the OT levels worked, there would now be thousands of outside the CofS OTs."

    The first part says "If the OT levels work" and concludes with the statement "there would now be thousands of outside the CofS OTs."

    Can you explain how the one follows the other?
    Or is it just more Authoritarianism?
  18. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    The way I see it, very simply put, there is the being and the body. Both contribute to the person. Auditing addresses the being. It may also indirectly effect the body, as in stress-induced or psycho-somatic physical problems.

    Mark A. Baker
  19. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    1. The OT levels produce OTs.
    2. Thousands have done the OT levels.
    3. Therefor thousands of OTs have been made.

    The only problem here is that statement 1 is false and thus 3 does not follow.

    My belief is that everyone is OT. But just a wee bit running on auto...
  20. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    Yes, there is communication on a chemical level from the earliest days between a mother and her offspring. In my experience a father being present at the birth is also a huge factor in the father and child bond. It is interesting how much heredity comes into play with personality traits and with identical twins even life paths can be very similar although they have been separated from birth.