ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Featured Child abuse in the Sea Org

Discussion in 'Stories From Inside Scientology' started by Bea Kiddo, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    I was born in 1972 near Austin Texas. At that time, both of my parents were staff at Austin Org. Right after my 3rd birthday, my mother decided to join the Sea Org. November 1975. So I was in the Sea Org environment from Nov 1975 at age 3, up until I got SP declared out in May 2004.

    Obviously laws have changed from then until now. And I am sure there was plenty of law breaking in the time that I was a child in the CEO in LA.

    Let's see how this thread takes off or veers into an endless pit of diversion....

    There are plenty of stories of neglect of children, children being raised by slightly older children, short-staffed child care centers, all sorts of stuff. And from that, I guess they determined no children because they really did not have the facilities to deal with the neglect and lack of care. Maybe it was one of the right decisions they did make. Though this lead to the whole subject of abortions... a subject of many other threads that I will not get into right here.


    Legal or not, here is my point: Why the hell did the parents ignore the signs? Why did they not pick up their kids and walk away? Because they believe that the bigger picture and the job that they do is far more important than the children they leave for care. And they trust in the nannies to "make it go right".

    Where were the parents of the children put into the chain locker? And how about when I was in the CEO they locked up 30 or 40 kids in the basement because one of the nannies was suspected of molesting the kids. They would not let us out until someone started talking. Who would want to speak out like that? In front of all your friends talking about such personal things? WTF?

    How about 30 to 40 kids to one nanny?

    How about not seeing your parents for months or years at a time because they were sent out on mission? How about the parents being assigned to different sides of the U.S. and NO CHANCE of parenting?


    Let's see where this thread goes....
  2. Good twin

    Good twin Floater

    It's going to hell, Bea. As a public Scientologist / Mission staff member, I did absurd neglectful and abusive things to my kids. In the SO it is magnified. God bless the survivors.
  3. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    I still don't get it and it breaks my heart whenever I think about it and I too saw things I would never want to see again.

    One child drowned while I was in the SO and another almost died when he climbed into an abandoned fridge (the door was left on) but luckily he was found in time.

    The kids were like little lost, abandoned souls and I was happy (for the children) when it was announced that they were no longer allowed in the SO, it's the main thing about cults that makes my blood boil because they are given no choice.

  4. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    I'm sorry but unless you are cross-examined in a court of law, we should not accept that any of those incidents actually happened. Your word about what you witnessed is really not good enough. It doesn't matter how many other people claim to have witnessed similar things. You can not and should not claim that Scientology or Hubbard or the Sea Org neglected or abused children unless you have evidence other than your own testimony that would be accepted in a court of law or unless you subject yourself to cross-examination by a legal practitioner. That's just how we roll around here.
  5. I was also born in the early 70s, but my parents were already in the SO at the time. I remember when I was 7, my mother went on a garrison mission for 16 months in a different country, when she returned I almost didn't remember her. For many years I only saw my parents at family time, for about an hour each day, but more often than now, one or the other was not there due to some 'post emergency'. After a while, I think I was around 10 or 11, family time stopped. I think the worst thing about family time being cancelled, is they stopped sending dinner to the family berthing. As a result, unless I stole stuff, I would have porridge for breakfast with powdered milk, and 2 honey sandwiches to take to school for lunch (we went to a public school as there was no cadet school at this time), but I would have to save one of the sandwiches for my dinner, or go without. it was like that for about 2 years, until I was pulled out of school and put on the EPF against my will. I was told it was either the EPF or a boarding school far far away.

    There was a 'nursery' but if you were over 6, they really didn't care what you did. So I had no supervision, no structure and no help with homework. I think the worst thing was, because we were in public school, and most of our parents didn't have money for clothes, we were always in second hand crap that didn't fit and would be beat up for being poor. I had no idea how to handle it and the teachers thought of as 'those weird scn kids', and were usually no help. It would have been nice to have someone to talk to about that stuff. So that is my story and I'm sticking to it.
  6. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    I wish I knew what to say ... but I really don't.

  7. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    That's a tough tale, Chuck. I believe you, of course! I do think this constitutes neglect and therefore child abuse.

    At the risk of offending people who have such experiences, though, most of us who experienced Scientology did so as public or Class IV/V or mission staff. Things could be tough, there, too, but nothing like conditions for SO personnel or their children. Poverty was still often intense, even if income was high (all monies went to Church in one way or another for many of us). As an adult, I ate very little and was often on the verge of collapse because of it, certainly emotionally overwhelmed. I could be driven to tears simply by SMELLING food from a distance, at times, when I was on staff, but hid that from coworkers.

    My point is that SO kids, and sometimes staff member kids, suffered, but it was not the experience of the PUBLIC that this was going on. Where it was discovered, it probably caused "PR Flaps" that were dealt with one way or another (but not the actual problem of neglect). Making these stories KNOWN, and ideally AS THEY ARE HAPPENING, is critical to stopping them from occurring and closing down this criminal cult.
  8. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    Vivien: Born into Scientology - Mark Bunker

    A Childhood in Scientology - Mark Bunker

    EX-Scientology Kids: Jenna Miscavige, Astra Woodcraft 1/3

    EX-Scientology Kids: Jenna Miscavige, Astra Woodcraft 2/3

    EX-Scientology Kids: Jenna Miscavige, Astra Woodcraft 3/3

    Scientology Children Then and Now - Tory Magoo

    Tommy Gorman Born In The Cult Of Scientology
  9. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith Flunked Scientology

    You know, this stuff makes me want to leave this place too. I poured my heart and everything I had into raising my kids. I love them today and they love me. We were not perfect parents by any means, but those boys knew they were loved. It is almost beyond my ability to understand this stuff. It is so contrary to human nature, to nature.

    Last week I saw a cow licking its little calf in a field, all alone...little tiny calf I think must have been born premature. But that mom was right there when all the other cows had long gone.

    How can this be? What sort of monster was he that he didn't even mourn his own son? As I understand he was ticked off at the poor boy for besmirching HIS image. The insane thing here is that kids are the future; without them we are all doomed. DOOMED! "A baby is God's way of saying the world should go on."

    I am horrified.
  10. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron


    You're about 4 years older than my oldest child.

    '72 was wild times for the Austin Org...Burnet Road, the swan song of the Bellmaine's, the frenetic rise of Whit Whitford and Willie B.Wilson, Doc Westerman and Cecil Straecner were the budding future Whales.

    As to your question..."Why the hell did the parents ignore the signs?"...I have no answer. In retrospect, that's the exact same question I have about that Scn Era and forward up to this very day.

    Maybe part of the answer...and it's a plumb pitiful that the "Tech" says that the, "Bearing and Rearing of Children" is 1/2 of 1 of the "Eight Dynamics"...which equals about 6% of your life and the "Church", one way or another, demands that well over 50% of your life be devoted to "Going up the Bridge" (1st "Dynamic") and "Building/Supporting the Bridge" (3rd "Dynamic"), which functionally reduces "Rearing Children" to 3% (at best) of the focus of your life.

    Whadda F'd up Crock of Shit, recipe for disaster and abrogation of natural law and instinct.

    I've put up some Posts on ESMB over the last few years re Scn, SO and Children. It's a real "Hot" topic for me.

    Honestly, when I'm physically with, Skype with or think about my children I deep down inside feel almost overwhelming relief that I somehow managed to not F up and forsake their futures for the sake of "My Eternity and That of All Mankind".

    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  11. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    This is awesome. I am going to keep eating the popcorn. Yum.
  12. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader

  13. Out-Ethics

    Out-Ethics Patron Meritorious

    There are so many abuses in this cult but to a child is inexcusable. When I was supping I had this 13/14 yr old kid (can't recall his name) who was the son of the CO ASHO. Kid could not read. Didn't even know his ABCs but he placed on a study course like that was going to fix his education. I argued for the kid that he needs tutoring and needs to start at 1st grade reading level. Apparently that wasn't an option as either his parents couldn't afford or didn't have time. Probably both. Was told to M7 him. Right! Great example of how the Co$ applies TWTH.
  14. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thank you for sharing this with Us, Mr. Carmichael. :thumbsup::clap:

    I don't know how else to say this, Chuck...The shit you have shared with all of Us REALLY, EFFEN PISSES ME OFF!!!!:angry:

    I don't want to pry into your life and get too preachy but, if you break the circle of abandonment by self-indulgent indifference, I guaran-damn-tee you your children will not only thrive, you will experience for all your remaining days a most wondrous, unexplainable and unique feeling of being "Alive". :coolwink:

    My Very Best Wishes, :yes:

    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  15. anonomog

    anonomog Gold Meritorious Patron

  16. the board of inquiry thanks and commends BK for creating a thread to give intelligent accurate and honest examination of the facts and opinions involved with substandard conditions for children both shipboard and on land

    the m.sgt would like to know if there were children aboard vessels other than the apollo
  17. ojay na moolah

    when did a child drown?
  18. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    This is one of the CMO ED's from that Era that makes me wanna puke.

    You'd have to have privy access and spend some time in Senior "Management" and in Hisself's "Inner Circle" back then to get the full gist of exactly what this CMO Ed says.

    Not only does it say that Parents are NOT to "Parent" without approval, they must also go through the "Chain of Command" to get approval to "Parent". It says that WE...whomever the F what untrained, grammar school educated (at best) CMO Childless Adolescent is "WE" that day...will be the penultimate arbiter to determine how, where, when and for what your child will be "disciplined"...based solely on our interpretation and unwritten, transient and unrealistic protocals...and you (the parent) have no recourse. Your child is to be a credit to the SO, a resource thereto and valuable person as "WE" (CMO Childless Adolescent) arbitrarily determine

    I F'n got my kids outta there. It's very, very hard for me to understand why so many just handed over the most precious creation they will ever make to others that have not the slightest regard, understanding or reverence for their child's sovereign life.

    Damn, I hate "pointing fingers" at any parent. But, IMHO, being a parent is just not a biological act...It is the most fortuitous opportunity anyone will ever be accorded to know true Grace, Humility, Humor and Honor from the Joy, Pain, Laughter, Frustration, Fulfillment, Disappointment, Pride, Despair and Unconditional Love all of Us are Gifted at First Breath.

    I just don't know how someone can live in their own skin and sleep at night having done unto a helpless, trusting and loving other what they would not have done unto their self and forfeit a once in a lifetime treasure to curry the momentary favor of being thought as an "On Source" Scn.

    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013

  19. Hi Face, thanks and I feel you. I have 3 kids and I think they are going to be ok. I'm in my 40s now and although I sometimes can get pissed/sad if I think about my childhood too much, I am pretty much over it. It is interesting trying to keep a balance with my kids. Sometimes I will find myself in super 'spoil' mode, showering them with gifts for no apparent reason, but for the most I do my best to just let them be kids.
  20. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    I think there are several reasons that parents gave/give their children over to Hubbard/Scientology to do what they want with. And of course, people are individuals and their motives are individual.

    At the SP party this year, Steve Hassan said, you know, when he was in his cult if he'd been ordered to open fire on everyone at the party he would have done it there and then. I don't think Scientology had that same grip on me ever, but it is sobering to consider the question of where is your own line in the sand.

    Then there is also the question of emotion. You can tell a Scientologist the most horrific story of abuse, and - if it concerns somebody not currently in good standing with the cult - he or she will generally feel exactly nothing. If the person is within the cult but the abuse was perpetrated by the cult, they will wonder what that person did to pull it in, even if the person is a child and even if they acknowledge that it's a shitty thing to have happen. Sometimes they will be so upset about what happens to another person that they will leave. Sometimes they will draw a line in the sand at that point. Of course when hearing the news or a sad story unrelated to Scientology a Scientologist is capable of feeling as much as anyone else, but they may still consider that the person or group "pulled it in somehow" or be otherwise less sympathetic.

    But the die-hard Scientologist will harden their heart to any of that. The die-hard Scientologist does not feel pity. They have "no sympathy", and the auditor listens to others "as if with sympathy". Compassion is not on the Scientology emotional tone scale. It is not a valid emotion. Like love, it may as well not exist.

    That definition and more interesting stuff on the biological basis of compassion here....

    And a lot more interesting stuff, of course, in wikipedia.

    The bullbaiting of the training routines is as well-designed to eliminate an emotional response as confusing the cult member with contradictory data is designed to instil obedience and compliance.

    All in all, the astounding thing is not that most Scientologists offer their children as lambs to the slaughter to a voracious cult with an insatiable appetite for raw meat. The astounding thing is that deep evolutionary urge towards survival of the fittest within us that enables some people to override the deep layers of cult programming and rise above it to save themselves or their children. (Hopefully both). The astounding thing is that some cult members do still put their children before their cult in the end, or make a last stand on values nearly forgotten. That's how it seems to me, anyway.