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Child of Scientologists: hi

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by learningconcern, Jun 20, 2019.

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  1. learningconcern

    learningconcern New Member

    hi,
    I'm here because my parents are current scientologists, they are not ex-scns and i am not one at all

    but i am doing my own research on scientology because they are completely taken in by it
    training and working and getting educated by the church
    so i found this forum

    scientology has visably helped one of my parents when nothing else did, because they truly believed it worked and i have seen really positive effects

    but i am increasingly concerned and disenfranchised with the way they see the word of lrh as god and the usual red flag warning signs of cultism beginning

    not because they cannot leave but because they would not choose to. everything theyve believed in up until this point has made them perfect candidates for the scn doctrinesm and they are in full belief of the church's policies, procedures, and expectations

    i so far have been really encouraging and curious and i listen and smile and nod and ive visited their church and met some people. i took the personality test, got mail, got emails. i was proud they had something.

    i was taken in by the seemingly interesting alternative and functional thing that was bastardised by mass media who "doesnt want the best for us"
    in a damaged world scn offers itself up as a total opposing force for the wrongs of the world

    abberation is a common term in their house used to describe things
    they are using more and more lingo the higher they go
    but one of them was close to clear and told they were going faster than average and doing so well
    all the self affirming praise for someone insecure
    promises that the damage will be healed and then...results! because guess what, theyre doing better
    nicer house, socializing, jobs ......but all dependent on the church

    they would be delighted if i were to involve myself and ive been really encouraged to, but since doing my research and becoming sure that i would never choose to be a scn i give noncommital responses. ive never said, "no."

    ive had some proof of some of the stories i keep hearing from so called "SPs" ... scientologists visiting the house, when living elsewhere driving across states to check on them when they were taking a break from things... $50 and less a week for working but receiving certain processes for free...

    hallunications and thigns theyve seen and felt in sauna and auditing that ive read so much about...
    promises of being flown out to flag, reaching clear, making more money when things go ideal, how the money comes back to you after donating, how pay below minimum wage is good because its based on a real ethics system thats not dependent on the us economy... it upsets me

    i cant talk to them about this and i try not to think about it and writing this is making me anxious
    i would be shut down if i were to say anything against their Truths
    and i would be scared of being labelled SP

    they promise they know me and love me when i disagree with other things we have different beliefs on klots of little things that causes some conflict and things are always okay because theyre my parents
    but i do not know what would happen on this subject and i dont want to find out, i dont
    i think this would break their heart if they knew i was feeling like this
    i diont know if im making a good moral choice talking about this

    but i guess i want advice. or someone to talk to. assurance. or anything from someone that understands from the inside.

    thanks
     
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  2. cakemaker

    cakemaker Patron Meritorious

    Thanks for reaching out. You'll find many different opinions on what you should do.

    If you currently have a good relationship with your parents, the important thing is to maintain that. I wouldn't tell them that you're researching scientology or LRH and I wouldn't start being critical of their life choices. If, however, their path is destructive to them financially or with other members of the family, then it may be that you have to speak up.

    Learn about the full picture. Obviously Scientology has some beneficial aspects that bring and keep people in but it also has a highly destructive and deeply corrupt side. You can go indefinitely by staying under the radar. Again, if there's love between you and your parents, don't mess it up.
     
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  3. learningconcern

    learningconcern New Member

    thank you so much for reading and taking the time to reply.
    i agree that whats most important is our relationship - thats why this is so scary, as though that could just be ruined - by what? by belief?
    i dont know what would happen, but, if theres no need for me to risk it and try and find out, then yes, i think i will be happy enough to just keep the peace. i wonder what the future will look like as things progress but i suppose nobody can predict that.

    thank you again for your logical opinion and your experienced advice, really.
    it honestly feels good to have someone just knowing about/validating the situation im in.
     
  4. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Welcome!!!

    You've come to a good place or you to be...

    I'm William Birdwood, a trained auditor and staff veteran who can vouch for the finer aspects of the study and as well has bitter experience of the darker side.

    The first thing I would warn you of is not to be overly outraged at stories you read. There are very real abuses in CoS but many of the worst critics are less than honest

    Tell us, how old are you?

    You give the impression of being on our own, no longer dependent on your parents; a most favorable circumstance for maintaining good will with the old ones w/o being drawn in to the circus...
     
  5. learningconcern

    learningconcern New Member

    thank you... nice to meet you! i'm trying not to give away much thats personal/changing my typing just to be cautious. i dont know if my parents will ever search for opinions from the other side - if they do, id rather they dont find me.

    can i ask, are you willing to say which critics you feel are being dishonest? there are lots of very obvious names out there now who have publicly denounced scn. there are tons of books, blogs, interviews... and, assuming youre of course independent of the church hence being on this site, do you identify as a scientologist at all, now?

    im in my twenties, yes, living w/o them. we have always been very close though so i like to visit often. i dont see the daily aspects of their lives as scientologists, of course, but ive previously asked lots of questions and gotten explanations and such... so it might seem odd that im suddenly "not interested". its all things im suddenly having thinking about now ive heard the other side.
     
  6. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Many of us have had our family relationships totally ruined and if you can just continue to cruise along without provoking any situation that would force your parents to choose between you or the cult it would be for the best.

    It's awful to even imagine that they would choose the cult over you (and hopefully they wouldn't) but an awful lot of people have done just that ... and @Clay Pigeon is very wrong to tell you otherwise (he is one of very few around here that still thinks scientology is a good thing).

    Please don't feel guilty about chatting here about this ... if it helps you then you have done the right thing and as an adult you have every right to investigate and do some research of your own ... just be a bit careful about giving your identity away (don't answer questions if you feel uncomfortable about them).


    :fromme:
     
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  7. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    I want to echo what Cakemaker said. If your parents learn that you are researching Scientology on the internet, then that will end up becoming known to the local Scientology organisation ("org"), and they will then be told to 'handle' your perceived criticism or opposition to Scientology. That will only cause problems for your relationship with your parents, and ultimately it could escalate into the church forcing them to choose between their relationship with you, and with the church.

    It's much better to just maintain a friendly aloofness when it comes to them discussing Scientology with you, like you seem to have been doing already. You're willing to listen, smile, let them know that all they are saying sounds good, but your body language tells them that you are not really interested in participating in it yourself. In other words, you're not an enemy or critic of the church, you're just an innocent by-stander with no real interest either way. That's the sort of appearance you should be looking to give. That way, you should be able to maintain a good relationship with them.

    Where it would get difficult would be if it became clear to you that their involvement with Scientology was becoming damaging to their lives, finances etc. Then you'd be forced to choose whether to voice your concerns. That could then become tricky. But as it is at the moment, it sounds like you are playing it right. But whatever you do, don't mention that you have been reading about it online. If you do, it will set off red flags in their minds.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
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  8. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    If you want to continue to be interested in what they are doing, asking questions, etc, then go ahead. Just be aware of two things:

    (1) The more interest you show, the more likely they are to start pressuring you to get involved in the church.
    (2) If your interest includes questions like "I've read on the internet that X, Y and Z happens in the church", that will set off alarm bells for them.

    So if you are going to continue asking them questions, I suggest you also kind of make it clear that you yourself are not interested in joining, you just want to know what they are getting up to. Also, don't make it sound like you have been reading stuff on the internet, or it will strain your relationship with them.

    ETA: I don't know whether you are aware of this, but the church is ever-vigilant for signs that a family member or associate of a Scientologist is criticising the church. If it becomes known to them that, say, someone's son is voicing concerns about their membership in the church, then they will often be pulled off of whatever course or auditing they are currently doing, and told to do a special course, called the PTS/SP Course (Potential Trouble Source/Suppressive Person Course). You already know what an SP is. A PTS is a person CONNECTED to an SP. If you start criticising the church to them, the church will label THEM as PTS (and you will be viewed as potentially an SP), and insist that they do the PTS/SP course, which indoctrinates them on how to handle SPs (i.e., people like you who are voicing concerns about Scientology to them).

    It will mess up your relationship with your parents if that happens (it's DESIGNED TO, this is how they start to insulate their members from the real world).
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  9. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I don't like to point fingers and just give a general warning but in general the true and honest critics recognize that there is substance to the appeal of Hubbard's work and as cultish as CoS has made itself it is yet worthy of recognition as a church. The honest critics don't engage in emotional arson and the bad critics delight in it. I'm certainly not going go pointing fingers at any of my cherished and esteemed colleagues on his board but if you're going to do much reading here you will probably better off if you know that the poster using the avatar HelluvaHoax is the product of an unfortunate mating between a syphylitic Patagonian dwarf and a cross-eyed hyena.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  10. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Another thing you should be aware of. Scientology is not just a group to join where you handle some problems that you are having with life. It becomes EVERYTHING to a committed Scientology. The real world becomes this dirty, degraded place in Scientologists' minds, and Scientology is the ONLY solution for digging man (who is an immortal spirit) out from the dwindling spiral of existence in which he has been trapped for trillions of years.

    Your parents won't just see Scientology as something that can help you. They will see it as the only way of saving you from endless future lifetimes of pain and suffering. So if you show interest in the subject, they will see it as their mission to save you, much like a Christian might see it as their duty to help save you by bringing you to Christ.
     
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  11. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I think auditing and auditor training are good things

    I think Dianetics is a good thing

    My jury is still out on scientology
     
  12. learningconcern

    learningconcern New Member

    seriously, thank you for your words. this is such a big comfort to me.

    i have read this in my travels online... this is what leads to disconnection, from the stories ive seen, and yes, this is absolutely what i want to avoid... its kinda sad that i cant address my concerns. this drags up all the cult-like feelings, that theres all this pussyfooting around thats necessary otherwise i will face reprecussions by association. its damn curious how things get to this point so quickly where theres outcome this to consider.
    thank you for this.
    one parent joined before the other and so i remember me and my other parent showed a lot of interest in this giant life shift as this new and intriguing thing that was helping them turn their life around. it restored their relationship and made home happier. the first scn parent really encouraged the other who then joined willingly but motivated by what seemed like just pure positivity. i remember us feeling weird the first time scns drove to our house to check up on the first parent, before the second got involved, there was this little panic button that got pressed - like, "oh, the stories are true!! scientologists are outside!! they drove so far because they didnt answer their calls, how persistent." but then, of course, any red flags were ignored by 2nd parent in favor of this new life for them, the job, the house, the education. and i showed just as much interest when they then got involved because i was so PROUD of them for doing something to better their situation. that's what i thought was happening. i hadn't questioned much. and it made sense that all the anti-scn STUFF out there was all just bullshit, it fit my parents' narrative of the world that id been given from them too, that MSM attacks that which helps The People and... its a whole thing. definitely, i experienced "pressure" when i WAS so bright-eyed and curious about it. when i knew nothing, i wanted to know what was making them feel good and move further away from where i lived. im reeling it back, as you know.
    its a balance. thank you for the serious advice, im going to do my best maintaining that aloofness going forward without a doubt
     
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  13. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Not everyone shifts into that "True Believer" profile. In fact most public people are usually pretty much laissez-faire about other peoples beliefs.
     
  14. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    You have every right to your beliefs and I've never said otherwise Birdy ... but you also know that the culture of the cofs is vicious and absolutely black and white when there is the slightest sniff of dissention ... and there is no way I will let you tell someone who has come here with serious concerns that it is anything but that.

    Please don't try to make this thread about you.
     
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  15. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    It will do my street cred. no favours on this board saying this, but the fact is that people DO get gains in Scientology. There is improvement to be had from Scientology training and auditing, especially the low-to-mid-level stuff. I think it's fair to say that Clay Pigeon is regarded by some on this board as a bit of a Scientology apologist (though he has made it clear he is not a supporter of the Church). But I have to say that I agree with him when he says that some critics, who have perhaps wasted decades in the church, do not give a balanced opinion of the subject with the aim of being truthful, but rather have a party line to sell, born of the decades of their lives that they wasted in the church.

    How you approach Scientology as a subject of discussion rather depends on what your objective is. If your objective is something like that of a philosopher, or a historian trying to give an objective description of the past, then you will tend to admit that Scientology does have a core in it that is fascinating, and that can be useful in a person's life. If, on the other hand, you are someone who was in the Sea Organisation for 30 years, and wasted the best years of your life chasing the state of OT, and now views that time, with some bitterness, as wasted, then your objective is going to be to try to ensure that others don't fall into that same trap. Being objective and totally honest then becomes less important than helping to steer people away from the mistakes that you made.

    I tend more towards an interest in the truth (my involvement in Scientology was not entirely without cost, but nor was it entirely without benefit). I just wanted to add this to Clay Pigeon's assertion that some critics are not entirely honest. Though I can't presume to put words into Clay Pigeon's mouth, I suspect he would not disagree with my characterisation of what he probably meant by that.
     
  16. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Yes, that may well be true of a public Scientologist, Birdie. But when they report to the org that their relative has been reading stuff online that is critical of Scientology (and they surely will, for it will come up in sec checks, O/W write-ups, ethics or qual investigations of them the next time that they are BIs about something, etc) then it becomes a PTS/SP situation. The next time a Sea Org mission arrives in the org, and decides to sit every public Scientologist down in front of an e-meter and ask them about them or their associates looking at anti-Scientology websites, it will come up.

    So, how laissez-faire public Scientologists themselves are about one's attitude towards their religion, whilst relevant, will not always be the determining factor of how tolerant they are allowed to be in practice. Once the org gets involved, they have to toe a party line.
     
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  17. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Board Rules:

    Treat others with respect.

    You are to respect every other user on the board despite any personal, religious and political differences. The following will not be tolerated:

    Personal insults
    Ad hominems
    Threats or promotion of violence.


    Well, let's see ...
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
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  18. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Wasn't Birdy only briefly involved with Scientology and since that time, decades ago, been a transient living on the street and posting at the pubic library?

    There's little connection between his views on Scientology and objective realty.

    I suspect that, if he can, he'll ruin this thread as he has many others. It's a shame.
     
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  19. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    I don't know what Birdy's current circumstances are but I hope things have improved for him. I do know that he has a heart of gold and a very funny SOH. I doubt that HH would take offence at being called 'the product of an unfortunate mating between a syphilitic Patagonian dwarf and a cross-eyed hyena' ... he's far more likely to laugh.

    I'm pretty sure the reason many of us are still here at least in part, is for people like @learningconcern so yes, I also hope the thread doesn't get trashed (by anyone).
     
  20. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    [​IMG]
     
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